Bippity10 wrote:

samuraiknicks wrote:I'm now living in London, but flew to NY to watch Game 3 and 4 at MSG.
The reason for loss seems to be very simple strategic mistake on defence against Rondo. I strongly believe Toney was told by coach to step back from Rondo and let him shoot. However, Rondo had a freedom to start his penetration in any direction he wanted. Once quick player like Rondo is at full speed, even good defender like Toney could not keep up with Rondo, either passed by or fouled him. More importantly, penetration forced another Knicks player to help Toney, so Boston ended up with tons of open Js.
On the other hand, when Anthony Carter stepped on the court, he immediately started picking his man Rondo at Half court line. You saw him once picked up quick foul when Rondo tried to cross the half court and Anthony tried to put pressure on him. When Rondo got constant pressure defence on the ball, he tends to release the ball to Paul Pierce or Ray Allen. If that happened, Boston's field goal percentage was down and also they made some turnover. I believe Anthony did this based on his own judgement rather than instruction from coach because if MDA understood that he should have instructed Toney earlier.

At NBA level, there is no way to establish defence which stop everything from the opponent. The key is analysing opponent players' capability, offensive scheme and try to force them to take unwanted shot and keep adjusting defence to lower opponents' field goal percentage. The subject has been already discussed in various other topics, but I think MDA has zero capability in this respect. I mean adjustment.

If Toney was told to pick Rondo from half court and keep pressuring him. The outcome of games should be different.
So for me, Toney should come back next season and MDA should be fired.

If Anthony Carter was able to immediatley pick up Rondo, then why couldn't Toney? Aren't they on the same team and play for the same coach?

I believe Toney was instructed by Coach not to pick Rondo at half court, but give him huge space in front to let him shoot. But I believe Anthony ignored such instruction.

samuraiknicks wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:

samuraiknicks wrote:I'm now living in London, but flew to NY to watch Game 3 and 4 at MSG.
The reason for loss seems to be very simple strategic mistake on defence against Rondo. I strongly believe Toney was told by coach to step back from Rondo and let him shoot. However, Rondo had a freedom to start his penetration in any direction he wanted. Once quick player like Rondo is at full speed, even good defender like Toney could not keep up with Rondo, either passed by or fouled him. More importantly, penetration forced another Knicks player to help Toney, so Boston ended up with tons of open Js.
On the other hand, when Anthony Carter stepped on the court, he immediately started picking his man Rondo at Half court line. You saw him once picked up quick foul when Rondo tried to cross the half court and Anthony tried to put pressure on him. When Rondo got constant pressure defence on the ball, he tends to release the ball to Paul Pierce or Ray Allen. If that happened, Boston's field goal percentage was down and also they made some turnover. I believe Anthony did this based on his own judgement rather than instruction from coach because if MDA understood that he should have instructed Toney earlier.

At NBA level, there is no way to establish defence which stop everything from the opponent. The key is analysing opponent players' capability, offensive scheme and try to force them to take unwanted shot and keep adjusting defence to lower opponents' field goal percentage. The subject has been already discussed in various other topics, but I think MDA has zero capability in this respect. I mean adjustment.

If Toney was told to pick Rondo from half court and keep pressuring him. The outcome of games should be different.
So for me, Toney should come back next season and MDA should be fired.

If Anthony Carter was able to immediatley pick up Rondo, then why couldn't Toney? Aren't they on the same team and play for the same coach?

I believe Toney was instructed by Coach not to pick Rondo at half court, but give him huge space in front to let him shoot. But I believe Anthony ignored such instruction.

I believe you may have murdered someone in Boston last week. What I believe is not always true. As much as I want to call the police and have you arrested, I realize that there is a pretty good chance that it wasn't you. So until I recieve proof that you did in fact commit the crime I will just assume that it could have been anyone and therefore it would be unfair for me to hold it against you without proof.

Never in my history of being associate with basketball have I ever heard of a scenario were a coach set raise your arms and let the best penetrator on their team shoot layups. It appears that the simple answer is that Toney didn't play defense adn Carter simply did. I have to accept this until I hear otherwise. When I hear proof otherwise I will lead the charge with you. Until then...

MDA is all about switching and playing off guys - that its no surprise that Toney was instructed to play off Rondo.

franco12 wrote:I read something about this awhile ago - that one philosophy on why Rondo is able to get so many assists, besides not playing on Minny, is that when his defender plays off him, he is able to have better vision through and over the defense.

MDA is all about switching and playing off guys - that its no surprise that Toney was instructed to play off Rondo.

A lot of teams play Rondo the same way. But remember there is a difference between playing off Rondo and backing away and allowing him to shoot layups. A lot of teams play off of Rondo and don't allow him to shoot 15 layups as their PG jumps out of the way. TD had a horrible defensieve series and it's amazing to me that a coach is taking the blame for it.

I've been roasted on D a few times. Never thought to blame my coach.

DurzoBlint wrote:

samuraiknicks wrote:I'm now living in London, but flew to NY to watch Game 3 and 4 at MSG.
The reason for loss seems to be very simple strategic mistake on defence against Rondo. I strongly believe Toney was told by coach to step back from Rondo and let him shoot. However, Rondo had a freedom to start his penetration in any direction he wanted. Once quick player like Rondo is at full speed, even good defender like Toney could not keep up with Rondo, either passed by or fouled him. More importantly, penetration forced another Knicks player to help Toney, so Boston ended up with tons of open Js.
On the other hand, when Anthony Carter stepped on the court, he immediately started picking his man Rondo at Half court line. You saw him once picked up quick foul when Rondo tried to cross the half court and Anthony tried to put pressure on him. When Rondo got constant pressure defence on the ball, he tends to release the ball to Paul Pierce or Ray Allen. If that happened, Boston's field goal percentage was down and also they made some turnover. I believe Anthony did this based on his own judgement rather than instruction from coach because if MDA understood that he should have instructed Toney earlier.

At NBA level, there is no way to establish defence which stop everything from the opponent. The key is analysing opponent players' capability, offensive scheme and try to force them to take unwanted shot and keep adjusting defence to lower opponents' field goal percentage. The subject has been already discussed in various other topics, but I think MDA has zero capability in this respect. I mean adjustment.

If Toney was told to pick Rondo from half court and keep pressuring him. The outcome of games should be different.
So for me, Toney should come back next season and MDA should be fired.

I doubt coach told him to back peddle into photographers row or to just jump out of his was instead of planting his feat and stopping Rondos drive??!!!

That's why I can't excuse TD for his performance. Its one thing to play hard and have a bad night and quite another to play stupid.

I'll let this guy say it like he did in this article after the first two games. Mind you just before the NBA record 20 assist game and the triple double

How do you stop Rondo picking you apart? Pressure him. The Knicks have one of the best on ball defenders in the NBA in Toney Douglas. Instead of having him stand on the free throw line, let him do what he does best and get in Rondo’s grill. Rondo might still find Allen spotting up, but I guarantee that the timing won’t be as good. The only thing that can happen when you pressure Rondo is that he gets past you and into the middle of the defense. The play becomes a scramble and Rondo has to find somebody open. He’s really good at that, but guess what – he’s also a turnover machine. By just letting Rondo play by himself, the Knicks take away the threat of a turnover, and Rondo still finds the open man. Now you’ve gone from two possible outcomes: Rondo hits the open man or Rondo throws it away, to one: Rondo hits the open man.

TD's ball pressure I still believe just ruined Duhon.

Full dated article linked below

http://www.basketballbloke.com/2011/04/nba-playoffs-day-7-or-why-wont-the-knicks-guard-rondo/

Bippity10 wrote:

franco12 wrote:I read something about this awhile ago - that one philosophy on why Rondo is able to get so many assists, besides not playing on Minny, is that when his defender plays off him, he is able to have better vision through and over the defense.

MDA is all about switching and playing off guys - that its no surprise that Toney was instructed to play off Rondo.

A lot of teams play Rondo the same way. But remember there is a difference between playing off Rondo and backing away and allowing him to shoot layups. A lot of teams play off of Rondo and don't allow him to shoot 15 layups as their PG jumps out of the way. TD had a horrible defensieve series and it's amazing to me that a coach is taking the blame for it.

I've been roasted on D a few times. Never thought to blame my coach.

That's because you thought. Big difference.

samuraiknicks wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:

samuraiknicks wrote:I'm now living in London, but flew to NY to watch Game 3 and 4 at MSG.
The reason for loss seems to be very simple strategic mistake on defence against Rondo. I strongly believe Toney was told by coach to step back from Rondo and let him shoot. However, Rondo had a freedom to start his penetration in any direction he wanted. Once quick player like Rondo is at full speed, even good defender like Toney could not keep up with Rondo, either passed by or fouled him. More importantly, penetration forced another Knicks player to help Toney, so Boston ended up with tons of open Js.
On the other hand, when Anthony Carter stepped on the court, he immediately started picking his man Rondo at Half court line. You saw him once picked up quick foul when Rondo tried to cross the half court and Anthony tried to put pressure on him. When Rondo got constant pressure defence on the ball, he tends to release the ball to Paul Pierce or Ray Allen. If that happened, Boston's field goal percentage was down and also they made some turnover. I believe Anthony did this based on his own judgement rather than instruction from coach because if MDA understood that he should have instructed Toney earlier.

At NBA level, there is no way to establish defence which stop everything from the opponent. The key is analysing opponent players' capability, offensive scheme and try to force them to take unwanted shot and keep adjusting defence to lower opponents' field goal percentage. The subject has been already discussed in various other topics, but I think MDA has zero capability in this respect. I mean adjustment.

If Toney was told to pick Rondo from half court and keep pressuring him. The outcome of games should be different.
So for me, Toney should come back next season and MDA should be fired.

If Anthony Carter was able to immediatley pick up Rondo, then why couldn't Toney? Aren't they on the same team and play for the same coach?

I believe Toney was instructed by Coach not to pick Rondo at half court, but give him huge space in front to let him shoot. But I believe Anthony ignored such instruction.

"We got tired of the way things were going," one player explained in the wee hours of Sunday night, long after everyone had departed from the Garden.

"We walked in at halftime and said 'We can't go out this way.' We were pretty ticked off, especially at us not seeming to have any answers scheme-wise. We knew Boston knew everything we were going to do, how we were going to do it, so we needed to do something differently. We just couldn't keep going the way we were going."

loweyecue wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:

franco12 wrote:I read something about this awhile ago - that one philosophy on why Rondo is able to get so many assists, besides not playing on Minny, is that when his defender plays off him, he is able to have better vision through and over the defense.

MDA is all about switching and playing off guys - that its no surprise that Toney was instructed to play off Rondo.

A lot of teams play Rondo the same way. But remember there is a difference between playing off Rondo and backing away and allowing him to shoot layups. A lot of teams play off of Rondo and don't allow him to shoot 15 layups as their PG jumps out of the way. TD had a horrible defensieve series and it's amazing to me that a coach is taking the blame for it.

I've been roasted on D a few times. Never thought to blame my coach.

That's because you thought. Big difference.

Good post