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The Official Bon Voyage Donnie Walsh Appreciation Thread
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misterearl
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2/21/2011  10:18 AM
How Many People Will Miss Donnie Walsh After He Resigns?

The signs are everywhere. Any time an organization needs to revert to damage control mode to correct a prevalent message or perception there is trouble. Where there is smoke there is fire and the undercover brother thing with Isiah Thomas and Dolan is not welcome news. The process of recruiting Carmelo has been tainted by too much opinion and Donnie Walsh cannot be happy about the way his plan has been subject to second-guessing.

The suits have decided another star is the only way to go, so be it.

Donnie Walsh should be commended for his work in New York to date. He made a major course correction in strategy and rebuilt consumer confidence. In the impatient world of Cablevision stakeholders and profits that is no simple task. Thank you Donnie.

Second, Walsh has done an amazing job of managing the media. His words have been measured and consistent. Whatever "sources" of speculation were never the result of direct quotes from his staff. His scouts have done a good job of evaluating talent like Shawne Williams and Landry Fields. Roger Mason seemed like a good idea at the time, but hey, nobody's perfect.

We will miss you.

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Allanfan20
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2/21/2011  10:21 AM
You have absolutely no clue if this is remotely close to true or not. Not a clue. None of us do. Why let it bother you?
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Knickoftime
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2/21/2011  10:27 AM
Allanfan20 wrote:You have absolutely no clue if this is remotely close to true or not. Not a clue. None of us do. Why let it bother you?

The falalists are wrapping themselves in the warm blanket that if all their proclamations and predictions are wrong come Thursday, that they won't be responsible, the "media" will be.

misterearl
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2/21/2011  10:28 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/21/2011  10:30 AM
Allanfan20 - you have absolutely no clue if this is remotely false or not. It bothers me because front office chaos is a recurring theme in Knicks history.

"Howard Beck of the Times, as usual, has it exactly right this morning: This is not a Donnie Walsh trade; it is a James Dolan one. Regardless of whether or not Isiah Thomas is back in charge — as Adrian Wojnarowski's terrifying Yahoo! column yesterday implied — it's clear this decision has been taken out of Walsh's hands. Forget not extending Walsh's contract: We have no idea, at this point, why he'd even want to come back."

You could look it up.

once a knick always a knick
Allanfan20
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2/21/2011  10:30 AM
misterearl wrote:Allanfan20 - you have absolutely no clue if this is remotely false or not. It bothers me because front office chaos is a recurring theme in Knicks history.

You could look it up.

There has been almost no chaos since Isiah left. How do you know there's chaos now? As for the extension, yes, Donnie needs to be extended, but why lt it bother you now? He'll get his extension. There's no way the Knicks will let him go and bring back Isiah. It would be a public relations nightmare.

“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
misterearl
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2/21/2011  10:34 AM
Allanfan -

"it's clear this decision has been taken out of Walsh's hands. Forget not extending Walsh's contract: We have no idea, at this point, why he'd even want to come back."

Until Donnie Walsh signs an extension why should that be assumed as a done deal?

"And then Jim Dolan came busting in. Convinced as always that he knows best — or anything at all, really — Dolan took the Knicks' bargaining advantage and set it on fire. (This is Dolan's way: As we put it in our mag column last week, "Walsh has put the tires back on the car. Now Dolan wants to drive again.") The Knicks went from, "The Nuggets have no choice but to trade Carmelo for whatever we want" to, "Wait, we're trading Gallinari and Chandler and Felton?" to, "We can't let Timofey Mozgov be what holds this deal up."

Dolan did this IN THE SPAN OF ONE WEEKEND.

Every piece of Knicks-Carmelo news since Friday has been depressing, one more move away from the position Walsh shrewdly put the Knicks in. The Knicks were reconstructed by patience and guile and, for once, having grownups back in charge. It took Walsh two years to clean up a decade of mess. Dolan might have undone it all in a weekend."

- NYMagazine

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MSG3
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2/21/2011  10:35 AM
If Melo is traded to the Knicks we will be closer than we have been in a very long time to fielding a Championship contender. It is amazing what lengths people will go to to crap on this deal. It's like people miss the 90's teams and pine for the days that we were always missing something, but we were this team that was built on grit and doing things from the ground up so it was ok that we never won a championship.

I hope that when the Knicks do start reaching Conference Championships again and hopefully win the whole thing people will admit that they were very foolish to doubt that the talent we are receiving in Carmelo was worth eveyrthing we gave up. Becasue if we land Melo we are only a few tweaks away from being as good as Boston and Miami. As presently constituted we are not close.

Eyes on the prize people. We want to win a ring within the next 4 seasons. This is how it's going to be done.

Silverfuel
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2/21/2011  10:35 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/21/2011  10:36 AM
Can we wait till the trade actually goes through and we have the details before speculating on these things?
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
misterearl
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2/21/2011  10:37 AM
The Answer Man Waits For No One

Q. Silverfuel - Can we wait till the trade actually goes through before speculating on these things?

A. Nope.

Speculation is what sells newspapers.

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Silverfuel
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2/21/2011  10:38 AM
misterearl wrote:The Answer Man Waits For No One

Q. Silverfuel - Can we wait till the trade actually goes through before speculating on these things?

A. Nope.

Speculation is what sells newspapers.


Thats the problem with this stuff right? So why buy the bull**** misterearl? Wait till the trade happens and we have the details.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Allanfan20
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2/21/2011  10:42 AM
misterearl wrote:Allanfan -

"it's clear this decision has been taken out of Walsh's hands. Forget not extending Walsh's contract: We have no idea, at this point, why he'd even want to come back."

Until Donnie Walsh signs an extension why should that be assumed as a done deal?

"And then Jim Dolan came busting in. Convinced as always that he knows best — or anything at all, really — Dolan took the Knicks' bargaining advantage and set it on fire. (This is Dolan's way: As we put it in our mag column last week, "Walsh has put the tires back on the car. Now Dolan wants to drive again.") The Knicks went from, "The Nuggets have no choice but to trade Carmelo for whatever we want" to, "Wait, we're trading Gallinari and Chandler and Felton?" to, "We can't let Timofey Mozgov be what holds this deal up."

Dolan did this IN THE SPAN OF ONE WEEKEND.

Every piece of Knicks-Carmelo news since Friday has been depressing, one more move away from the position Walsh shrewdly put the Knicks in. The Knicks were reconstructed by patience and guile and, for once, having grownups back in charge. It took Walsh two years to clean up a decade of mess. Dolan might have undone it all in a weekend."

- NYMagazine

Dude, you're basing your anxiety on what the newspapers say. The Knicks themselves said they had no connections. These papers are basing this crap on what they think or heard is going on. You're getting pissy and upset on rumors.

My dog probably has a better clue on what's going on behind closed doors then most of these bloggers and beat writers.

“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
misterearl
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2/21/2011  10:52 AM
Silverfuel - this is not simply about the trade but the future of the franchise. Whether the Carmelo Anthony deal goes through or not is not the issue.

This issue is whether Donnie Walsh is signed.

Who got next?

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Silverfuel
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2/21/2011  10:56 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/21/2011  10:57 AM
misterearl wrote:Silverfuel - this is not simply about the trade but the future of the franchise. Whether the Carmelo Anthony deal goes through or not is not the issue.

This issue is whether Donnie Walsh is signed.

Who got next?


The basic premise of this thread and all your posts are pure speculation. There is no proof DW is going to quit so it would be prudent to wait until he does.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
MSG3
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2/21/2011  10:56 AM
I think it'll be up to Donnie if he wants to stay. The plan was to always get 2 Max guys on this roster by the 10/11 season and then hopw to get a franchise PG later. I'm not a Dolan fan after the last 10+ years, but I strongly doubt that Donnie and Dolan have had a big amount of tension over this. Donnie knew this is what Dolan wanted and probably voiced concerns over giving up too much. But I have to believe that if Walsh was really against this he'd make it known somehow.

Maybe it's a little naive, but I really don't think Dolan is dumb enough after the last 10 years to undo all the hard work Donnie has done just to get Carmelo here if Walsh was really against it.

Moonangie
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2/21/2011  10:58 AM
MSG3 wrote:If Melo is traded to the Knicks we will be closer than we have been in a very long time to fielding a Championship contender. It is amazing what lengths people will go to to crap on this deal. It's like people miss the 90's teams and pine for the days that we were always missing something, but we were this team that was built on grit and doing things from the ground up so it was ok that we never won a championship.

I hope that when the Knicks do start reaching Conference Championships again and hopefully win the whole thing people will admit that they were very foolish to doubt that the talent we are receiving in Carmelo was worth everything we gave up. Because if we land Melo we are only a few tweaks away from being as good as Boston and Miami. As presently constituted we are not close.

Eyes on the prize people. We want to win a ring within the next 4 seasons. This is how it's going to be done.

It's statements like this that I find arrogant and a tad condescending.

Why do you assume that those of us who pinch our noses at the stank of this deal want anything less than building a contender? It is because we find this strategy flawed that makes us resist it. It is because we are sick of being also-rans that we want to make smart moves to build a contender. Donnie put us into position to NOT starphuck our way forward and now it looks like the crazies have re-emerged to do just that.

Your assumption that all we need to become a contender is gut our roster for Melo and then find scraps to build around Stat+Melo is exactly the flawed, starphuck mentality us naysayers prefer to leave in the past. Melo is NOT the only answer, he is just the flavor of the month. And he is only a scorer, not a superstar baller like LBJ.

Just keeping it real, son. We want to contend, not pretend.

misterearl
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2/21/2011  10:59 AM
"You're getting pissy and upset on rumors."

Allanfan20 - pissy and upset? How is that, in an way, relevant?

If you study Knicks history you may change tune of personal assumptions. Tension in the Knicks front office is in the DNA of the organization. It dates back to the tiff between Holzman and Eddie Donovan. Or Van Gundy and Grunfeld. This is only a cautionary tale of a repeat of the same theme.

If you have a counter argument, make it.

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JohnWallace44
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2/21/2011  11:01 AM
Regardless of what we give up, the only thing that scares me about this trade is Billups saying he won't play for the Knicks or Nets. So... Who's playing point? I guess we'd just be signing Rafer Alston or something.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
misterearl
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2/21/2011  11:05 AM
"The basic premise of this thread and all your posts are pure speculation."

Silverfuel - of course it is speculation. It is simply the type of speculation that irritates the senses. Given the progress of the NYK during his tenure, why do you think Donnie Walsh has not signed an extension?

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MSG3
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2/21/2011  11:10 AM
Not trying to be a dick or condescending. Sorry if you feel that way. All I'm saying is that we will be waiting a looooong time before we are winners if we don't take opportunities available to us. I don't want to Starphuck for the sake of starphucking, but Donnie's job was to clear cap space to do just that to an extent.

You tell me, what does this team need to win a title during Amar'e's prime? What can we add and subtract to this roster as presently constituted to make us legit competition for Miami, Boston, LA, Dallas, etc? If we wait for Paul, or Deron or Dwight we are taking a huge risk that might not pay off. We don't know what they want to do. Maybe Dwight wins a title and stays. Maybe CP3 and Dwight decide they want to go somewhere together. Maybe Utah gets a franchise player somehow and stays in Utah.

Maybe if we don't get Melo it's for the best and we build a Pistons-esque team. But maybe not. What we know is that one of the top 10 talents in the game wants to join another top 10 talent in the game on our team. When was the last time that happened? Did it ever happen? We have to take this chance. What I do know is that when Melo is added our team is instantly much better than it is now and we have a great core to add complementary pieces around. The future would be much less of a quesiton mark.

I'm frustrated because as bad as the last 10 years were it shouldn't make us affraid to take a risk like this for a franchise player. Yes, Melo is a franchise player. Where was Denver before he came? He came in and single handedly made that team into a contender. The best player he had around him at any point was Chauncey Billups. Why are we so against sending a fair package to Denver to acquire a talent like this? I'm a business man and I agree that it would be best to fleece Denver here given the situation. But it's not happening and we can't cut off our nose to spite our face. This deal has to go through and the package as it is now is more than fair. I was against including Galo AND Chandler earlier in the year, but both of them do not equal Melo.

Let's get this done and enjoy what will be a hell of a ride the next 3 years.

Moonangie
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2/21/2011  11:26 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/21/2011  11:28 AM
MSG3 wrote:Not trying to be a dick or condescending. Sorry if you feel that way. All I'm saying is that we will be waiting a looooong time before we are winners if we don't take opportunities available to us. I don't want to Starphuck for the sake of starphucking, but Donnie's job was to clear cap space to do just that to an extent.

Thanks. No offense taken. Just pointing out that there are multiple pathways forward and choosing one ONLY on the premise of an alleged "star" status isn't our best plan.

MSG3 wrote:You tell me, what does this team need to win a title during Amar'e's prime? What can we add and subtract to this roster as presently constituted to make us legit competition for Miami, Boston, LA, Dallas, etc? If we wait for Paul, or Deron or Dwight we are taking a huge risk that might not pay off. We don't know what they want to do. Maybe Dwight wins a title and stays. Maybe CP3 and Dwight decide they want to go somewhere together. Maybe Utah gets a franchise player somehow and stays in Utah.

Yes, it would involve risk waiting for those guys contracts to come due next season. But IMHO it will be less risk than gutting our current roster in a trade. We already have known assets in our roster. We also have team chemistry, which is arguably more valuable than scoring ability (e.g., team defense relies on it, so does ball movement). Mufuhs need to trust each other to share the rock and help on D. I'd call it risky to assume that Melo will improve our team in those areas. We already know he sucks at D and is average (at best) at grabbing boards.

Both DeRon and CP3 have already stated their desire to play for the Knicks. The point is that it will be a bigger and known risk gutting our roster for Melo, who adds the one thing our team already has in abundance: Scoring.

MSG3 wrote:Maybe if we don't get Melo it's for the best and we build a Pistons-esque team. But maybe not. What we know is that one of the top 10 talents in the game wants to join another top 10 talent in the game on our team. When was the last time that happened? Did it ever happen? We have to take this chance. What I do know is that when Melo is added our team is instantly much better than it is now and we have a great core to add complementary pieces around. The future would be much less of a question mark.

I'm frustrated because as bad as the last 10 years were it shouldn't make us afraid to take a risk like this for a franchise player. Yes, Melo is a franchise player. Where was Denver before he came? He came in and single- handedly made that team into a contender. The best player he had around him at any point was Chauncey Billups. Why are we so against sending a fair package to Denver to acquire a talent like this? I'm a business man and I agree that it would be best to fleece Denver here given the situation. But it's not happening and we can't cut off our nose to spite our face. This deal has to go through and the package as it is now is more than fair. I was against including Galo AND Chandler earlier in the year, but both of them do not equal Melo.

Let's get this done and enjoy what will be a hell of a ride the next 3 years.

Are you ignoring the recent ADDITION of Mozgov. As of now, Denver is asking for...

Chandler, Gallo, Curry's expiring, AR, Felton AND Mozgov, not to mention our 2014 first rounder.

Yes, adding Melo to our CURRENT team would make us better. Adding him to our team minus all those pieces would make us worse in so many ways (e.g., defense, rebounding, ball movement, team chemistry, future cap flexibility, future trade assets). Our cupboards would be bare and we'd have basically Stat/Melo/Fields to build around. That is not a smart strategy, especially when we can reject the offer and possibly get Melo while retaining our core roster.

I am not advocating for keeping our roster and making no moves. I am advocating against dealing our core roster for one volume scorer. If it was LBJ or MJ in his prime, I might reconsider. But it's not a talent on that level and it is flawed to think that Melo makes us better regardless of cost.

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The Official Bon Voyage Donnie Walsh Appreciation Thread

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