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Owners Will Push For $45 Million Hard Cap Once Lockout Begins...?
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Moonangie
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6/29/2011  1:04 PM
According to NBA executives familiar with the league’s strategies, once the lockout is in place, the owners will push for a hard salary cap of $45 million, the elimination of guaranteed contracts and ask that the players swallow a 33 percent salary cut.

The concessions made in recent weeks, including the “flex cap” of $62 million and a guarantee of $2 billion in annual player payroll, will be off the table.

If this seems certain to guarantee the loss of the entire 2011-12 season, it is because there are owners who think it is necessary for the long-term viability of the league.

Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/214454/Source_Owners_Will_Push_For_$45_Million_Hard_Cap_Once_Lockout_Begins#ixzz1QgYizyIM

If this has any truth to it and the season is lost, does that mean CP3 will be a FA or does he have to actually play the final year of his contract, regardless of which calendar year it is?

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Childs2Dudley
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6/29/2011  1:17 PM
Besides the fact that the lockout is bull****, we as a franchise are cursed. We finally get good players and the NBA decides to stop playing. If we lose an entire season it will be a very bad thing for our franchise. Avery, very bad thing.
"Our attitude toward life determines life's attitude towards us." - Earl Nightingale
OasisBU
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6/29/2011  1:24 PM
Childs2Dudley wrote:Besides the fact that the lockout is bull****, we as a franchise are cursed. We finally get good players and the NBA decides to stop playing. If we lose an entire season it will be a very bad thing for our franchise. Avery, very bad thing.

Why? Amare needs to rest his body so it might not be as bad as you think. I do believe that any stoppage in play is bad for the league in general but why do you think it is especially bad for the Knicks?

"If at first you don't succeed, then maybe you just SUCK." Kenny Powers
crzymdups
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6/29/2011  1:47 PM
The owners are being dicks here. This lockout could have been avoided. They'll set back the league for years.
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Childs2Dudley
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6/29/2011  1:52 PM
OasisBU wrote:
Childs2Dudley wrote:Besides the fact that the lockout is bull****, we as a franchise are cursed. We finally get good players and the NBA decides to stop playing. If we lose an entire season it will be a very bad thing for our franchise. Avery, very bad thing.

Why? Amare needs to rest his body so it might not be as bad as you think. I do believe that any stoppage in play is bad for the league in general but why do you think it is especially bad for the Knicks?

He doesn't need a year and a half to rest up his body. He isn't getting any younger. We need him in his prime.

"Our attitude toward life determines life's attitude towards us." - Earl Nightingale
knicks1248
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6/29/2011  1:56 PM
I cant see why this isn't a case of, you get one, I get one..you cant have everything in negotiaions, both sides will take some kind of a loss no matter how this ends up..

With that, here are summaries of the recent proposals and issues for each side in this negotiation that appears to be going nowhere.

Owners' proposal:

• "Flex cap" of $62 million: This would raise the cap from the current $58 million, thus allowing teams to exceed the cap subject to certain (undefined) restrictions. The exact levels of the salary floor and ceiling, as well as which exceptions would be part of the new system, have not been detailed. However, the basic idea is that the flex cap is similar to the current system but incorporates a firm upper limit (and thereby eliminates the luxury tax).

• $2 billion-a-year guarantee: Owners are proposing to guarantee players $2 billion a year in salary and benefits for the duration of a proposed 10-year CBA. This represents a modest decline from the current $2.17 billion but allows owners to capture most of the gains from a growth in income expected over the course of the next 10 years, especially when new television rights deals are signed in the next five years. This would net the players a declining share of basketball-related income (BRI), estimated (by the players) to go from the current level of 57 percent to about 40 percent in 10 years.

• Keep escrow money: Owners want to keep 8 percent of 2010-11 salaries that has been escrowed in case the players' BRI share went over the 57 percent limit. Players view this as unreasonable, since they consider it money already earned.

• Reduced contract length: Owners are proposing a maximum contract length of three years for players signing with new teams (reduced from five today) and four years for players remaining with their current teams (down from six today). This might be more palatable to the players now that the owners have backed off their demand for unguaranteed deals; the deals will be less crippling with fewer years.

• Removal of sign-and-trades: This is another measure aimed at keeping players on their current teams. Presently, players can take advantage of "Bird rights" by signing with their current team and leveraging a trade, allowing them to receive the six-year deal with 10.5 percent increase from their current team.

Furthermore, the team losing the player usually receives some sort of compensation. For example, both Toronto and Cleveland received late first-round picks and large trade exceptions from Miami for Chris Bosh and LeBron James, respectively. And New York received three players, a second-round pick and a trade exception from Golden State in David Lee's sign-and-trade. With a hard cap, there is no use for this.

• Reducing rookie contracts: This is a lower priority for the owners and certainly not the issue that it has become in the NFL. Owners will seek lower rookie contracts, most notably for first-round picks, but probably not push this too hard.

• The expensing of franchise acquisition costs in teams' operating budgets: The dispute over the fundamental state of the league is principally over how much of the league's claimed $380 million loss is a result of acquisition costs, debt service, etc.

• Length of the agreement: The owners want a 10-year deal, while the players want only five -- which would coincide with the league's new TV deals.


Players' proposal:

• $500 million pay cut: Players are proposing a reduction of their income by $100 million a year for the next five years. They have made this concession to reduce the percentage of BRI that is guaranteed to them. However, they do not want change to the fundamental features of the current system: a soft cap, long contracts and fully guaranteed deals.

• Enhanced revenue sharing: The players believe the owners' concerns about competitive balance can be addressed by reforming the revenue-sharing system. This is the age-old issue in labor disputes: Players believe that looking within, not at themselves, can solve a lot of the owners' issues.

Currently, big-market teams (such as the Knicks, Lakers, etc.) keep all the revenue from their ticket sales and local broadcast deals. The gap between the big and small markets is so large that players believe it undermines the stability of the league and the competitiveness of many of the teams.

• Enhance sign-trade flexibility: Currently, teams over the cap can trade players only when their salaries are within 125 percent and $100,000 of each other. Players want this amended to a range of 250 percent to make player movement easier. To ease this transition, the players are proposing a change to base-year compensation (BYC), a designation awarded to players who receive large raises after their rookie deals. BYC players' value in trades is halved, which makes trading them more difficult. As with the 125 percent rule, players are pushing to eliminate this rule because it impedes trades.

• Reduce the age limit to 18: Players want to revert back to the pre-2005 rules, where players only had to be 18 years old to declare for the draft. As of now, they must be 19 years old and one year removed from high school graduation.

• Restructure restricted free agency (RFA): Teams currently have one week to decide whether to match RFA offer sheets. Players believe this length paralyzes bidders during a frenzied free-agency period and provides disincentives to pursuing RFAs.

• Change/create exceptions: Players will not support a hard cap, but they are willing to make changes to various exceptions. They will shorten the length of the mid-level exception (MLE), the source of many misguided deals, from five years to four, in exchange for adding a second MLE for each team.

• Deduct arena/construction expenses from BRI pool: This is another concession by the players, who agree that they should take some part in the expenses of building and maintaining state-of-the-art arenas. This is also a key issue in the NFL labor negotiations.

• Provide a neutral arbitrator for all on-court discipline matters: Currently, players can appeal to a neutral arbitrator only when they have received suspensions longer than 12 games.

Notable topics not being discussed by either side: length of season/training camp/playoffs; retired player benefits; draft order; playing rules.

ES
martin
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6/29/2011  2:02 PM
Childs2Dudley wrote:
OasisBU wrote:
Childs2Dudley wrote:Besides the fact that the lockout is bull****, we as a franchise are cursed. We finally get good players and the NBA decides to stop playing. If we lose an entire season it will be a very bad thing for our franchise. Avery, very bad thing.

Why? Amare needs to rest his body so it might not be as bad as you think. I do believe that any stoppage in play is bad for the league in general but why do you think it is especially bad for the Knicks?

He doesn't need a year and a half to rest up his body. He isn't getting any younger. We need him in his prime.

Knicks aren't willing a championship next year, don't think they will get to ECF either.

I say a long lockout with a small remaining season and playoff is the best bet for the Knicks.

If it's a short season, there still would be time for CP3, Deron, Howard to try to make a push for trade, which is not in the best interest for Knicks. Long lockout and perhaps those guys will just play remainder for a couple of months and then take shot at free agency.

Lockout also gives time for Shumpert, Fields, TD to grow games and shots; Amare, Billups to heal; and perhaps team as a whole to practice together.

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Childs2Dudley
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6/29/2011  2:14 PM
martin wrote:
Childs2Dudley wrote:
OasisBU wrote:
Childs2Dudley wrote:Besides the fact that the lockout is bull****, we as a franchise are cursed. We finally get good players and the NBA decides to stop playing. If we lose an entire season it will be a very bad thing for our franchise. Avery, very bad thing.

Why? Amare needs to rest his body so it might not be as bad as you think. I do believe that any stoppage in play is bad for the league in general but why do you think it is especially bad for the Knicks?

He doesn't need a year and a half to rest up his body. He isn't getting any younger. We need him in his prime.

Knicks aren't willing a championship next year, don't think they will get to ECF either.

I say a long lockout with a small remaining season and playoff is the best bet for the Knicks.

If it's a short season, there still would be time for CP3, Deron, Howard to try to make a push for trade, which is not in the best interest for Knicks. Long lockout and perhaps those guys will just play remainder for a couple of months and then take shot at free agency.

Lockout also gives time for Shumpert, Fields, TD to grow games and shots; Amare, Billups to heal; and perhaps team as a whole to practice together.

The young guys will learn more by actually playing in games.

I'd prefer to get some playoff experience with this group.

Paul or Howard would be unrealistic under the new CBA and is more of a dream than a reality. We can't pin our hopes on that.

"Our attitude toward life determines life's attitude towards us." - Earl Nightingale
CrushAlot
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6/29/2011  2:16 PM
Can MSG broadcast the d-league team during the lockout?
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holfresh
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6/29/2011  2:17 PM
Childs2Dudley wrote:Besides the fact that the lockout is bull****, we as a franchise are cursed. We finally get good players and the NBA decides to stop playing. If we lose an entire season it will be a very bad thing for our franchise. Avery, very bad thing.

It's more of a revelation that you think we finally good players...

martin
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6/29/2011  2:28 PM
Childs2Dudley wrote:
martin wrote:
Childs2Dudley wrote:
OasisBU wrote:
Childs2Dudley wrote:Besides the fact that the lockout is bull****, we as a franchise are cursed. We finally get good players and the NBA decides to stop playing. If we lose an entire season it will be a very bad thing for our franchise. Avery, very bad thing.

Why? Amare needs to rest his body so it might not be as bad as you think. I do believe that any stoppage in play is bad for the league in general but why do you think it is especially bad for the Knicks?

He doesn't need a year and a half to rest up his body. He isn't getting any younger. We need him in his prime.

Knicks aren't willing a championship next year, don't think they will get to ECF either.

I say a long lockout with a small remaining season and playoff is the best bet for the Knicks.

If it's a short season, there still would be time for CP3, Deron, Howard to try to make a push for trade, which is not in the best interest for Knicks. Long lockout and perhaps those guys will just play remainder for a couple of months and then take shot at free agency.

Lockout also gives time for Shumpert, Fields, TD to grow games and shots; Amare, Billups to heal; and perhaps team as a whole to practice together.

The young guys will learn more by actually playing in games.

I'd prefer to get some playoff experience with this group.

Paul or Howard would be unrealistic under the new CBA and is more of a dream than a reality. We can't pin our hopes on that.

The things that Fields and Shumpert need to improve on is catch and shoot, and they would learn that better in the gym than on the court. In fact, outside of literal on-court experience, most NBA players get better more in the offseason than they do during the season.

Playoffs count for something, and I haven't discounted that, just called for a longer lockout rather than a shorter one.

And there have been many multiple stories on what the new CBA would be, and in one scenario of a $62M cap with a +/- $10M flex either way, it would make and easy pathway for a 3rd Max guy for the Knicks.

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SupremeCommander
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6/29/2011  2:30 PM
Childs2Dudley wrote:
martin wrote:
Childs2Dudley wrote:
OasisBU wrote:
Childs2Dudley wrote:Besides the fact that the lockout is bull****, we as a franchise are cursed. We finally get good players and the NBA decides to stop playing. If we lose an entire season it will be a very bad thing for our franchise. Avery, very bad thing.

Why? Amare needs to rest his body so it might not be as bad as you think. I do believe that any stoppage in play is bad for the league in general but why do you think it is especially bad for the Knicks?

He doesn't need a year and a half to rest up his body. He isn't getting any younger. We need him in his prime.

Knicks aren't willing a championship next year, don't think they will get to ECF either.

I say a long lockout with a small remaining season and playoff is the best bet for the Knicks.

If it's a short season, there still would be time for CP3, Deron, Howard to try to make a push for trade, which is not in the best interest for Knicks. Long lockout and perhaps those guys will just play remainder for a couple of months and then take shot at free agency.

Lockout also gives time for Shumpert, Fields, TD to grow games and shots; Amare, Billups to heal; and perhaps team as a whole to practice together.

The young guys will learn more by actually playing in games.

I'd prefer to get some playoff experience with this group.

Paul or Howard would be unrealistic under the new CBA and is more of a dream than a reality. We can't pin our hopes on that.

which young guys? the franchise isn't exactly pumped full of young talent

with a short season, other teams won't be able to mesh the team dynamic as well, and the Knicks can ride Melo and Amar'e

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
Killa4luv
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6/29/2011  3:07 PM
There are 3 things players will never agree to.
1. Elimination of garanteed contracts.
2. Hard cap of 45 million
3. Void of current contracts.

There is no way they will nor is there any way they should. I think players are aware that things need to change, but this things would be non-negotiable for me.

Anji
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6/29/2011  3:12 PM
Wow, this is a chasm between the two sides. The only hope is that the players accept the flex cap and the owners agree to a 5 year CBA, everything else seems to be miles apart.
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holfresh
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6/29/2011  3:12 PM
Killa4luv wrote:There are 3 things players will never agree to.
1. Elimination of garanteed contracts.
2. Hard cap of 45 million
3. Void of current contracts.

There is no way they will nor is there any way they should. I think players are aware that things need to change, but this things would be non-negotiable for me.

Nor would there be any support from the public or fans for such measures....

fishmike
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6/29/2011  3:31 PM
greedy owners... I love how "losing money" never takes into account the increased value of a franchise. Owner buys a team for $330mm and in 5 years its worth $425mm but all you hear about is they lost an average of $5mm a year. Hmmm... seems to me thats not factoring in all the numbers.

A lot of these rules could find creative solutions... like ALL NBA contracts are voidable and can be removed from the cap. However 60% of the remaining value of the contract must be paid.. something like that. Seems pretty reasonable

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Nalod
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6/29/2011  3:54 PM
fishmike wrote:greedy owners... I love how "losing money" never takes into account the increased value of a franchise. Owner buys a team for $330mm and in 5 years its worth $425mm but all you hear about is they lost an average of $5mm a year. Hmmm... seems to me thats not factoring in all the numbers.

A lot of these rules could find creative solutions... like ALL NBA contracts are voidable and can be removed from the cap. However 60% of the remaining value of the contract must be paid.. something like that. Seems pretty reasonable


they need to find compromise.

But teams are worth about 400 million and they are entitled to make a fair return on their investment and risk they take.

WE are talking about a handful of stars that might get hurt but I'd like to see more middle of the pack players get better "wages" for their effort. I like that a team could push salary off the cap.

I like that an NFL team does an upfront type bonus and most years guaranteed.

Im not sideing with one or the other but Owners are greed and Players are stupid.

They need to compromise.

Anji
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6/29/2011  4:32 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/29/2011  4:35 PM
I don't think the players are stupid. The way the owner proposal reads, they would be stupid to take it.

The owners want guaranteed profits so they come up with wanting the players to pay into some of the expense, which to me sounds like a share holder would they also get a share of the profit outside of their salaries??? They want the players to lock into a 2billion or 46 percent pool of the money for 10 years with a new TV deal coming in 5 years, which means for the players to get a raise the nba has to see increases of a billion dollars....... plus the want to change the BRI to include extra expenses. They Also want to recoup some of the current loses by keeping 8 percent of the current salaries being held, Along with shorter contracts and the removal of certain exceptions.


I mean damn I think I know a rape when I see one. They want money on the front, the back and the middle.

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Moonangie
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6/29/2011  5:12 PM
NBA Owners = Pwners... stupid phucks!
franco12
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6/29/2011  8:37 PM
Would anything stop the players from organizing their own league? Partner up with agents & a couple apparel manufacturers and the owners are quickly left with nothing.

You may initially have an issue with a few arenas - like MSG- but there are plenty that aren't owned by owners and their leases to me would seem to quickly be voidable if they never had hope of having another team play there.

Owners Will Push For $45 Million Hard Cap Once Lockout Begins...?

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