We have the 6 seed all but locked up pretty much as long as we hover around .500 .
With that kind of security, and a playoff appearance virtually locked, what are his goals?

We are as far from the 5th seed as we are from 7th seed and it would take alot more for us to get to 5 than 7.

Given all of that, why play are core guys so much? Why aren't guys like Timo (and to a lessor extent AR) on the floor getting minutes, developing their games, getting comfortable in game time situations?

I mean, what do we have to lose give these guys some minutes? A few games? I doubt it, but even so, we'd have to really suck to lose the 6th seed, much less miss the actual playoffs.

I just dont get it. I think its shortsightedness, but then again, I think we have the wrong coach in the long haul. He has done a good job with the roster as constructed, but I don't want us building a roster to fit his system.

CrushAlot wrote:Great post. I agree with everything you said. My guess is Amare plays 38+ minutes tomorrow and Chandler is back early because of the Williams suspension. I think it was very evident last year when the coach had a roster of limited vets competing for nothing and still played them over the young guys because he wanted to make the playoffs despite that not being a realistic goal by the end of November that D'Antoni isn't and never will be interested in coaching, teaching and developing young players that aren't NBA ready coming out of the draft. D'Antoni is all about playing his most mature guys that don't need coaching or development. I also worry about Amare's health. He is a beast, works incredibly hard to be in condition to overpower the opposition, but has had some major injuries. He is never going to ask out to save himself for the playoffs so he needs a coach to do that. I like watching the Knicks again and try to plan around games. However, I think there are some things that are fundamentally wrong with D'Antoni as a coach and I don't think the Knicks should build a flawed team to suit his flawed philosophy.

Fields - 22
Danilo - 22
Chandler - 23
Walker - 23
Williams - 24
TD - 24
Timo - 24

NONE OF THESE PLAYERS ARE FINISHED PRODUCTS!!! All of these guys are or were in the rotation this year. MDA is coaching these guys and developing them. Gallo has progressively been more and more aggressive going to the basket as the season has progressed. Have you forgotten how Gallo looked to start the year? Basically each and every one of these guys is getting coached up by MDA. There is ZERO evidence to support your contention. In fact just the opposite has been proven this season.

I think that style really motivates a player to work hard on their weaknesses. If they get playing time without earning it, you end up losing your best motivation for the players to really work hard on their problems. Why play AR before he has the self discipline to do what the team needs, and stop shooting bad percentage shots? Mosgov is working hard on his skills and will get another opportunity to play when he is ready.

I like the concept that playing in the games is something you earn, rather than something you get because you have potential.
Every player on the floor has an obligation to all of the other players on the court, to do his best and help the team win. Why would you want to let someone play who is not ready? Your approach sends a message to the team that winning this game is simply not that important. Building for the future, is another way of saying not concentrating on winning now. Before you break into Mike's rotation, you have to prove you will not damage the teams ability to win. Whats wrong with that message?

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Great post. I agree with everything you said. My guess is Amare plays 38+ minutes tomorrow and Chandler is back early because of the Williams suspension. I think it was very evident last year when the coach had a roster of limited vets competing for nothing and still played them over the young guys because he wanted to make the playoffs despite that not being a realistic goal by the end of November that D'Antoni isn't and never will be interested in coaching, teaching and developing young players that aren't NBA ready coming out of the draft. D'Antoni is all about playing his most mature guys that don't need coaching or development. I also worry about Amare's health. He is a beast, works incredibly hard to be in condition to overpower the opposition, but has had some major injuries. He is never going to ask out to save himself for the playoffs so he needs a coach to do that. I like watching the Knicks again and try to plan around games. However, I think there are some things that are fundamentally wrong with D'Antoni as a coach and I don't think the Knicks should build a flawed team to suit his flawed philosophy.

Fields - 22
Danilo - 22
Chandler - 23
Walker - 23
Williams - 24
TD - 24
Timo - 24

NONE OF THESE PLAYERS ARE FINISHED PRODUCTS!!! All of these guys are or were in the rotation this year. MDA is coaching these guys and developing them. Gallo has progressively been more and more aggressive going to the basket as the season has progressed. Have you forgotten how Gallo looked to start the year? Basically each and every one of these guys is getting coached up by MDA. There is ZERO evidence to support your contention. In fact just the opposite has been proven this season.

Papabear Says

Nixluva: I know you like Mike D but he is not a good coach. Would a good coach let his franchise player get banged up night after night without out a big to help him or give him rest time.? Would a good coach take personal vendetas against his players. Would a good coach allow us to be out rebound night after night and don't ajust the problem. Would a good coach with over 60 wins a season be forced out because he couldn't win the big one with his game plan?

1 A good coach should protect his franchise player pulling him out of games and making him rest: Mike D don't
2 A good coach will work with young players who have potential but need guidence. Mike D don't
3 A good coach won't just gamble with the 3 point shot and hope the other team miss. Mike D dosen't care.
3 A good coach will make his team play defense 4 quarters. Mike D don't
4 A good coach with 60 wins would not get the boot. Mike D did
5 A good coach would hire a good defensive coach. Mike D did not.

Mike D will not get us to the promised land.

loweyecue wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Great post. I agree with everything you said. My guess is Amare plays 38+ minutes tomorrow and Chandler is back early because of the Williams suspension. I think it was very evident last year when the coach had a roster of limited vets competing for nothing and still played them over the young guys because he wanted to make the playoffs despite that not being a realistic goal by the end of November that D'Antoni isn't and never will be interested in coaching, teaching and developing young players that aren't NBA ready coming out of the draft. D'Antoni is all about playing his most mature guys that don't need coaching or development. I also worry about Amare's health. He is a beast, works incredibly hard to be in condition to overpower the opposition, but has had some major injuries. He is never going to ask out to save himself for the playoffs so he needs a coach to do that. I like watching the Knicks again and try to plan around games. However, I think there are some things that are fundamentally wrong with D'Antoni as a coach and I don't think the Knicks should build a flawed team to suit his flawed philosophy.

Fields - 22
Danilo - 22
Chandler - 23
Walker - 23
Williams - 24
TD - 24
Timo - 24

NONE OF THESE PLAYERS ARE FINISHED PRODUCTS!!! All of these guys are or were in the rotation this year. MDA is coaching these guys and developing them. Gallo has progressively been more and more aggressive going to the basket as the season has progressed. Have you forgotten how Gallo looked to start the year? Basically each and every one of these guys is getting coached up by MDA. There is ZERO evidence to support your contention. In fact just the opposite has been proven this season.

Facts cannot sway opinions especially when they are formed out of malice. There are all the players you listed that has been coached by MDA, but lets ignore that and whine about Jordan Hill and pronounce generalizations insead. Talk about having blinders on!

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Great post. I agree with everything you said. My guess is Amare plays 38+ minutes tomorrow and Chandler is back early because of the Williams suspension. I think it was very evident last year when the coach had a roster of limited vets competing for nothing and still played them over the young guys because he wanted to make the playoffs despite that not being a realistic goal by the end of November that D'Antoni isn't and never will be interested in coaching, teaching and developing young players that aren't NBA ready coming out of the draft. D'Antoni is all about playing his most mature guys that don't need coaching or development. I also worry about Amare's health. He is a beast, works incredibly hard to be in condition to overpower the opposition, but has had some major injuries. He is never going to ask out to save himself for the playoffs so he needs a coach to do that. I like watching the Knicks again and try to plan around games. However, I think there are some things that are fundamentally wrong with D'Antoni as a coach and I don't think the Knicks should build a flawed team to suit his flawed philosophy.

Fields - 22
Danilo - 22
Chandler - 23
Walker - 23
Williams - 24
TD - 24
Timo - 24

NONE OF THESE PLAYERS ARE FINISHED PRODUCTS!!! All of these guys are or were in the rotation this year. MDA is coaching these guys and developing them. Gallo has progressively been more and more aggressive going to the basket as the season has progressed. Have you forgotten how Gallo looked to start the year? Basically each and every one of these guys is getting coached up by MDA. There is ZERO evidence to support your contention. In fact just the opposite has been proven this season.

Facts cannot sway opinions especially when they are formed out of malice. There are all the players you listed that has been coached by MDA, but lets ignore that and whine about Jordan Hill and pronounce generalizations insead. Talk about having blinders on!

If someone disagrees with your opinion of how things have gone the past three years it based on malice?

In This Case it's either Malice or ignorance of the facts. Where is the overwhelming proof to your original point? MDA has played young and still developing players in his rotation all year! THere has been some level of improvement from these players as well. The Facts are in MDA's favor.

The facts are boring. Let's continue to trash the man despite the best Knicks success in 10 years with a very young team.

I'm not in love with D'Antoni, but I think he's done a pretty solid job, and I do agree that a lot of the criticisms against him aren't backed up by reality.

As far as the minutes, we're probably below .500 if he doesn't play the guys so hard. Can he ease up a bit at this point? Probably, but we need to be careful. We're still not that deep a team, although I think the potential is there.

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Great post. I agree with everything you said. My guess is Amare plays 38+ minutes tomorrow and Chandler is back early because of the Williams suspension. I think it was very evident last year when the coach had a roster of limited vets competing for nothing and still played them over the young guys because he wanted to make the playoffs despite that not being a realistic goal by the end of November that D'Antoni isn't and never will be interested in coaching, teaching and developing young players that aren't NBA ready coming out of the draft. D'Antoni is all about playing his most mature guys that don't need coaching or development. I also worry about Amare's health. He is a beast, works incredibly hard to be in condition to overpower the opposition, but has had some major injuries. He is never going to ask out to save himself for the playoffs so he needs a coach to do that. I like watching the Knicks again and try to plan around games. However, I think there are some things that are fundamentally wrong with D'Antoni as a coach and I don't think the Knicks should build a flawed team to suit his flawed philosophy.

Fields - 22
Danilo - 22
Chandler - 23
Walker - 23
Williams - 24
TD - 24
Timo - 24

NONE OF THESE PLAYERS ARE FINISHED PRODUCTS!!! All of these guys are or were in the rotation this year. MDA is coaching these guys and developing them. Gallo has progressively been more and more aggressive going to the basket as the season has progressed. Have you forgotten how Gallo looked to start the year? Basically each and every one of these guys is getting coached up by MDA. There is ZERO evidence to support your contention. In fact just the opposite has been proven this season.

As far as zero evidence, last year the Knicks won 29 games and had two first round picks riding the bench while guys that were low upside vets with expiring contracts played. How do you justify 26 dnps coaches decision in the first 62 games last year for Douglas when Chris Duhon was the starting point. How do you justify Hill not playing when Bender and Jeffries were getting minutes. The past has happened and it can't be changed but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. I just hope Hill and the Knicks 2012 pick aren't packaged in a trade for a guy the Knicks want or could use.

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Great post. I agree with everything you said. My guess is Amare plays 38+ minutes tomorrow and Chandler is back early because of the Williams suspension. I think it was very evident last year when the coach had a roster of limited vets competing for nothing and still played them over the young guys because he wanted to make the playoffs despite that not being a realistic goal by the end of November that D'Antoni isn't and never will be interested in coaching, teaching and developing young players that aren't NBA ready coming out of the draft. D'Antoni is all about playing his most mature guys that don't need coaching or development. I also worry about Amare's health. He is a beast, works incredibly hard to be in condition to overpower the opposition, but has had some major injuries. He is never going to ask out to save himself for the playoffs so he needs a coach to do that. I like watching the Knicks again and try to plan around games. However, I think there are some things that are fundamentally wrong with D'Antoni as a coach and I don't think the Knicks should build a flawed team to suit his flawed philosophy.

Fields - 22
Danilo - 22
Chandler - 23
Walker - 23
Williams - 24
TD - 24
Timo - 24

NONE OF THESE PLAYERS ARE FINISHED PRODUCTS!!! All of these guys are or were in the rotation this year. MDA is coaching these guys and developing them. Gallo has progressively been more and more aggressive going to the basket as the season has progressed. Have you forgotten how Gallo looked to start the year? Basically each and every one of these guys is getting coached up by MDA. There is ZERO evidence to support your contention. In fact just the opposite has been proven this season.

Just to clarify, Williams, Chandler, and Walker all played for other coaches prior to D'Antoni. Williams and Chandler are in their fourth season. Timo isn't playing and hasn't been in the rotation since the beginning of December. Douglas was kept on the bench by D'Antoni and didn't get consistant minutes until game 63 last year when Walsh traveled with the team. Douglas has only played for D'Antoni and is in the rotation but it didn't happen until the GM said he was traveling to evalutate the coaching staff and the players. Fields has been great and a tremendous surprise. However, he has been what he is from the start. I think similar to Darren Collison last year, some guys that play four years come to the NBA ready to play. Gallinari has also consistently gotten minutes form day 1.

As far as zero evidence, last year the Knicks won 29 games and had two first round picks riding the bench while guys that were low upside vets with expiring contracts played. How do you justify 26 dnps coaches decision in the first 62 games last year for Douglas when Chris Duhon was the starting point. How do you justify Hill not playing when Bender and Jeffries were getting minutes. The past has happened and it can't be changed but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. I just hope Hill and the Knicks 2012 pick aren't packaged in a trade for a guy the Knicks want or could use.

WOW! What can I say? You just don't get it and apparently never will. Your point has been completely destroyed by the facts. Timo, Fields and Gallo all played as rooks. The other STILL YOUNG and DEVELOPING guys have been significant contributors for pretty much the 1st time under Mike and the entire team has gotten better. Tonight we saw more evidence of player growth under the methods Mike has chosen to use. Just give it up already, this argument is toast.

Killa4luv wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Great post. I agree with everything you said. My guess is Amare plays 38+ minutes tomorrow and Chandler is back early because of the Williams suspension. I think it was very evident last year when the coach had a roster of limited vets competing for nothing and still played them over the young guys because he wanted to make the playoffs despite that not being a realistic goal by the end of November that D'Antoni isn't and never will be interested in coaching, teaching and developing young players that aren't NBA ready coming out of the draft. D'Antoni is all about playing his most mature guys that don't need coaching or development. I also worry about Amare's health. He is a beast, works incredibly hard to be in condition to overpower the opposition, but has had some major injuries. He is never going to ask out to save himself for the playoffs so he needs a coach to do that. I like watching the Knicks again and try to plan around games. However, I think there are some things that are fundamentally wrong with D'Antoni as a coach and I don't think the Knicks should build a flawed team to suit his flawed philosophy.

Fields - 22
Danilo - 22
Chandler - 23
Walker - 23
Williams - 24
TD - 24
Timo - 24

NONE OF THESE PLAYERS ARE FINISHED PRODUCTS!!! All of these guys are or were in the rotation this year. MDA is coaching these guys and developing them. Gallo has progressively been more and more aggressive going to the basket as the season has progressed. Have you forgotten how Gallo looked to start the year? Basically each and every one of these guys is getting coached up by MDA. There is ZERO evidence to support your contention. In fact just the opposite has been proven this season.

Just to clarify, Williams, Chandler, and Walker all played for other coaches prior to D'Antoni. Williams and Chandler are in their fourth season. Timo isn't playing and hasn't been in the rotation since the beginning of December. Douglas was kept on the bench by D'Antoni and didn't get consistant minutes until game 63 last year when Walsh traveled with the team. Douglas has only played for D'Antoni and is in the rotation but it didn't happen until the GM said he was traveling to evalutate the coaching staff and the players. Fields has been great and a tremendous surprise. However, he has been what he is from the start. I think similar to Darren Collison last year, some guys that play four years come to the NBA ready to play. Gallinari has also consistently gotten minutes form day 1.

As far as zero evidence, last year the Knicks won 29 games and had two first round picks riding the bench while guys that were low upside vets with expiring contracts played. How do you justify 26 dnps coaches decision in the first 62 games last year for Douglas when Chris Duhon was the starting point. How do you justify Hill not playing when Bender and Jeffries were getting minutes. The past has happened and it can't be changed but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. I just hope Hill and the Knicks 2012 pick aren't packaged in a trade for a guy the Knicks want or could use.

+1

i would also add that if not for Wilson's injury & Williams' suspension, neither Mozgov or AR likely see the light of day off the bench tonight & people are still likely making up excuses as to why those guys aren't ready to play yet... i think there is clear evidence that shows MDA has succeeded in developing certain young players, but to deny the fact that his hand has had to be forced to play certain guys before they ever sniffed a real shot cannot be denied either.

nixluva wrote:From the articles i've read Timo was getting close to getting back in soon anyway. Mike already said that the season is long and that there would be a shot due to injury or suspension. He always expected that something like this would happen. In any season you can expect that guys will go down. It really doesn't matter, cuz people are missing the point. When they got called upon both AR and Timo did the things we've been wanting to see them do. Things that they had trouble doing before this. So clearly the work Mike has had them doing was effective.

i believe MDA has an affection for Mozgov & wanted to find some minutes for him eventually... he let Mozgov start several games to begin the season it's pretty obvious he thinks he can help the team at some point... if u want to give the coach credit for grooming Mozgov to be ready for his next opportunity, that's cool with me... i certainly didn't think he was ready based on what i saw... but u can't possibly tell me MDA is responsible for grooming AR to contribute the way he did, that's utter nonsense... he's already proven in his short NBA career he can play at a much higher level than he even played tonight & on more than just a few occasions.

when you come into a game not having to look over your shoulder to see when the coach is going to yank you out after you make your first mistake, it has to have an impact on your psyche & give u a big boost to your confidence that allows you to relax & play your game... we saw that play out perfectly with Mozgov tonight, looked like crap in the first 10 minutes then found his groove & went on to have a great game... AR came in & played with poise, something he hadn't done in garbage run minutes, but i don't see how any sensible person can even try to use his limited run this year as some measuring stick to judge his ability as a basketball player when u have a significant block of games & real NBA action from last season that tells you the type of player AR is already capable of being... after that 3-8 start to the season MDA completely lost faith in him & that was all she wrote... it wasn't until Shawne Williams got himself suspended for a game that AR finally got a chance to play in some meaningful action, so please enough with this "he was just waiting for AR to do the things we've been wanting to see him do" stuff.