Vmart wrote:This is all MDA. He likes small ball spread the floor game. That is why it will be very hard to ever have a legit center with MDA. Ideal player will be a PF with good range on his shot, someone like Lee playing center.

I thought the general consensus was that MDA is not playing AR because he takes dumb shots and make too many mistakes. Mistakes that even frustrate the other Knicks players - in PRACTICE. I'm guessing that if AR is getting minutes in games and making the same mistakes it would frustrate his teammates even more because it's costing them Ws.

Personally I feel like our lack of rebound and defense is costing us games right now and AR can help out with that. I think MDA wants AR to focus on those two aspects of his game but he may not be showing enough in those areas in practice.

As far as MDA not wanting to play a legit center, I don't see it. He was willing to start a rookie center in Mozgov but was forced to take him out of the lineup. Obviously MDA feels Amare at C gives us the best shot to win. Without a legit C on the roster, he might be right.

Now if the Knicks had Camby and MDA wasn't playing him I'd say you have a point. What legit center has MDA had on either this team or Phoenix that he refused to play?

I think MDA's ideal center would be Marcus Camby with Channing Frye's range and Boris Diaw passing skills. Then again that might be one of the best centers ever. Like a young Arvydas Sabonis with more hops.

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:

Vmart wrote:This is all MDA. He likes small ball spread the floor game. That is why it will be very hard to ever have a legit center with MDA. Ideal player will be a PF with good range on his shot, someone like Lee playing center.

I thought the general consensus was that MDA is not playing AR because he takes dumb shots and make too many mistakes. Mistakes that even frustrate the other Knicks players - in PRACTICE. I'm guessing that if AR is getting minutes in games and making the same mistakes it would frustrate his teammates even more because it's costing them Ws.

Personally I feel like our lack of rebound and defense is costing us games right now and AR can help out with that. I think MDA wants AR to focus on those two aspects of his game but he may not be showing enough in those areas in practice.

As far as MDA not wanting to play a legit center, I don't see it. He was willing to start a rookie center in Mozgov but was forced to take him out of the lineup. Obviously MDA feels Amare at C gives us the best shot to win. Without a legit C on the roster, he might be right.

Now if the Knicks had Camby and MDA wasn't playing him I'd say you have a point. What legit center has MDA had on either this team or Phoenix that he refused to play?

I think MDA's ideal center would be Marcus Camby with Channing Frye's range and Boris Diaw passing skills. Then again that might be one of the best centers ever. Like a young Arvydas Sabonis with more hops.

personally i think we need to get AR into some action before we look for other options, otherwise we should trade him... he's no use to us sitting on the bench collecting dust... we traded our Allstar PF to get this kid, DW is obviously high on him... he's already shown that he can play at a high level vs. NBA talent... if we can't get any use out of him on the court, then we need to trade him for someone that can contribute... the thing that bothers me the most is seeing this franchise wasting assets... we mismanaged Jordan Hill & i don't wanna see us do the same with AR... this ain't no rookie that isn't ready to play vs. NBA opposition like Mozgov... this kid can ball... let him play or trade him i say.

MS wrote:Sooner or later you need to look at the coach.

Douglas had a number of good games early in the season and then was benched for no reason. Duhon meanwhile was shooting in the low 30% and player as bad as any guard in the league.

HE overplayed Jefferies and didn't put Hill in a position to be successful.

The kid needs a few minutes. If he doesn't play defense and protect the basket that's fine than he doesn't play. The coach needs to define roles sometimes and do a better job of communicating.

Obviously no of us knows the inner workings of the team and who is doing what but we need to find players to give us additional minutes and continue to keep guys fresh.

This guy was a lottery pick and on everyones list of potential breakout players last week and now he is being discussed in deals for fringe 11th men on lottery teams.

We already lost draft assets because of the coach and that can't continue. You can't trade away an All Star for Ronny Turiaf.

i'm willing to give him more of a pass this year than last because we're actually playing for something this year... can't afford to play guys that aren't ready like Mozgov until they're ready to contribute... thing is, AR has already shown he can contribute... that's what i don't get... the leeway that a kid like AR gets is so far & away shorter than a guy like Gallo, even tho AR has shown the same kinds of flashes of brilliance that Gallo has in the past year... Gallo can go an entire game being invisible & not have to worry about losing his starting job... AR gets on the floor for 2 minutes in garbage play & if he doesn't dominate from get he's back on the bench the next day.

BRIGGS wrote:Ive watched a lot of Randolph--this is not the same player who put up those stats. He's not as explosive--his skills look like they are a level down(maybe becasue of inactivity?) and he doesn't play as hard.

how much do you contribute that to his loss of confidence & how much do you contribute to an actual regression in his basketball skills?

TMS wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Ive watched a lot of Randolph--this is not the same player who put up those stats. He's not as explosive--his skills look like they are a level down(maybe becasue of inactivity?) and he doesn't play as hard.

how much do you contribute that to his loss of confidence & how much do you contribute to an actual regression in his basketball skills?

It could have something to do with the effects of his injuries.

CrushAlot wrote:

TMS wrote:http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/gamelog?playerId=3455&year=2010

these are some of the statlines AR put up last year:

13 / 14 / 1
23 / 7 / 3
17 / 13 / 2
13 / 8 / 1
11 / 8 / 1
15 / 11 / 2
28 / 13 / 1
11 / 9 / 3
15 / 5 / 2
15 / 9 / 1
12 / 8 / 8
17 / 6 / 1
18 / 9 / 1
15 / 11 / 1

now all of a sudden he's forgotten how to play the game?... there's gotta be something else going on behind the scenes... a reason why MDA isn't playing him other than the fact that he thinks he's not ready yet to produce... he's already shown he can produce at the NBA level last year with some very impressive statlines.

It is very frustrating. There seems to be a certain type of player that is doomed to fail with D'Antoni. Unfortunatley so far in NY that player often is under 25 and over 6'9" and plays a traditional 4/5. If guys don't come to this team with a very high level of maturity to their game it appears that the coach doesn't have the time to work with them. If a guys come to this team and they are over 6'9", under 25, don't have a great outside shot and need some guidance from their coach they do not have much of a chance for success here in my opinion.

maturity level is definitely something i would look at as a primary prerequisite for any future acquisitions we make... it's a shame because that pretty much takes us out of any running for most of the 19-20 yo talented phenoms that may need a little more development & guidance than our coach seems willing to give... MDA demands a ton out of his young players, & the main thing is knowing what their role is on the floor, but how does a young kid figure out what his role is if he doesn't get any time to get comfortable doing it?... if we had drafted Tyler Hansbrough or Austin Daye last year instead of Jordan Hill i have a feeling they'd still be a part of our rotation right now.

stanleybostitch wrote:The team went 11-20 in the games Randolph scored those lines, so it's not like he was helping them win games. MDA ball is predicated on team play - ball movement, spacing, taking smart shots, etc., and this isn't what AR brings to the table right now. If we want to improve as a team, we need to keep doing these things that make us successful and play those who know how to play this way. Why tank it in the hopes that a player like AR figures it out when he evidently hasn't shown it in practice. This isn't about MDA - it's all on AR. Is he still recovering from injury? A head case? Too young? I don't know, but am not pining for him to get on the court and wreck the good style of play we have going now.

the Knicks had just as crappy a record in the past 2 years when Gallo & Wilson were playing too, but MDA isn't pulling them out of the rotation anytime soon... both those kids have gained his trust... AR can't gain his trust if he's not given the opportunity to do it out on the floor... u can only do so much during practice... if this kid has shut himself down like Darko did last year, then ship him out... we have no room to keep guys that don't want to be here... but if this kid is working hard in practice, then give him a shot... i'm not talking about 2 minutes in garbage time during blowout losses, i'm talking about a shot like the one he gave to Mozgov to start the season... we're still early enough in the season to take these kinds of risks... IMO it's more of a risk to keep running our main guys down with all the extended minutes... by the end of the year if those guys break down, what good would keeping guys like AR off the floor have done for us this season?

BigDaddyG wrote:

TMS wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:You gotta remember that AR put up those numbers on a team that was going nowhere. Also, AR still managed to get on Don Nelson's nerves despite his talent. I hate to say it, but AR might be like Stromile Swift. A talented guy who is capable of putting up big numbers, but is too unfocused to get big time minutes on a consistent basis.

i agree that AR has maturity issues... that much was well known before he even got here... it was also well known that this kid had all kinds of huge potential... which then begs the question, if MDA has a problem dealing with kids who have maturity issues, then why did we trade for this kid to begin with? i think it's pretty obvious by now that MDA expects his young players to come in & be able to contribute right out the gate... AR has shown he can put up #'s, his only questions are in the maturity department... i think there are plenty of teams out there that would give this kid a shot to prove himself... if we're not going to use him, then trade him... the longer AR languishes on the bench, the lower his trade value becomes... we have to stop wasting assets like this.

You're right. His trade value is tanking, but I'm hesitant to give up on him. I still see shades of Camby in 1999 in AR. Also, I've seen guys like Tim Thomas shine in this system so I know AR has it in him.

if AR could shoot 3's like TT i think he'd already be a part of the regular rotation... i don't remember a player like AR ever shining in MDA's system... even Boris Diaw & Shawn Marion were knocking down occasional 3's in Phoenix... unless AR develops a consistent 3 pt shot, i picture him in a minor role like Steven Hunter but i don't see AR ever fulfilling his star potential playing for this head coach... btw, i agree w/u he's got Camby potential, if not more... just dunno if he'll ever get the chance to become that playing here.