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Ill give anyone a chance to explin to this board--exactly how do we improve the team
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BRIGGS
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2/23/2011  8:40 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/23/2011  9:08 AM
when our cap number is atleast 50mm for 5 players when we are forced to pay Landry Field ATLEAST 5mm or more upfrontin 2012? forget the other max FA--that a nother line of BS--its not feasible. I dont even see how we improve much??? anyone else have a formula they can provide. Can u do the math for an idiot like me?

Our team is this in 2012 after we pay Landry

C-Balkman1.7
F Amare 20
F melo 20
G Fields(my guess at a minimum 6 years 30MM)5mm
G Douglas 2mm

That's 49mm right there. then add 7 cap holds * 400k 2.8mm Cap number is 51.8

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Moonangie
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2/23/2011  8:41 AM
Dunno about all that, but I think Billups' expiring will be somewhere north of $14mil. That would get us part of the way toward CP3's new deal.
BRIGGS
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2/23/2011  8:44 AM
Moonangie wrote:Dunno about all that, but I think Billups' expiring will be somewhere north of $14mil. That would get us part of the way toward CP3's new deal.

Exactly how does that happen? Our cap number after we sign landry fields will be 49mm I cant see the actual cap line more than 55--do you??

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BigSm00th
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2/23/2011  8:45 AM
its IMPOSSIBLE to predict what kind of rules the new CBA will have. threads like this are worthless. the rules are going to be torn up and re-written! its anybody guess, call miss cleo!

briggs, if there is a hard cap of 45 million there is likely going to be a roll back of player's salaries, even those on the books. which means that melo and STAT wouldn't be making $20 mil. just speculation, lets start 200 threads about what will happen if stat goes down with an injury or if lala doesn't like living in NYC!!!!

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Finestrg
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2/23/2011  8:47 AM
Too bad you don't choose to engage me in any kind of decent conversation -- I've been talking about this very topic in quite a few threads..
fishmike
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2/23/2011  8:53 AM
This is Walsh's challenge. You made jokes about Mosgov but he started to look like a pretty damn good prospect. You called Landry Fields a wasted pick, now he looks like a fixture at SG for the next 10 years. Walsh bought a pick for Douglas, who's been hurt but has shown he's a solid bench/rotation guy in this league. Shawn Williams is a scrap heap reclamation project but he's been pretty solid also hasnt he? Walsh signed Felton for a budget $7mm

Walsh knows what he's doing and he's shown to be a pretty solid evaluator of talent.

Ask yourself this... When Walsh took over 2 1/2 years ago we were build around Curry, Zach, Marbury and had a couple OK guys in the pipeline, Lee, Nate, etc.

Would you have traded that whole roster for Melo and Amare and start from there? It would be hard not to... how many times and crazy trades have we suggested to get a franchise player in here? You yourself once suggested trading 3 first round picks and guys on our roster for Kwame Brown. KWAME FREAKIN BROWN. Your thinking was poor at the time, but your logic was sound. The idea is that we NEEDED a stud player that could impress his will on a game and take over. WE have seen how Amare's ability to do that separates him from guys who just fill out the stat sheet like Lee. Now we have TWO of those guys to build around.

There is no guarentee it happens. This could be a Hawks part II and a perenial 2nd round team while our stars collect massive paychecks and we dont have the high picks or cap space to add impact players to get us over the hump. OR maybe we find a Rondo, a Ben Wallace, make a good trade or two...

The depth on this roster had been utterly depleated, but the talent has been upgraded, bigtime. Let the man work

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BRIGGS
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2/23/2011  8:54 AM
BigSm00th wrote:its IMPOSSIBLE to predict what kind of rules the new CBA will have. threads like this are worthless. the rules are going to be torn up and re-written! its anybody guess, call miss cleo!

briggs, if there is a hard cap of 45 million there is likely going to be a roll back of player's salaries, even those on the books. which means that melo and STAT wouldn't be making $20 mil. just speculation, lets start 200 threads about what will happen if stat goes down with an injury or if lala doesn't like living in NYC!!!!

Big smooth--lets say a 54mm is the cap. Is that a fair number given this year is 58 and there will be some concessions? Now show me how to do it.

RIP Crushalot😞
BRIGGS
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2/23/2011  8:55 AM
fishmike wrote:This is Walsh's challenge. You made jokes about Mosgov but he started to look like a pretty damn good prospect. You called Landry Fields a wasted pick, now he looks like a fixture at SG for the next 10 years. Walsh bought a pick for Douglas, who's been hurt but has shown he's a solid bench/rotation guy in this league. Shawn Williams is a scrap heap reclamation project but he's been pretty solid also hasnt he? Walsh signed Felton for a budget $7mm

Walsh knows what he's doing and he's shown to be a pretty solid evaluator of talent.

Ask yourself this... When Walsh took over 2 1/2 years ago we were build around Curry, Zach, Marbury and had a couple OK guys in the pipeline, Lee, Nate, etc.

Would you have traded that whole roster for Melo and Amare and start from there? It would be hard not to... how many times and crazy trades have we suggested to get a franchise player in here? You yourself once suggested trading 3 first round picks and guys on our roster for Kwame Brown. KWAME FREAKIN BROWN. Your thinking was poor at the time, but your logic was sound. The idea is that we NEEDED a stud player that could impress his will on a game and take over. WE have seen how Amare's ability to do that separates him from guys who just fill out the stat sheet like Lee. Now we have TWO of those guys to build around.

There is no guarentee it happens. This could be a Hawks part II and a perenial 2nd round team while our stars collect massive paychecks and we dont have the high picks or cap space to add impact players to get us over the hump. OR maybe we find a Rondo, a Ben Wallace, make a good trade or two...

The depth on this roster had been utterly depleated, but the talent has been upgraded, bigtime. Let the man work

Dont fool yourself--DW did not do this trade. hes not stupid.

RIP Crushalot😞
BigSm00th
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2/23/2011  8:56 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
BigSm00th wrote:its IMPOSSIBLE to predict what kind of rules the new CBA will have. threads like this are worthless. the rules are going to be torn up and re-written! its anybody guess, call miss cleo!

briggs, if there is a hard cap of 45 million there is likely going to be a roll back of player's salaries, even those on the books. which means that melo and STAT wouldn't be making $20 mil. just speculation, lets start 200 threads about what will happen if stat goes down with an injury or if lala doesn't like living in NYC!!!!

Big smooth--lets say a 54mm is the cap. Is that a fair number given this year is 58 and there will be some concessions? Now show me how to do it.

briggs, lets say the players association agrees to shorter contracts, lowering the max money, raising the age limit, and a hard cap of 65+ mil. now show me how it doesnt work.

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JohnWallace44
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2/23/2011  9:03 AM
Briggs, if the salary cap is harsh to the Knicks, then its going to be extremely tough for teams like Miami, Boston and Chicago to operate as well. You act like the new rules will only apply to us.

We have the perfect coach for a tougher salary cap because he can turn marginal wing players into 17ppg scorers.

Are you assuming we won't be able to buy picks in the future? If we're a top 10 team, then those late picks we usually buy will be in the same area we would be drafting normally. There's a dozen tweener wings in this draft along with PG's with raw talent like Selby. I'm really not that worried.

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
BRIGGS
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2/23/2011  9:03 AM
BigSm00th wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
BigSm00th wrote:its IMPOSSIBLE to predict what kind of rules the new CBA will have. threads like this are worthless. the rules are going to be torn up and re-written! its anybody guess, call miss cleo!

briggs, if there is a hard cap of 45 million there is likely going to be a roll back of player's salaries, even those on the books. which means that melo and STAT wouldn't be making $20 mil. just speculation, lets start 200 threads about what will happen if stat goes down with an injury or if lala doesn't like living in NYC!!!!

Big smooth--lets say a 54mm is the cap. Is that a fair number given this year is 58 and there will be some concessions? Now show me how to do it.

briggs, lets say the players association agrees to shorter contracts, lowering the max money, raising the age limit, and a hard cap of 65+ mil. now show me how it doesnt work.

So you think the owners want to increase payroll and you think the players accept a hard cap? Thats very high smooth. 65mm is the average team salary now. I can see a salary cap of 54 and a luxury line around 60-62--you think its going higher????????????????

RIP Crushalot😞
BRIGGS
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2/23/2011  9:06 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/23/2011  9:07 AM
JohnWallace44 wrote:Briggs, if the salary cap is harsh to the Knicks, then its going to be extremely tough for teams like Miami, Boston and Chicago to operate as well. You act like the new rules will only apply to us.

We have the perfect coach for a tougher salary cap because he can turn marginal wing players into 17ppg scorers.

Are you assuming we won't be able to buy picks in the future? If we're a top 10 team, then those late picks we usually buy will be in the same area we would be drafting normally. There's a dozen tweener wings in this draft along with PG's with raw talent like Selby. I'm really not that worried.

J wallace--I cant see anyway that the NBA wont keep the system as is with a % reduction. How can they have a hard cap??? they cant--you will be permitted to sign you own. the problem is we have no one to sign of our own except field and Douglas. You have to do the math and be realistic. Im saying keep the SAME system in place with a 10% reduction. Is that not realistic?

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BigSm00th
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2/23/2011  9:07 AM
negotiations usually work in such a manner. one side makes certain concessions and another side makes other concessions. i HIGHLY doubt there is going to be a hard cap of 45 million maybe next year after a lockout.

the fact of the matter is -- and this comes out in your response -- is i can think one thing, you can think another thing, neither of us know b/c neither of us will be writing the CBA.

miami has 60+ million locked up with their big 3. what will happen to those guys? what about LA with kobe getting 30 million at the end of his contract. is he going to be 80% of the lakers' payroll? no.

the odds are tehre will be room to sign CP3 or d-will or dwight howard. there is a longshot that we don't.

what if we didn't make the move and chandler and gallo and mozgov over night became allstars. then we wouldn't have enough space to lock all of them up anyway!

we were 28-26 with the team as is. my guess is we'll be better than 15-13 over the last 28 games. thus, we are a better team NOW and moving forward.

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BigSm00th
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2/23/2011  9:09 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/23/2011  9:10 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
JohnWallace44 wrote:Briggs, if the salary cap is harsh to the Knicks, then its going to be extremely tough for teams like Miami, Boston and Chicago to operate as well. You act like the new rules will only apply to us.

We have the perfect coach for a tougher salary cap because he can turn marginal wing players into 17ppg scorers.

Are you assuming we won't be able to buy picks in the future? If we're a top 10 team, then those late picks we usually buy will be in the same area we would be drafting normally. There's a dozen tweener wings in this draft along with PG's with raw talent like Selby. I'm really not that worried.

J wallace--I cant see anyway that the NBA wont keep the system as is with a % reduction. How can they have a hard cap??? they cant--you will be permitted to sign you own. the problem is we have no one to sign of our own except field and Douglas. You have to do the math and be realistic. Im saying keep the SAME system in place with a 10% reduction. Is that not realistic?

once again: YOU DO NOT KNOW THIS! this is merely you saying "this is what it'll be". as far as i know, and correct me if i'm wrong, you are not a lawyer working for the NBA or NBAPA. if you are not, you have no clue like everyone else. (and even if you were you wouldn't have any clue but merely a better idea of what will be discussed in negotiations)

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BRIGGS
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2/23/2011  9:11 AM
BigSm00th wrote:negotiations usually work in such a manner. one side makes certain concessions and another side makes other concessions. i HIGHLY doubt there is going to be a hard cap of 45 million maybe next year after a lockout.

the fact of the matter is -- and this comes out in your response -- is i can think one thing, you can think another thing, neither of us know b/c neither of us will be writing the CBA.

miami has 60+ million locked up with their big 3. what will happen to those guys? what about LA with kobe getting 30 million at the end of his contract. is he going to be 80% of the lakers' payroll? no.

the odds are tehre will be room to sign CP3 or d-will or dwight howard. there is a longshot that we don't.

what if we didn't make the move and chandler and gallo and mozgov over night became allstars. then we wouldn't have enough space to lock all of them up anyway!

we were 28-26 with the team as is. my guess is we'll be better than 15-13 over the last 28 games. thus, we are a better team NOW and moving forward.


Big smooth--let me ask this question. If you keep everything in place with a 10% drop in salary cap to 54mm and a lux tax around 62-63 whatever--still giving ANY team the ability to sign their own--isnt that a reasonable deduction?? No player will accept a hard cap nor will small market teams unless the number is low

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BRIGGS
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2/23/2011  9:12 AM
BigSm00th wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
JohnWallace44 wrote:Briggs, if the salary cap is harsh to the Knicks, then its going to be extremely tough for teams like Miami, Boston and Chicago to operate as well. You act like the new rules will only apply to us.

We have the perfect coach for a tougher salary cap because he can turn marginal wing players into 17ppg scorers.

Are you assuming we won't be able to buy picks in the future? If we're a top 10 team, then those late picks we usually buy will be in the same area we would be drafting normally. There's a dozen tweener wings in this draft along with PG's with raw talent like Selby. I'm really not that worried.

J wallace--I cant see anyway that the NBA wont keep the system as is with a % reduction. How can they have a hard cap??? they cant--you will be permitted to sign you own. the problem is we have no one to sign of our own except field and Douglas. You have to do the math and be realistic. Im saying keep the SAME system in place with a 10% reduction. Is that not realistic?

once again: YOU DO NOT KNOW THIS! this is merely you saying "this is what it'll be". as far as i know, and correct me if i'm wrong, you are not a lawyer working for the NBA or NBAPA. if you are not, you have no clue like everyone else. (and even if you were you wouldn't have any clue but merely a better idea of what will be discussed in negotiations)

Im being realistic. saying keep the same system with a 10% reduction--is that not realistic? Im not saying this is stone--Im trying to be realistic.

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BigSm00th
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2/23/2011  9:22 AM
say the players make concessions -- they agree to raise the age limit to 2 yrs out of HS. they agree to lowering the max contract money. they also agree to re-calibrate the revenue sharing. the owners then make a concession of raising the cap -- thus ensuring that the middle class of players make more money and the top players are the ones that make less. then you come out with a cap that is higher and with max contracts earning less. is that a system where it could work? yes. do i have any idea? no.

remember the allan houston poison pill part of the last CBA? nobody saw that one coming -- but it came. who knows what will come out of left field this time?

can we just postpone this thread until next october when they are getting to the deadline and hammering out the details?

fact of the matter is -- the knicks dealt 3 somewhat promising prospects to get one of the best scorers in the game in the prime of his career (and what the absolute highest ceiling that gallinari has and likely will never be consistently) and upgraded the PG position to a former finals MVP with experience, better shooting, better at running a team.

are you really that bent out of shape about losing mozgov?

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fishmike
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2/23/2011  9:26 AM
Briggs, why the drama over the cap #? So long as its a soft cap the Knicks can go over, its not an issue. Its a level playing field up to that point. How did the Spurs get better? How did Boston? How did the Lakers?

Walsh has repeatedly demonstrated his ability to add assets whether it was buying picks, low cost FAs.

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fishmike
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2/23/2011  9:31 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
fishmike wrote:This is Walsh's challenge. You made jokes about Mosgov but he started to look like a pretty damn good prospect. You called Landry Fields a wasted pick, now he looks like a fixture at SG for the next 10 years. Walsh bought a pick for Douglas, who's been hurt but has shown he's a solid bench/rotation guy in this league. Shawn Williams is a scrap heap reclamation project but he's been pretty solid also hasnt he? Walsh signed Felton for a budget $7mm

Walsh knows what he's doing and he's shown to be a pretty solid evaluator of talent.

Ask yourself this... When Walsh took over 2 1/2 years ago we were build around Curry, Zach, Marbury and had a couple OK guys in the pipeline, Lee, Nate, etc.

Would you have traded that whole roster for Melo and Amare and start from there? It would be hard not to... how many times and crazy trades have we suggested to get a franchise player in here? You yourself once suggested trading 3 first round picks and guys on our roster for Kwame Brown. KWAME FREAKIN BROWN. Your thinking was poor at the time, but your logic was sound. The idea is that we NEEDED a stud player that could impress his will on a game and take over. WE have seen how Amare's ability to do that separates him from guys who just fill out the stat sheet like Lee. Now we have TWO of those guys to build around.

There is no guarentee it happens. This could be a Hawks part II and a perenial 2nd round team while our stars collect massive paychecks and we dont have the high picks or cap space to add impact players to get us over the hump. OR maybe we find a Rondo, a Ben Wallace, make a good trade or two...

The depth on this roster had been utterly depleated, but the talent has been upgraded, bigtime. Let the man work

Dont fool yourself--DW did not do this trade. hes not stupid.

your emotional and refuse to look at the facts. It was make this trade or dont get Melo. He was going to NJ. What made this trade happen over the NJ was the $18mm it saved Denver. NJ couldnt offer that. Thats the Walsh influence and ability to get a 3rd team (his minion in Minn) involved.

Walsh clearly believes in his ability to add pieces and balance the roster, and this was his goal all along. His whole MO when was hired two years ago was to clear cap space, and arrange the roster as such where he could add TWO stars to build around. Well.. he's added the two stars, now comes the build around part.

You lost players you liked. Does telling yourself it was Isiah's fault make it feel better?

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BRIGGS
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2/23/2011  9:31 AM
-->ct of the matter is -- the knicks dealt 3 somewhat promising prospects

What???

Randolph
Mosgov
Chandler
felton
Gallo

3 draft picks

AND our large cap space for next year


You guys just do not understand COLLECTIVELY what we gave up. we gave up a whole frikin team and all additional tangible assets. the last game we played and won--we ahve up 3 starters and the 6th man LOL only time in NBA history a team has done this with a winning record. we didnt get a 23 yo shaq


now we are stuck perilously thin with little ways to improve. we cant add because it will take up cap space in 2012. the best chance this team actually has is this year LOL!!!

RIP Crushalot😞
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