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How Many "Lead Dogs" Do The Knicks Need To Win A Championship?
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misterearl
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4/2/2011  3:52 PM
Placing the burden of carrying a team on any one player is foolish.

In addition, Mike D'Antoni should know better than to use the concept of "lead dog" to the media as they will only use it to brew dissension. D'Antoni must adjust his strategy and vocabulary to a team that starts three veterans, all who are capable of leading, on offense.

First, scoring points is only one aspect of the game. Anthony, Stoudemire and Billups are ALL capable of significant offensive output on any given night.

Second, Mike D'Antoni SHOULD be concerned with is getting his rookie prodigy, Landry Fields, involved in the offense. Field's now suffers from being ignored more than Danilo Gallinari ever was, and as a result, the Knicks versatility is limited.

Third, but not least, forget about scoring stats. Who is making the key stops (or grabbing a man's rebound) when the game is on the line? Who is the leader for establishing a playing personality on defense?

Defense wins championships in the NBA. You need 5.

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nykshaknbake
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4/2/2011  3:58 PM
With our current in game stratagems I think we would need 5 lead dog starters and maybe a bench with at least 2 borderline all stars.
Marv
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4/2/2011  4:06 PM
it may be unwise to say it, but it's very wise to do it. you mentioned a while ago about making melo a point forward and having much of the offense flow through him. i like that idea, it’s just gotta happen more quickly. 1. quick pass to cutter or open shooter. 2. drive or shot. 3. pass out of the double team. EVERYBODY hits the boards.
misterearl
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4/2/2011  4:17 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/2/2011  4:17 PM
Marv - you are a wise man.

The hidden beauty of Carmelo is his size and ball handling. At 6'9, he also has excellent court awareness. Unfortunately, if Melo is primarily deployed with his back to the basket, you only reduce his field of vision. That does not make sense. If D'Antoni is committed to getting more shots at the basket he would be wise to trust Carmelo with the rock in the backcourt. Let him play more FACING the basket and not simply posting up, looking to feature his solo act.

You wanna post up someone? Post up Landry Fields once in a while. He is an excellent passer, has decent footwork and might enjoy turning in the lane for his mid-range shot.

EVERYBODY hits the boards.

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holfresh
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4/2/2011  4:21 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/2/2011  4:23 PM
Fields might have hit his rookie wall..It's not easy going from a 30+ game season to an 82 game season at an NBA pace...Knicks didn't run plays for Fields before the trade, he excelled at put backs and rebounding misses...Fields true value can be enhanced by stepping up his man on man defense...He should be encouraged to be a lock down defender, not sure if he has the quickness for this but...It's the Knicks biggest need right now...Defensive players...
nixluva
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4/2/2011  4:38 PM
Coming here the last few years has become like watching CNN, Fox and MSNBC politics. There's always so much parsing of words from the players and in particular the coach that it get's a bit ridiculous. Mike really didn't say anything detrimental. The guy just hypothesized and most likely in response to a question. The Media has been trying to make this story that somehow Amar'e is unhappy with the presence of Melo. I think it's just stupid, since they were friends and he wanted Melo to come. If anything i'm pretty sure that STAT is happy for the help and someone to help take the pressure off as he gets his legs back.

"I think it makes a difference, it could be for good or for bad, you'd have to ask him about that, exactly," the coach said. "But we'll try to make it for good so he doesn't have to carry the load down the stretch. And they can share it, game to game. It should be better."

It sounds to me like this is a great approach. The top players on this team all have to step up and help the team get wins and I think they know that. That's exactly what they tried to do in the last 2 wins. I fully expect STAT, Melo and Billups to take the lead in the playoffs. As for a kid like Fields. It's a tough spot cuz a lot has changed. The dynamics of the team and the players trying to find the right balance between the top 3 taking the lead, but the role players fitting in and getting enough touches to really stay involved. We may not be able to get that balance right this season.

misterearl
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4/2/2011  4:46 PM
holfresh - all the more reason to run plays for Fields now, just to keep defenses from collapsing on the Three Amigos. The Knicks only have three consistent, dependable scorers. If we are already running without a center who can attract attention, why should the Knicks continue to be predictable?

One more thing, at the three spot there are few "lock down" defenders. The most we can expect from our talented rookie is that he stay between his man and the basket. From the evidence to date, he works hard to do just that. The lock down thing will take a minute. I am more than willing to allow Landry Fields another spin through an entire NBA season until he gets his sea legs.

Sad but true. The Knicks greatest need for tall/ quick defenders will not be addressed until the Summer and beyond.

Perhaps that lead dog can dog any opponent who drives the paint with a lack of respect for our interior resistance.

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holfresh
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4/2/2011  5:29 PM
misterearl wrote:holfresh - all the more reason to run plays for Fields now, just to keep defenses from collapsing on the Three Amigos. The Knicks only have three consistent, dependable scorers. If we are already running without a center who can attract attention, why should the Knicks continue to be predictable?

One more thing, at the three spot there are few "lock down" defenders. The most we can expect from our talented rookie is that he stay between his man and the basket. From the evidence to date, he works hard to do just that. The lock down thing will take a minute. I am more than willing to allow Landry Fields another spin through an entire NBA season until he gets his sea legs.

Sad but true. The Knicks greatest need for tall/ quick defenders will not be addressed until the Summer and beyond.

Perhaps that lead dog can dog any opponent who drives the paint with a lack of respect for our interior resistance.

He actually plays the two spot...Bruce Bowen type of player is what I had in mind...Artest was the last lock down defender at the three...Field is 6' 7", so becoming a good defender he might be able to get assignment of the best 2 or 3 from the opposing team...That said, Melo might just be our best defender when he wants to be...But as you say it takes time and hard work...Not sure if anyone on the sidelines will lead him in that direction tho...

BlueSeats
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4/2/2011  5:45 PM
I don't get why Billups isn't running P&R with Melo. Stat too, though with the state of his knees he may not be rolling all that much.

But hell, we supposedly have a championship caliber PG, why should we reinvent the wheel and have Melo playing point? Set him up and let him score.

holfresh
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4/2/2011  6:00 PM
He's actually done a poor job running the offense...He takes really bad shots all the time...I can't believe this is the leader everyone has been raving about...
misterearl
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4/2/2011  6:40 PM
BlueSeats wrote:I don't get why Billups isn't running P&R with Melo. Stat too, though with the state of his knees he may not be rolling all that much.

But hell, we supposedly have a championship caliber PG, why should we reinvent the wheel and have Melo playing point? Set him up and let him score.

Dont think Magic Johnson

think Carmelo Anthony Mason

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nixluva
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4/2/2011  6:51 PM
holfresh wrote:He's actually done a poor job running the offense...He takes really bad shots all the time...I can't believe this is the leader everyone has been raving about...

I never really thought about it, but in Detroit he basically just had to stay at the top and wait for Rip to come around on the curl or feed Rasheed in the post. It was probably one of the easiest offenses to run as a PG. This offense is like rocket science compared to that. If you put a Deron, CP3 or any really smart PG in this offense it goes to another level. Trust me when I say that we haven't really seen a fraction of the actual offense since Mike has been here. These PG's aren't smart enough to actually absorb and execute all of it. It's like having Peyton Manning running your offense verses a guy that can't read defenses. The whole thing just comes to a grinding halt. However if you have a smart QB you get to see one of the most high powered and efficient offenses possible. I'm not sure if CB can do that. It's not looking good right now, but he hasn't had a fair shot to learn this stuff. The part that bothers me the most is that CB hasn't looked like he even wants to try running PnR.

It may be in our best interests to try and run the offense thru Melo a bit more. He's actually been surprisingly good at it. I think he's finding it fun to do as well, which may have shocked him, but when he executes a pass that leads to a score you can see how happy he is. IMO he's already started to grow as a player since coming here. This has been the 1st time since coming into the league that he's been challenged to do more out of necessity.

misterearl
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4/2/2011  7:55 PM
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:He's actually done a poor job running the offense...He takes really bad shots all the time...I can't believe this is the leader everyone has been raving about...

I never really thought about it, but in Detroit he basically just had to stay at the top and wait for Rip to come around on the curl or feed Rasheed in the post. It was probably one of the easiest offenses to run as a PG. This offense is like rocket science compared to that. If you put a Deron, CP3 or any really smart PG in this offense it goes to another level. Trust me when I say that we haven't really seen a fraction of the actual offense since Mike has been here. These PG's aren't smart enough to actually absorb and execute all of it. It's like having Peyton Manning running your offense verses a guy that can't read defenses. The whole thing just comes to a grinding halt. However if you have a smart QB you get to see one of the most high powered and efficient offenses possible. I'm not sure if CB can do that. It's not looking good right now, but he hasn't had a fair shot to learn this stuff. The part that bothers me the most is that CB hasn't looked like he even wants to try running PnR.

It may be in our best interests to try and run the offense thru Melo a bit more. He's actually been surprisingly good at it. I think he's finding it fun to do as well, which may have shocked him, but when he executes a pass that leads to a score you can see how happy he is. IMO he's already started to grow as a player since coming here. This has been the 1st time since coming into the league that he's been challenged to do more out of necessity.

nixluva - outstanding post

one minor detail however. The idea is not to simply run the offense through Carmelo, but allow him to INITIATE the offense with the ball in his hands from the midcourt line

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CrushAlot
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4/2/2011  8:00 PM
I think a different lead dog on the bench would fix a lot of things. I also wonder how a team with such a complex offense is able to never practice when there are lots of new guys on the team.
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BlueSeats
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4/2/2011  8:44 PM
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:He's actually done a poor job running the offense...He takes really bad shots all the time...I can't believe this is the leader everyone has been raving about...

I never really thought about it, but in Detroit he basically just had to stay at the top and wait for Rip to come around on the curl or feed Rasheed in the post. It was probably one of the easiest offenses to run as a PG. This offense is like rocket science compared to that. If you put a Deron, CP3 or any really smart PG in this offense it goes to another level. Trust me when I say that we haven't really seen a fraction of the actual offense since Mike has been here. These PG's aren't smart enough to actually absorb and execute all of it. It's like having Peyton Manning running your offense verses a guy that can't read defenses. The whole thing just comes to a grinding halt. However if you have a smart QB you get to see one of the most high powered and efficient offenses possible. I'm not sure if CB can do that. It's not looking good right now, but he hasn't had a fair shot to learn this stuff. The part that bothers me the most is that CB hasn't looked like he even wants to try running PnR.

It may be in our best interests to try and run the offense thru Melo a bit more. He's actually been surprisingly good at it. I think he's finding it fun to do as well, which may have shocked him, but when he executes a pass that leads to a score you can see how happy he is. IMO he's already started to grow as a player since coming here. This has been the 1st time since coming into the league that he's been challenged to do more out of necessity.

I'm not expecting Billups to run circles like Nash, he can run the offense from the top of the key, just utilize some damn screens up there. I think/hope he can make a pass in motion. If not bring him off the bench like Vinnie Microwave.

The one thing I did expect from Billups was leadership and poise. Sheesh, who'da thunk we'd need TD to mentor him...

BasketballJones
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4/2/2011  10:24 PM
We need a pack of wolves, not seeing-eye dogs. (Notice, I DID NOT say Timberwolves)
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misterearl
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4/2/2011  10:35 PM
BasketballJones wrote:We need a pack of wolves, not seeing-eye dogs. (Notice, I DID NOT say Timberwolves)

Seeing eye dogs? Please explain. The analogy is a bit difficult to follow if you just throw it out there without any background or explanation.

Is Biilups, Amare Carmelo a big bad wolf?

Is D'Antoni Little Red Riding Hood?

Now I'm confused

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arkrud
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4/2/2011  10:42 PM
Knicks needs one big cat...
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CrushAlot
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4/2/2011  10:51 PM
misterearl wrote:
BasketballJones wrote:We need a pack of wolves, not seeing-eye dogs. (Notice, I DID NOT say Timberwolves)

Seeing eye dogs? Please explain. The analogy is a bit difficult to follow if you just throw it out there without any background or explanation.

Is Biilups, Amare Carmelo a big bad wolf?

Is D'Antoni Little Red Riding Hood?

Now I'm confused

I can't clarify everything but I am pretty sure that D'Antoni is grandma.
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simrud
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4/2/2011  11:30 PM
I agree he should be keeping this to himself.

However, the offense should run through Melo. The point of having him on a team is to run your offense through him because offensively, he is top 5 in the NBA. If you were to put a bunch of defenders and rebounders who can stick an open jumper around Melo, you would have a 50 team right away. Just like they did in Denver.

We have STAT as the 2nd optoin, now its just a matter of putting hard nosed defender / rebounder type of players around Melo and STAT. This is what this summer should be about, obtaining the Tyrone Hill and George Lynch type of PF and SG (I know Lynch was SF, stick an Aaron McKie or however you spell his name in the analogy instead if you want).

A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
How Many "Lead Dogs" Do The Knicks Need To Win A Championship?

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