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knicks should follow packers
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knicks1248
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2/6/2011  11:07 PM
I have been a die hard knickfan and packer fan for 20 yrs....3 years ago Bret farve said this was the most talented team he has been around in his entire packer career( people thought he was crazy), 80% of the roster were rookies or 1 year players at the time..

They never went outside the box to sign big name FA (other then C woodson) since MM took over the coaching gig ted thomas took over the GM..these guys have the best scouting staff i have ever witness, build with in the draft and are currently poise to be a dynasty for the next 3 season.

They have the top TE (J finely) who miss the entire season coming back and a top 5 running back (ryan grant..giants gave up on him) who also miss the season.

I think if walsh can stay the course, don't give up too much for melo (my C woodson) develope fields ( my clay matthews) we can really build something thats not one and done...You got to be deep to go deep into your season


I'm so excited tonight cuase my love for the pack is as equal as my love for the knicks..I wish you guys could feel this..

ES
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nixluva
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2/6/2011  11:16 PM
Donnie is very smart and not prone to rash decisions. He's held out this long and been extremely patient. My guess is that we'll make a deal that is not going to give away the store. Already it feels like this is the right direction from what we've been reading of the proposed deal. If we keep Gallo and Fields it's a huge win.
AnubisADL
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2/6/2011  11:54 PM
NBA Playoff series is best of 7.

NFL Playoffs is 1 game.

NY Knicks - Retirement home for players and GMs
nixluva
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2/7/2011  12:22 AM
AnubisADL wrote:NBA Playoff series is best of 7.

NFL Playoffs is 1 game.

His post was about constructing a title team, not the playoff system of each sport.

We have a mostly young team and will continue to be so due to having so many young guys as key parts of the rotation. WIth the addition of Melo it should help to accelerate the teams progress and give us a chance to get further in the playoffs even this year.
Paladin55
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2/7/2011  2:14 AM
Sorry, I thought this thread was about the Knicks trying to pick up a player from the University of Buffalo(my alma mater), like the Packers did when they took their running back, James Starks.
No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
knicks1248
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2/7/2011  2:51 AM
Paladin55 wrote:Sorry, I thought this thread was about the Knicks trying to pick up a player from the University of Buffalo(my alma mater), like the Packers did when they took their running back, James Starks.

Nice try, but no...Nix is right, study the making of that franchise from top to bottom.

High character guys, finding talent like rodgers, matthews, raji...they drafted 95% of there players..

Walked away from a legend who at the time was still primed to make anther run

The knicks have something going, they need to develope these guys and keep our core young, with high character ( so important) high IQ players like fields and Gallo..I just hope they give up our youth for melo..I would love to keep AR for another 2 seasons, but he would be the only one i sacrifice.

Losing WC, Fields, gallo felton or Mosgov would be a set back in some ways..

ES
JimboJones
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2/7/2011  3:24 AM
The NBA doesn't work the same as the NFL. Since rosters are 53 deep in the NFL, teams have to be built mostly through the draft. And with a 7-round format, teams have more to choose from. If you miss in the first round, there's at least six more selections with which you can find someone good. In the NBA, the stars almost have to align. A team has to suck badly in the same year a franchise player is available and then hope some lottery balls pop up in their favor (which is a stupid system, but that's for another time). Team A stinks and the lottery doesn't go as hoped, they're picking 13th. And at that point, a GM and scouting department can select the best player left on the board and he turns out to be a decent role player; a sixth man. And the team still sucks. My point is, you can't make a NFL/NBA team building comparison.

Secondly... Since when is Ryan Grant a top 5 running back?
tj23
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2/7/2011  4:10 AM
Congrats on the victory, but you are probably the only person who thinks Grant is a top 5 rb, or even top 15 honestly.
AmsterdamKnicksFan
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2/7/2011  5:32 AM
Gongrats on the win. In no way, shape or form is grant a top5 back though. Top 20, and that's mostly because of the offense around him..
gr33d
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2/7/2011  6:30 AM
JimboJones wrote:The NBA doesn't work the same as the NFL. Since rosters are 53 deep in the NFL, teams have to be built mostly through the draft. And with a 7-round format, teams have more to choose from. If you miss in the first round, there's at least six more selections with which you can find someone good. In the NBA, the stars almost have to align. A team has to suck badly in the same year a franchise player is available and then hope some lottery balls pop up in their favor (which is a stupid system, but that's for another time). Team A stinks and the lottery doesn't go as hoped, they're picking 13th. And at that point, a GM and scouting department can select the best player left on the board and he turns out to be a decent role player; a sixth man. And the team still sucks. My point is, you can't make a NFL/NBA team building comparison.

Secondly... Since when is Ryan Grant a top 5 running back?

If you could only dump players and contracts in the NBA, like they do in the NFL...

"If you ain't first, you're last" - Ricky Bobby
franco12
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2/7/2011  8:10 AM
gr33d wrote:
JimboJones wrote:The NBA doesn't work the same as the NFL. Since rosters are 53 deep in the NFL, teams have to be built mostly through the draft. And with a 7-round format, teams have more to choose from. If you miss in the first round, there's at least six more selections with which you can find someone good. In the NBA, the stars almost have to align. A team has to suck badly in the same year a franchise player is available and then hope some lottery balls pop up in their favor (which is a stupid system, but that's for another time). Team A stinks and the lottery doesn't go as hoped, they're picking 13th. And at that point, a GM and scouting department can select the best player left on the board and he turns out to be a decent role player; a sixth man. And the team still sucks. My point is, you can't make a NFL/NBA team building comparison.

Secondly... Since when is Ryan Grant a top 5 running back?

If you could only dump players and contracts in the NBA, like they do in the NFL...

Not disagreeing with the main premise- but additionally foot ball is a much more team driven affair vs. influenced by any one player like in the NBA.

We can talk about the Pistons, but invariably, the single best talent on the court tends to win the game.
Killa4luv
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2/7/2011  5:14 PM
JimboJones wrote:The NBA doesn't work the same as the NFL. Since rosters are 53 deep in the NFL, teams have to be built mostly through the draft. And with a 7-round format, teams have more to choose from. If you miss in the first round, there's at least six more selections with which you can find someone good. In the NBA, the stars almost have to align. A team has to suck badly in the same year a franchise player is available and then hope some lottery balls pop up in their favor (which is a stupid system, but that's for another time). Team A stinks and the lottery doesn't go as hoped, they're picking 13th. And at that point, a GM and scouting department can select the best player left on the board and he turns out to be a decent role player; a sixth man. And the team still sucks. My point is, you can't make a NFL/NBA team building comparison.

Secondly... Since when is Ryan Grant a top 5 running back?

I agree with everything you wrote. I almost spit out my drink when I read that Ryan Grant is top 5. But hey, he's a packer fan, and he overrates his teams players, not unlike what many of us do here.

The comparison between NFL and NBA fails on many many levels. Too many to list.
The talent pool in NBA drafts is also greatly diminished at this time. Is there a truly great center in college right now? There are tons of good to great prospects at multiple positions in College football. The draft is a different beast, the game itself is a different beast.

But obviously we want to draft well. Also the average career of an NFL player is 3.7 years. There is a lot of movement in and out of the league. More chances to get the kind of player ur looking for if u scout well.
knicks1248
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2/7/2011  6:54 PM
I'm not comparing apples and oranges here, the model of the franchise and how they get quality pieces that fit.
I know the NFL and NBA have different methods, but when all is said and done, it's a team sport dominated by young talent, and young talent can easily be looked at in all the wrong ways, like drafting Oden instead of Durant.

What makes ryan grant a top 5 back is based on the players he is surrounded by and the system he's playing in, no he is not top 5 talent, but he will put up top 5 #s playing with those recievers, TE, and QB any day of the week.

Look at raymond felton, he's almost doubled his production in this system then he has in any other system since his NBA debut..There was a rumuor that DENVER considered the players we have are a product of MDA's system, and that there not that good. while this may have a little truth to it, it's also the same reason why Melo wants out, they don't know wtf there doing.

The greenbay packers do there homework, or i should say the GM, coach, and scouting team are on the same page all the time, like the spurs... They may have 1 or 2 bad seasons, but come back strong and focus from top to bottom.
In the last 5 years the packers finish a top the standings or at worse the middle, they some how drafted a franchise QB late in the first round, heck Donlad driver was a sixth rnd pick , clay mathews, greg jennings..some of the key guys on the field yesterday were either cut by other teams, or came from the practice squad..

When Ryan went down, the bills were dangling RB lynch for a 3rd or 4th round pick, they said no, put the ball in an unproven rookie (starks) hands who had not played in the 1st 6 games, and a full back(kuhn) converted to RB, hell the gave up on Bret for an unproven Arod, this is coming off a season where you miss the superbowl by one boneheaded pass.

Walsh and MDA seem like they know what there doing, there patient...last year I could not get Why TMS was so oppose to donnie giving up the picks for Mcgrady, but then again we have not been very good at drafting or atleast not consistant The scouting staff has done a really good job as of late, But then you have guys like Andy and AR, and a coach like MDA who has such a short leash, and you start to wonder why borther aquiring guys you have no use for.

The packers have a roster full of Landry fields cause they do the home work..

ES
MSG3
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2/7/2011  8:36 PM
Giants gave up on Grant because he sucks. Impressive what the Oack did without a running game and Finley.
TMS
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2/7/2011  9:17 PM
knicks1248 wrote:Walsh and MDA seem like they know what there doing, there patient...last year I could not get Why TMS was so oppose to donnie giving up the picks for Mcgrady, but then again we have not been very good at drafting or atleast not consistant The scouting staff has done a really good job as of late, But then you have guys like Andy and AR, and a coach like MDA who has such a short leash, and you start to wonder why borther aquiring guys you have no use for.

the issue i have is when we give up picks to dump salary with nothing else in hand... i think we need to value our assets & use them wisely, not give them away to clear cap unless we have a guarantee that we're ending up with something out of it... if the issue is whether to trade picks to get an established star player in his prime that has no baggage or health concerns like Melo to NY, i take that established star player 100 times out of 100... draft picks are a crap shoot, we already know this from our experience w/Jordan Hill, but they're still valuable we need to be smart about how we utilize them.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
knicks1248
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2/7/2011  10:14 PM
TMS wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Walsh and MDA seem like they know what there doing, there patient...last year I could not get Why TMS was so oppose to donnie giving up the picks for Mcgrady, but then again we have not been very good at drafting or atleast not consistant The scouting staff has done a really good job as of late, But then you have guys like Andy and AR, and a coach like MDA who has such a short leash, and you start to wonder why borther aquiring guys you have no use for.

the issue i have is when we give up picks to dump salary with nothing else in hand... i think we need to value our assets & use them wisely, not give them away to clear cap unless we have a guarantee that we're ending up with something out of it... if the issue is whether to trade picks to get an established star player in his prime that has no baggage or health concerns like Melo to NY, i take that established star player 100 times out of 100... draft picks are a crap shoot, we already know this from our experience w/Jordan Hill, but they're still valuable we need to be smart about how we utilize them.

Im just saying, there are franchise who do it right, and there are those who can't get it right.
The draft is a crap shoot when you don't do your home work..

ES
babyKnicks
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2/7/2011  10:22 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
TMS wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Walsh and MDA seem like they know what there doing, there patient...last year I could not get Why TMS was so oppose to donnie giving up the picks for Mcgrady, but then again we have not been very good at drafting or atleast not consistant The scouting staff has done a really good job as of late, But then you have guys like Andy and AR, and a coach like MDA who has such a short leash, and you start to wonder why borther aquiring guys you have no use for.

the issue i have is when we give up picks to dump salary with nothing else in hand... i think we need to value our assets & use them wisely, not give them away to clear cap unless we have a guarantee that we're ending up with something out of it... if the issue is whether to trade picks to get an established star player in his prime that has no baggage or health concerns like Melo to NY, i take that established star player 100 times out of 100... draft picks are a crap shoot, we already know this from our experience w/Jordan Hill, but they're still valuable we need to be smart about how we utilize them.

Im just saying, there are franchise who do it right, and there are those who can't get it right.
The draft is a crap shoot when you don't do your home work..

I think you mean DID it right 1 out of every 10 years. :-)

Let's go Knicks. That's amare
scoshin
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2/8/2011  10:09 AM
So we just ignore the fact that these are two completely different sports, with different salary structures, and basketball being the more star-driven of the two? Why not follow the model of the Lakers, Celtics, and Miami, the 3 title favorites, who pretty much assembled their team via a mega-trade or FA signing for a star?

Building an NBA team is not the same as building an NFL roster.
knicks1248
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2/8/2011  10:57 AM
scoshin wrote:So we just ignore the fact that these are two completely different sports, with different salary structures, and basketball being the more star-driven of the two? Why not follow the model of the Lakers, Celtics, and Miami, the 3 title favorites, who pretty much assembled their team via a mega-trade or FA signing for a star?

Building an NBA team is not the same as building an NFL roster.

80% of the spurs roster were drafted by the spurs, they usually pick up one maybe 2 mid level players during the off season..

ES
SupremeCommander
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2/8/2011  11:05 AM
knicks1248 wrote:a top 5 running back (ryan grant..giants gave up on him)

Giants didn't give up on him--they were LOADED at the position. The Giants RBs were a huge reason why the team won the Super Bowl the same season they traded Grant. So they probably would've cut him because of how many backs they carried and were able to get value for him.

I know that's not your point but that was the deal

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
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