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Berger: Knicks can sign Melo in FA despite "hysterical calculations from amateur capologists" (good article)
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crzymdups
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2/16/2011  1:02 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/16/2011  1:03 PM
Good summation of where Walsh is at right now on the Melo trade. And despite people here saying there wouldn't be enough room to sign Melo in the off-season, Berger and NBA GMs think the Knicks can sign Melo in the off-season.

Good article.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/14697636/trade-buzz-swap-not-only-way-melo-ends-up-with-knicks

Trade buzz: Swap not only way Melo may end up with Knicks

By Ken Berger
CBSSports.com Senior Writer
Feb. 16, 2011Tell Ken your opinion!

In New York, a concrete jungle with no grip on sports reality, the common theme over the past few weeks has been that Knicks president Donnie Walsh must move heaven and Earth to get Carmelo Anthony by Feb. 24 or his regime will have been a failure.

That chuckling you hear in the background is coming from Walsh, who at almost 70 has been around too long to take note of such absurdities. Despite the incoherent reasoning of those who ascribe to the Melo-or-bust theory, Walsh knows you don't panic when you hold all the cards.

Walsh knows what I've told you for months, that the Nuggets essentially are negotiating with one team. Walsh is not budging in his refusal to gut his roster to acquire a player he can simply sign as a free agent after the season. And despite some hysterical calculations from amateur capologists everywhere, sources say it's inconceivable that the Knicks wouldn't have enough room for free-agent Melo regardless of how the collective bargaining agreement turns out.


"I don't care what the cap comes in at, they can get the guy," one rival executive said. "I've done the math a million times."

The Knicks have $44 million in salary committed for 2011-12, and that includes $8 million to $10 million in non-expiring contracts that would be going to Denver in an Anthony trade. It also includes Anthony Randolph ($2.9 million), who either will be going to Denver or Minnesota in the next week. If the Knicks get Anthony in an extend-and-trade before June 30, cap space for him is a non-issue; Anthony's $18.5 million salary for next season would kick in. The issue would be having flexibility to put more pieces around Anthony and Amar'e Stoudemire -- which is yet another item the short-sighted Melo-now crowd ignores.

In many ways, it would be more advantageous to Anthony and the Knicks to unite via free agency. For one, Walsh wouldn't have to give up any pieces of a young nucleus that has shown promise at times this season. For another, a max free-agent deal that presumably will start a few million shy of the $18.5 million Anthony is on the books for next season would help the Knicks add to the roster over the next two years.

For illustrative purposes, I give the floor to Chris Paul, who recently explained how determined today's NBA stars are to follow the blueprint set forth by LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh last summer.

"Guys just want to try to win a championship," Paul said. "No reason more than that. In this league, a lot of times what people fail to realize is that, at times it's less about the money and more about winning. Sometimes it's overlooked. Those guys this summer gave up a lot of money to try to play together on the same team."

Which brings us to another fallacy in the Melo-mania that has engulfed New York. There are those blabbing on the radio, scribbling in print, and yakking away in taxicabs all over the city who believe the Knicks would be a championship-caliber team simply by pairing Anthony with Stoudemire -- regardless of how many players they had to give up. These people are beyond hope. Unfortunately for Walsh, Madison Square Garden chairman James Dolan may be one of them.

There are those who fear that if Walsh "failed" to get Anthony by the deadline -- which, as we've just explained, actually could be considered a victory -- then Dolan might step in and go over his basketball man's head to cut a foolish deal with Denver. Dolan will be on the loose at All-Star festivities in Los Angeles later this week, and it's a safe bet he runs into someone named Kroenke -- be it Josh, the acting owner, or Stan, the guy many people believe still is calling the shots. Be very afraid, Knick fans.

Even if that doesn't work, others theorize that it will be former Knicks president Isiah Thomas -- and not Walsh -- who will get the credit when the Knicks finally get Anthony as a free agent over the summer. Thomas still has Dolan's ear, is as power-hungry as ever and would love nothing more than being able to paint himself as the savior in New York. Even if it meant undercutting the man who saved his career in Indiana and who treated him with dignity and respect upon replacing him with the Knicks.

"What'll happen is, Isiah will ride in and take credit for this due to his relationship with Carmelo, which is non-existent," a rival executive said. "It'll be, 'Donnie couldn't get it done, but thank God for Isiah and William Wesley and Carmelo!'"

Internal Garden politics notwithstanding, the upshot here is that the negotiating table is tilted decidedly in the Knicks' favor. Walsh isn't going to bow to Denver's demands because he knows he can get his guy in a way that will allow him to fill other more pressing needs on the roster -- such as a capable defensive center to protect the $100 million investment Walsh made last summer in Stoudemire. Yes, that's another item lost in all the Melo-centric hysteria. Anthony will take some of the scoring load away from Stoudemire, but won't help him in the paint on the defensive end.

In the meantime, Walsh gazes in amazement at the alternate reality around him, while the Nuggets continue to live in their own.

"Denver's got to be getting nervous here pretty soon," a rival executive said. "You can only play poker with [New York] so much before you become Toronto or Cleveland."

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eViL
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2/16/2011  1:12 PM
i have to say it again. it will be comical, isiah level mismanagement, for the knicks to trade valuable assets for a player they can sign outright.
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franco12
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2/16/2011  1:12 PM
This should be required reading before anyone starts posting any more Melo threads or responses about giving up the farm.
nyshakespeare
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2/16/2011  1:23 PM
I trust Donnie to do the right thing...anything else is all on "Baby Huey" Dolan.
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DrAlphaeus
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2/16/2011  1:30 PM
Berger, crzy, evil & franco speak the truth. Co-sign.
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SupremeCommander
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2/16/2011  2:16 PM
part of me would like to see what happens after the deadline, and if the cash is important to Melo. No way of knowing what he wants more: NY or cash. All this analysis always focuses on Denver and New York. There is a third party here.
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NYKBocker
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2/16/2011  2:30 PM
Yup Yup.
umynot
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2/16/2011  2:46 PM
I have refrained from answering on all the Melo chatter cause I actually like our team

Getting Melo makes us Better NO DOUBT!!...... But as the article says gutting team doesn't

I for one don't trade Gallo at any cost and if he is part of price I would wait till summer and try signing Melo
as a FA and save a few dollars in process!

I'm hoping Denver caves and settles for Wilson AR Curry plus Cash and picks other then that I wait!!

KNICKS on the way UP!!!
crzymdups
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2/16/2011  4:06 PM
This thread is like the only sane Melo thread... and therefore the most boring one.
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K22
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2/16/2011  4:08 PM
crzymdups wrote:This thread is like the only sane Melo thread... and therefore the most boring one.

Jinx.

-- the preceding post was brought to you by the letter K and the number 22.
eViL
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2/16/2011  4:12 PM
crzymdups wrote:This thread is like the only sane Melo thread... and therefore the most boring one.

i was thinking the same thing. every time an article comes out suggesting that he'll sign the extension and stay in denver, or that a trade proposal has been rejected, or that a counter has been made, or that the counter was rejected -- it's a 10 page thread about how we're losing out; how donnie's dropping the ball. when a couple of pieces come out suggesting that waiting might be the best plan of all, it's crickets.

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crzymdups
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2/16/2011  4:50 PM
eViL wrote:
crzymdups wrote:This thread is like the only sane Melo thread... and therefore the most boring one.

i was thinking the same thing. every time an article comes out suggesting that he'll sign the extension and stay in denver, or that a trade proposal has been rejected, or that a counter has been made, or that the counter was rejected -- it's a 10 page thread about how we're losing out; how donnie's dropping the ball. when a couple of pieces come out suggesting that waiting might be the best plan of all, it's crickets.

yup. unfortunately, i think dolan belongs in the "gimme a new toy now!" camp. dolan has never worked for anything in his life, he's just been handed stuff, so he doesn't know the value of patience and perseverance.

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Nalod
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2/16/2011  5:14 PM

If Dolan jumps over walsh on this one Walsh should just resign.

We should all resign to the fact its an entertainment company and winning is not as relevent at keeping the team "interesting".

Its then about ratings then winning. We'll be a good team, just suspect on its intentions.

TMS
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2/16/2011  5:54 PM
"I don't care what the cap comes in at, they can get the guy," one rival executive said. "I've done the math a million times."

The Knicks have $44 million in salary committed for 2011-12, and that includes $8 million to $10 million in non-expiring contracts that would be going to Denver in an Anthony trade. It also includes Anthony Randolph ($2.9 million), who either will be going to Denver or Minnesota in the next week. If the Knicks get Anthony in an extend-and-trade before June 30, cap space for him is a non-issue; Anthony's $18.5 million salary for next season would kick in. The issue would be having flexibility to put more pieces around Anthony and Amar'e Stoudemire -- which is yet another item the short-sighted Melo-now crowd ignores.

ok so since none of you want to bother to actually DO the math instead of just accepting something somebody writes up on the internet as fact because he cites a "source" & would rather complain about hearing crickets on this, i'll give it a go:

Knicks committed salaries for 2011-12:

Amare $18,217,705
Felton $7,500,000
Turiaf $4,360,000
Gallo $4,190,182
Timo $2,566,800
AR $2,911,231
TD $1,145,640
Rautins $788,872
Fields $788,872

unless my calculator is broken, that comes out to $42,469,302 for 9 roster spots... that doesn't even include Wilson Chandler's contract, who we will obviously have to renounce to have any shot at all of signing Melo to a max contract, & doesn't include the other 3 roster spot cap holds, including our 1st rd pick caphold, which in total i am assuming will come in at around $2M in total... so altogether this comes out to the $44.5M in committed cap figure the author cites in this article for next season... that much i think we can all agree upon, amateur & professional capologists alike.

now if u will can one of you Miss Cleo's tell me what the exact salary cap figure will be in a new CBA that has yet to be negotiated? obviously not... so let's go off based on this year's salary cap figure, which is $58M... simple math tells me $58M minus $44.5M leaves you with $13.5M... can any of you non-hysterical professional capologists out there tell me what a max contract will come in at the first year? something tells me that figure won't come anywhere close to $13.5M... & all things i've read leading up to this summer has the cap figure coming down if anything, so we might have even less cap space to work with this summer.

please someone enlighten this amateur capologist what i'm missing here... i just don't see how we can fit Melo's max salary on the books without dumping more salary for next season.

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DrAlphaeus
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2/16/2011  6:14 PM
TMS, I think the assumption in this article is AR is moved for a pick -- so - $2.9M -- and that Melo backloads the contract?

To be honest, I rather just read an article that sounds reasonable and tells me "don't panic" at this point than do math or bug out everyday at every trade rumor. Yawn.

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TMS
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2/16/2011  6:19 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/16/2011  6:22 PM
DrAlphaeus wrote:TMS, I think the assumption in this article is AR is moved for a pick -- so - $2.9M -- and that Melo backloads the contract?

To be honest, I rather just read an article that sounds reasonable and tells me "don't panic" at this point than do math or bug out everyday at every trade rumor. Yawn.

Ok Doc, fair enough... so in fact, this article is just reinforcing the point that all of us amateur hysterical capologists have been making all along, that the Knicks will have to renounce Wilson C's contract & clear another $3-4M off the books in order to have enough cap space to sign Melo to a max contract... so why is this guy going off insulting people who actually have bothered to do the math & offered up possible solutions to get Melo to NY meanwhile he's just reiterating what we've been saying all along anyway? sounds like a piece written by someone posting on these forums cuz they're sick of reading all the Melo threads to me... to that i would suggest an easy solution to this problem, don't read them. (& i don't direct that at you Alphaeus i always respect ur viewpoints, but enough with the complaining about the Melo threads, NY fans are gonna talk about this until the issue gets settled, everyone needs to accept it)

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DrAlphaeus
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2/16/2011  6:25 PM
Well I guess you've got the Berger-types on one side saying "chill idiots!", Steven A. saying "worry idiots!", and us semi-reasonable suckers in the fanbase in the middle?
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TMS
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2/16/2011  6:33 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/16/2011  6:33 PM
DrAlphaeus wrote:Well I guess you've got the Berger-types on one side saying "chill idiots!", Steven A. saying "worry idiots!", and us semi-reasonable suckers in the fanbase in the middle?

apparently so dude... none of us get paid to offer up our opinions, so i guess that makes us all amateurs eh?

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crzymdups
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2/16/2011  7:42 PM
TMS wrote:
"I don't care what the cap comes in at, they can get the guy," one rival executive said. "I've done the math a million times."

The Knicks have $44 million in salary committed for 2011-12, and that includes $8 million to $10 million in non-expiring contracts that would be going to Denver in an Anthony trade. It also includes Anthony Randolph ($2.9 million), who either will be going to Denver or Minnesota in the next week. If the Knicks get Anthony in an extend-and-trade before June 30, cap space for him is a non-issue; Anthony's $18.5 million salary for next season would kick in. The issue would be having flexibility to put more pieces around Anthony and Amar'e Stoudemire -- which is yet another item the short-sighted Melo-now crowd ignores.

ok so since none of you want to bother to actually DO the math instead of just accepting something somebody writes up on the internet as fact because he cites a "source" & would rather complain about hearing crickets on this, i'll give it a go:

Knicks committed salaries for 2011-12:

Amare $18,217,705
Felton $7,500,000
Turiaf $4,360,000
Gallo $4,190,182
Timo $2,566,800
AR $2,911,231
TD $1,145,640
Rautins $788,872
Fields $788,872

unless my calculator is broken, that comes out to $42,469,302 for 9 roster spots... that doesn't even include Wilson Chandler's contract, who we will obviously have to renounce to have any shot at all of signing Melo to a max contract, & doesn't include the other 3 roster spot cap holds, including our 1st rd pick caphold, which in total i am assuming will come in at around $2M in total... so altogether this comes out to the $44.5M in committed cap figure the author cites in this article for next season... that much i think we can all agree upon, amateur & professional capologists alike.

now if u will can one of you Miss Cleo's tell me what the exact salary cap figure will be in a new CBA that has yet to be negotiated? obviously not... so let's go off based on this year's salary cap figure, which is $58M... simple math tells me $58M minus $44.5M leaves you with $13.5M... can any of you non-hysterical professional capologists out there tell me what a max contract will come in at the first year? something tells me that figure won't come anywhere close to $13.5M... & all things i've read leading up to this summer has the cap figure coming down if anything, so we might have even less cap space to work with this summer.

please someone enlighten this amateur capologist what i'm missing here... i just don't see how we can fit Melo's max salary on the books without dumping more salary for next season.

oh look, an amateur capologist.

why do you assume that you know more about the cap than guys who actually get the league financials and have an inkling about what the cap will be next year.

there are always doomsday predictions about the cap - they are almost never true.

also, if you think AR will be on the cap come July 1, you are wrong. if he doesn't go in a Melo trade he will be traded to Minnesota for a first round pick. bank on that.

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TMS
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2/16/2011  8:00 PM
crzymdups wrote:
TMS wrote:
"I don't care what the cap comes in at, they can get the guy," one rival executive said. "I've done the math a million times."

The Knicks have $44 million in salary committed for 2011-12, and that includes $8 million to $10 million in non-expiring contracts that would be going to Denver in an Anthony trade. It also includes Anthony Randolph ($2.9 million), who either will be going to Denver or Minnesota in the next week. If the Knicks get Anthony in an extend-and-trade before June 30, cap space for him is a non-issue; Anthony's $18.5 million salary for next season would kick in. The issue would be having flexibility to put more pieces around Anthony and Amar'e Stoudemire -- which is yet another item the short-sighted Melo-now crowd ignores.

ok so since none of you want to bother to actually DO the math instead of just accepting something somebody writes up on the internet as fact because he cites a "source" & would rather complain about hearing crickets on this, i'll give it a go:

Knicks committed salaries for 2011-12:

Amare $18,217,705
Felton $7,500,000
Turiaf $4,360,000
Gallo $4,190,182
Timo $2,566,800
AR $2,911,231
TD $1,145,640
Rautins $788,872
Fields $788,872

unless my calculator is broken, that comes out to $42,469,302 for 9 roster spots... that doesn't even include Wilson Chandler's contract, who we will obviously have to renounce to have any shot at all of signing Melo to a max contract, & doesn't include the other 3 roster spot cap holds, including our 1st rd pick caphold, which in total i am assuming will come in at around $2M in total... so altogether this comes out to the $44.5M in committed cap figure the author cites in this article for next season... that much i think we can all agree upon, amateur & professional capologists alike.

now if u will can one of you Miss Cleo's tell me what the exact salary cap figure will be in a new CBA that has yet to be negotiated? obviously not... so let's go off based on this year's salary cap figure, which is $58M... simple math tells me $58M minus $44.5M leaves you with $13.5M... can any of you non-hysterical professional capologists out there tell me what a max contract will come in at the first year? something tells me that figure won't come anywhere close to $13.5M... & all things i've read leading up to this summer has the cap figure coming down if anything, so we might have even less cap space to work with this summer.

please someone enlighten this amateur capologist what i'm missing here... i just don't see how we can fit Melo's max salary on the books without dumping more salary for next season.

oh look, an amateur capologist.

why do you assume that you know more about the cap than guys who actually get the league financials and have an inkling about what the cap will be next year.

there are always doomsday predictions about the cap - they are almost never true.

also, if you think AR will be on the cap come July 1, you are wrong. if he doesn't go in a Melo trade he will be traded to Minnesota for a first round pick. bank on that.

i don't assume anything... i'm putting the math out there for everyone to see... if u know of something i'm interpreting wrong here let me know... if Ken Berger knows something we amateurs don't, how about outlining the error rather than reiterating what amateurs like myself have been saying all along & then calling us amateurs for saying it? this article is nothing more than an insult ridden condescending piece he's bringing absolutely nothing new to the table that everyone doesn't already know & that hasn't already been talked about ad nauseum.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Berger: Knicks can sign Melo in FA despite "hysterical calculations from amateur capologists" (good article)

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