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I challenge you HARDCORE to a head to head debate on this trade !!!
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Snowman
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Iceland
2/15/2004  11:55 PM
No bullshyte, just straight facts on this trade, the players involved, the effect on the team !!! Bring it dawg !!!!
What does DICK CHANEY & DON CHANEY have in common ?? They both accidentally fell into a job they don't deserve & really suck at doing it !!!! Both need to be fired !!!
AUTOADVERT
Snowman
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Iceland
2/16/2004  12:08 AM
FACT #1 - KVH was a very valuable player on this team, its not everyday you have a guy that can get you 18pts & 8rebs for his career and he is still only 27yrs old !!! FACT #2 - KVH may have a bad scoring game but he always came away with atleast 7rebs !!! FACT #3 - Everyone says KVH is not clutch, well i remember him winning some games for us this year because he was clutch, remember the CAVS game and he was hot at the end of the HORNETS game but Anderson turned the ball over and Marbury didn't feed the hot hand !!! FACT #4 - The chemistry was really good at this point with the team, now we start all over again with just 30+ games to get it together !!! FACT #6 - TT gets almost equal money with 1 more year on his contract than KVH but produces less than KVH !!! FACT#7 - TT is lazy on defense, now KVH may not play defense well but its not because of lack of effort !!! TT shows no effort on defense and that is worst !!! FACT#8 - I am a KNICKS fan first and formost so i will embrace this trade with open arms but their is such a thing as " OVER DOING IT " !!! ZEKE may have done just that but disturbing the rythem of this squad in the middle of the playoff run !!! ( i love zeke don't get me wrong ) #9 - The type of player TT is is the same as MILES just that MILES is a whole lot cheaper !!! And finally FACT #10 - I HOPE WE WIN IT ALL TO SHUT US ALL UP !!!! KNICKS FOR LIFE !!!
What does DICK CHANEY & DON CHANEY have in common ?? They both accidentally fell into a job they don't deserve & really suck at doing it !!!! Both need to be fired !!!
Snowman
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Iceland
2/16/2004  12:11 AM
Think about it, we gave up KVH's 17pts / 8rebs as well as a 2nd rd pick for TT and NAZR ??? I must wait til the end of the season before i criticize this
What does DICK CHANEY & DON CHANEY have in common ?? They both accidentally fell into a job they don't deserve & really suck at doing it !!!! Both need to be fired !!!
nyvector16
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2/16/2004  12:13 AM
TT is not an upgrade over Van Horn...
BUT here are the positives of this trade:
1. TT is a better ball handler
2. TT is quicker
... previous two positives make TT a better fit into our system
3. Nazr is a HUGE upgrade at the 5 spot (not a blockbuster upgrade but still can be considered a nice acquisition due to lack of talent available at this position)
3. Nazr is quicker than anything we had before at that position making him fit into our system better than Mutombo
4. Nazr is a true center who bangs down low for his offense as oppose to Doleac who was more of a Spot up shooter (Shooter is nice to have but our need was for a low post banger and that need was addressed)
All these reasons make us an all around better team... than we were before... as I said before.. Basketball is a team sport.. all 5 players work together to run an offense and defense.

The players we got fit our system better than the players we gave up.
It can be argued that the indivudual player we gave up at the 3 is better than what we got in return... that is true...
But as a team.. .we are better...

And finally... these two guys are coming from two teams in two different situations that did not compliment their skills... Our team compliments their skills better than their previous teams. Do not be surprised if their stats improve once they learn our system...

One final point... Money is not any issue as we will not be players in free agency for a long long time... Cutting payroll won't reduce ticket prices or get us any closer to signing a big time free agent for the next 3 to 4 years... we are building to win it all as soon as possible... Any arguement based on fiscal responsobility is baseless...
Snowman
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Iceland
2/16/2004  12:20 AM
NYVECTOR i see your point on NAZR but we could have gotten him easily without giving up KVH !!! The hawks would have taken DOLEAC straight up on that deal !!!! As far as ball handling & TT, well yes he is a better ball handler but why would i need KVH to handle the ball when i have MARBURY, WILLIAMS & PENNY to do that ???
What does DICK CHANEY & DON CHANEY have in common ?? They both accidentally fell into a job they don't deserve & really suck at doing it !!!! Both need to be fired !!!
Snowman
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Iceland
2/16/2004  12:25 AM
What is the better front line: C=DEKE / PF=RASHEED / SF=KVH ( KT is the 6th man ) or C=DEKE / PF=KT / SF=TT ( NAZR is the 6th man ) ???? I feel that WALLACE will be a knick uniform next season regardless !!!
What does DICK CHANEY & DON CHANEY have in common ?? They both accidentally fell into a job they don't deserve & really suck at doing it !!!! Both need to be fired !!!
gunsnewing
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2/16/2004  12:25 AM
just doleac wouldn't make it work. Doleac gets 1mil Nazr gets 5mil.
Snowman
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Iceland
2/16/2004  12:27 AM
GUNNY i would have tossed in the polish center we got in the marbury trade or something but it could have worked !!! Do you think the 2nd rd pick was necessary ???
What does DICK CHANEY & DON CHANEY have in common ?? They both accidentally fell into a job they don't deserve & really suck at doing it !!!! Both need to be fired !!!
nyvector16
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2/16/2004  12:27 AM
If your arguement is we should have pulled a Doleac for Nazr trade without giving up Van Horn...
I can't argue with that...
I think we could have packaged Van Horn with Williams and a Second Rounder for something better...
but that's just my opinion..
I try to stay positive.. as this team means more to me than any other team in any other sport... lol



*** If we had only kept Sprewell... We'd have a very very indimidating squad right now...

[Edited by - nyvector16 on 02/16/2004 00:32:32]
bigblitz2001
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2/16/2004  12:29 AM
Posted by Snowman:

NYVECTOR i see your point on NAZR but we could have gotten him easily without giving up KVH !!! The hawks would have taken DOLEAC straight up on that deal !!!! As far as ball handling & TT, well yes he is a better ball handler but why would i need KVH to handle the ball when i have MARBURY, WILLIAMS & PENNY to do that ???

Snowman,

Anyone can pull up a stat sheet and say the knicks shouldnt have traded KVH for TT, but that is not doing this trade justice.

DO you really want H20, KVH, KT and Doleac on the floor with Steph shooting jumpers. Thats 4 jumpshooters, IS this a well balanced BBall team in your opinion. Also which one of these players are gonna run the break with Steph. Come on Man KVH and H20's game and personality are too similar. If you wanna make the playoffs fine, if you want to BEGIN to build a championship team then KVH had to go. And it aint like you could trade him for anything better NO ONE in the NBA wants KVHs contract.
Snowman
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Iceland
2/16/2004  12:32 AM
NYVECTOR then we do agree !!! I know we could have gotten more for KVH than TT !!! This my point on this whole debate !!! I would have felt better if we did the WILLIAMS & HARRINGTON for MILES trade rumor !!! I too love the knicks so thats why i'm not mad at ZEKE for doing what he thinks is best, i just think we could have either kept KVH or gotten someone better but to trade him away for a lesser player is wierd !!!
What does DICK CHANEY & DON CHANEY have in common ?? They both accidentally fell into a job they don't deserve & really suck at doing it !!!! Both need to be fired !!!
Snowman
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Iceland
2/16/2004  12:35 AM
BIG this is just my opinion but i bet UTAH would have taken him off our hands !!! We could have picked up KEON CLARK & OSTERFAG ( cut osterag after trade ) !!! Utah would have jumped all over that
What does DICK CHANEY & DON CHANEY have in common ?? They both accidentally fell into a job they don't deserve & really suck at doing it !!!! Both need to be fired !!!
Rich
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2/16/2004  12:36 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/16/sports/basketball/16KNIC.html

...

In Indiana, Isiah Thomas had great success helping Jermaine O'Neal and Ron Artest blossom into stars, and he believes he can help Tim Thomas do the same in New York.

"When you make a trade for a player, you always try to imagine how the player would be in your surroundings, in your environment, under your tutelage," Isiah Thomas said. "I'm confident that if Tim is willing to work and willing to listen, we can help him reach the potential that he has."

Despite his underachievement, Tim Thomas brings some advantages to the Knicks. He is more athletic than Van Horn, and he is a true small forward who excels in the open court. His running ability should mesh nicely with Marbury. Although not as good an outside shooter as Van Horn, he can get hot from beyond the 3-point arc. Whether Thomas has the mental toughness or the work ethic to reach his potential remains to be seen.
nyvector16
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2/16/2004  12:37 AM
Well.. we do agree in most respects of this arguement Snowman...
But... although I would rather have KVH as my teamate in a 2 on 2 pick up game.. Tim Thomas is more of the type of player to go on breaks with Marbury and run the floor.
In previous games.. Marbury has not just been out-running the opposition but alot of his teamates as well..
We have to bring in talent that compliments our team core which cannot be argued IS Marbury...
Snowman
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Iceland
2/16/2004  12:38 AM
A trade of HARRINGTON & DOLEAC for NAZR would have worked !!! Trade ID #1509565 !!! Both HARRINGTON & DOLEAC are in the final year of thier contract which is what atlanta wanted !!!
What does DICK CHANEY & DON CHANEY have in common ?? They both accidentally fell into a job they don't deserve & really suck at doing it !!!! Both need to be fired !!!
Rich
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2/16/2004  12:39 AM
Posted by Snowman:

A trade of HARRINGTON & DOLEAC for NAZR would have worked !!! Trade ID #1509565 !!! Both HARRINGTON & DOLEAC are in the final year of thier contract which is what atlanta wanted !!!

Atlanta didn't want Harrington. They only want players with ending contracts. Harrington has another year after this one.

[Edited by - Rich on 02/16/2004 00:40:10]
Snowman
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Iceland
2/16/2004  12:42 AM
Atleast KVH proved his mental toughness to play in NY while we must hope TT can handle it after all he couldn't the MILWAUKEE pressure cooker !! lol... But yes he will run with marbury but as jersey has proven that in the final rounds of the playoffs running is not enough, shooting becomes a factor especially if you don't have a post up game like we don't !!!!
What does DICK CHANEY & DON CHANEY have in common ?? They both accidentally fell into a job they don't deserve & really suck at doing it !!!! Both need to be fired !!!
Snowman
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Iceland
2/16/2004  12:44 AM
RICH your wrong bro, HARRINGTON & DOLEAC has the same contract, check REALGM.COM
What does DICK CHANEY & DON CHANEY have in common ?? They both accidentally fell into a job they don't deserve & really suck at doing it !!!! Both need to be fired !!!
Snowman
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Iceland
2/16/2004  12:48 AM
Everyone has shown up but HARDCORE !! LOL... I shall go back to calling you SOFTCORE !!! lol... Now stop make those movies and debate dawg !!! lol...
What does DICK CHANEY & DON CHANEY have in common ?? They both accidentally fell into a job they don't deserve & really suck at doing it !!!! Both need to be fired !!!
Armondaone
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2/16/2004  12:54 AM
you know the funny part about this thread is, that in the beginning of the season kvh got bashed on the daily and people wanted to trade kvh for a bag of rocks. Now the arguement is about how we should have kept kvh. with that in mind maybe TT will work out better (you can't really argue with zekes chocies so far). All i want now is to get sheed and lose our scrubs.

[Edited by - armondaone on 02/16/2004 00:54:49]
I challenge you HARDCORE to a head to head debate on this trade !!!

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