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F Melo, My Plan B (In: Nene, Rindour, Pietrus. Out: Cap Space, Turiaf, TD, AR, #1 2011)
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martin
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12/22/2010  3:45 PM
OK, I'll let the other 300+ Melo threads speak for themselves. Loved Melo at 'Cuse, would love to have Melo on the Knicks as a FA. End of discussion on Melo. Here is my Plan B.

Assumptions: Cap stays at around $58M. HOWEVER, I will point out that TV #'s are reporting a 30% increase in viewership this year, I would have to guess that cap would go up ever so slightly, even a million or 2 would make the biggest difference in the world for the likes of the Knicks. We can't really discuss CBA and how it effects salary, so we'll just keep that out.

1) MDA provides us an offense that puts up numbers but Donnie remembers that an equal amount of defense also wins championships.

2) If you look at my numbers, they add up. And the guys that are signed as FA (Nene and Pietrus have Player Options for next year but their offers are for MORE than the options).

3) Knicks NEED a better PG off the bench and Ridnour is superfluous on the Twolves after Flynn comes back and with Rubio in the wings. A guy like TD in a triangle offense would be a very good fit off the bench. As much as I would hate to lose Turiaf, here is the trade I propose (cap fillers would have to be involved, but they dont matter much): Ridnour for TD, Turiaf. OR If Turiaf forgoes his option next year: TD, AR (who Twolves can move for a #1 or whatever). OR TD, Turiaf, AR for Ridnour and some future pick.

4) Nene provides beef, protection for Amare. He can shoot out to 18". Has good hands. Can post up of the offense needs. Has the highest FG% in the league. Rebounds and protects the rim well enough for deep playoffs (nothing extraordinary). Can get up and down the court. Is a tougn, mean-ass mutha****a; he and Amare team up to be the nasties C/PF combo out there.

5) Pietrus is a lockdown 2/3 who can shoot from distance. Another gazelle. 39% career shooter from 3point land. Playoff tested. Bring him off bench to stick on Wade, LeBron, Pierce, Ray Allen, Kobe, Durant, whomever.

6) My biggest flaw and assumption with the current makeup of the team. Chandler HAS to be asked to accept his QO. Handshake deal. How much does he want to stay in NY? If Donnie is resigned in April, does he have the wherewithal to get this type of deal done so the Knicks can sign the other players? Promise to oversign him the next year out. Make it happen.

6B) OK, maybe Chandler doesn't do deal. His cap hold is right around what Peitrus is slotted for, with the other $3M you go after: Grant Hill or Battier or some young, athletic gun.

7) You cut and then resign Williams and Rautins as necessary (I really like Williams and have good hopes for Rautins).

8) Knicks #1 for 2011 is up for grabs to make trades work, so are their 2 #2's coming up in 2012.


Nene $12,000,000
Amare $18,217,705
Gallo $4,190,182
Fields $788,872
Felton $7,560,000

Moz $3,343,896
Chandler $3,099,851
Pietrus $6,000,000
Ridnour $3,099,851
Williams
Rautins
----------------------
$58,300,357

All the guys are 28 and younger (Ridnour will be 30 in Feb, Pietrus 29 in Feb). I think this team can complete against Boston, Orlando, Miami, Chicago in the regular season. To make it DEEP into the playoffs internal growth needs to happen with Fields/Chandler/Gallo/Moz, and I think those collective guys got it in them (or at least one of them does).

This is a team that can run for another 5 years without changing much. You have TONS of youth. You have TONS of defense. You have TONS of depth at every position.

What's not to like?

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Vmart
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12/22/2010  3:46 PM
Someone lock this.
martin
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12/22/2010  3:47 PM
Vmart wrote:Someone lock this.

why? Feel free to review, critique and criticize. But don't be a pansy.

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simrud
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12/22/2010  3:48 PM
I like this, a good plan.

I don't think this team can really compete though. Eastern conference finals contender every year sure. But not a title shot.

A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
Childs2Dudley
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12/22/2010  3:51 PM
Nene? Nene barely grabs rebounds and is a bad defender. He is not what we need next to Stoudemire. He would be a very bad fit next to him in fact.

I like Ridnour and would take him on as a backup PG but not sure where Pietrus comes into this. He hasn't played well at all for the Magic and Magic fans were happy to get rid of him.

How would the addition of 3 average role players make us that much better? Especially when these guys will be on long-term contracts? You can't handcuff yourself to bad salaries on minimal players again.

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BlueSeats
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12/22/2010  3:57 PM
That should be good for 47 wins.
cheers
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12/22/2010  4:01 PM
martin wrote:

Nene $12,000,000
Amare $18,217,705
Gallo $4,190,182
Fields $788,872
Felton $7,560,000

Moz $3,343,896
Chandler $3,099,851
Pietrus $6,000,000
Ridnour $3,099,851
Williams
Rautins
----------------------
$58,300,357

i like that rotation, a lot.

martin
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12/22/2010  4:04 PM
BlueSeats wrote:That should be good for 47 wins.

If the Knicks play .500 ball the rest of the season, they will fall out some place right around 45 wins. You really think that adding Nene, Ridour at the very least would get you only 2 more wins?

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knicks1248
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12/22/2010  4:04 PM
Vmart wrote:Someone lock this.

sounds good, you don't like??

ES
tkf
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12/22/2010  4:21 PM
not a bad plan martin. seems well thought out and I appreciate the effort put into it..

I am not sure if this is a title contending team, but we can make some noise. I am not the biggest fan of nene, but he does provide beef down low and rebounding.. but what is nene's shotblocking like.. if he can protect the paint, rebound and give us 14-15ppg, that would be great.. Luke as a backup PG would be solid.... and our bench would be great with chandler leading in scoring... Not bad at all...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
MSG3
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12/22/2010  4:22 PM
In my opinion that's not a title contender. Yes we need better Defense, rebounding, etc. But unless D'Antoni is out as coach and we get a Thibedou type this is always going to be a running team that needs scorers. We score a lot of points now, but we don't have a consistent 2nd option that draws the double and tripple team away from Amar'e and we don't have another creator aside from Felton.

I think people fail to realize that to be a contender we have to compete with Miami and Boston (for at least another season or 2). We took it to Boston and should have won that game. BUt how many would we win in a series. 1? 2? And Miami blew us away when their 3 stars took over. They figured out how to stop us and all it took was 2 quarters. Why? Because we're a 1 trick pony right now. That's good enough for a 5-8 seed. But not for a contender. Let's say we have Nenee in at center and Ridnour and Chandler coming in off the bench. Would that have stopped LeBron, Wade and Bosh from taking a huge crap on us? Nenee helps our interior D and would definitely cut the points in the paint we give up down by a lot. Hell, maybe with that team we win 50-55 games. But we don't match up with the contenders.

Knixkik
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12/22/2010  4:29 PM
We are not role players away from contending. That is a nice team, with upside to be a very good team, but not a contender. I like Nene, but we need to add another star before we make a move for someone like him. Melo is obviously first, and if not a secondary star like Iggy. There are plenty of role players that can be had in the meantime who can fill a center role (Pryzbilla, Dalembert) without breaking the bank on a slightly better center. Again, after we add another game-changer, then you fill in all the holes.
crzymdups
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12/22/2010  4:29 PM
I think that team wins 50 games or so, but the big problem that the team still has which Melo addresses is they have no one who can create their own shot in crunch time. Amar'e is pretty good at it... but he can be triple-teamed in the paint. Usually you need a creator from the perimeter. Ray is decent at it... but he's not elite.

I think that's the main reason we need Melo.

I think we need a guy who can create for himself from the perimeter AND a defensive big like Nene if we want to win it all.

I would say yes to OJ Mayo and Nene.

I would say yes to Melo and Varejao...

I think we need some combo like that to take us over the top.

¿ △ ?
cheers
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12/22/2010  4:32 PM
crzymdups wrote:I think that team wins 50 games or so, but the big problem that the team still has which Melo addresses is they have no one who can create their own shot in crunch time. Amar'e is pretty good at it... but he can be triple-teamed in the paint. Usually you need a creator from the perimeter. Ray is decent at it... but he's not elite.

I think that's the main reason we need Melo.

I think we need a guy who can create for himself from the perimeter AND a defensive big like Nene if we want to win it all.

I would say yes to OJ Mayo and Nene.

I would say yes to Melo and Varejao...

I think we need some combo like that to take us over the top.

melo is an easy yes. but if nets say no, then what you put pieces together that best compliment the star you do have.

TMS
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12/22/2010  4:33 PM
that roster is still highly dependent on Amare staying healthy to even be competitive... i think any suitable plan B needs to address our need for another reliable scoring option that can create his own shot... getting role players to fill other holes is great, but we need to establish a stronger core before we worry about supplementary pieces IMO.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Vmart
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12/22/2010  4:39 PM
martin wrote:
Vmart wrote:Someone lock this.

why? Feel free to review, critique and criticize. But don't be a pansy.

This to me is a pansy trade for the simple reason. Your making the Knicks into crap. Get Melo in and then you can talk about these type of players. Nene and Amare are going to clash like crazy. Get Melo then you can get Verajao. You have to have Melo on this team anything else you might as well forget championship dreams. You are not going to beat the Heat, Celtics with this. You have a big dog in Amare and he needs a second big dog to go with him, these are decent players but this team needs another big star that is what is lacking. That was what Ewing lacked why do you want to continue this trend. We ain't that close to think a few role players are going to put this team into elite level.

martin
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12/22/2010  4:39 PM
For me, Amare is panning out to be a MVP type of player.

Felton can be a low-level all star, and I think he can get better over the next year as he learns the system better and also gets more players around him. Is he any better/worse than what Tony Parker provides Spurs?

Knicks do indeed need Gallo to step up and he is ultimately what would hinge on this Plan B, but not entirely. Chandler is only 23 and can step up his game. I see Fields growing exponentially.

This ultimately would be another end sun at a Detroit Pistons like team, no doubt about it.

And I would submit that these are not your average role players I am adding to the team, but 2-way, high-level role players who fit very nicely together.

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Knixkik
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12/22/2010  4:40 PM
If no Melo, plan B for me is:

Fields, Curry, AR or first round pick, cash for Iguodala.

Azubuike, cash for Telfair

Resign Telfair for a small deal

Resign Chandler, then overpay Joel Pryzbilla for one year so we maintain flexibility. He will want to prove he is worth one more long-term deal, which he probably won't prove this season because of injury but can in this system.

C Pryzbilla, Turiaf, Mozgov
PF Stoudemire, First Round pick
SF Gallinari, Chandler, S. Williams
SG Iguodala, Douglas, Rautins
PG Felton, Telfair

Improved starting 5, and great depth. Just an idea.

MSG3
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12/22/2010  4:43 PM
Knixkik wrote:If no Melo, plan B for me is:

Fields, Curry, AR or first round pick, cash for Iguodala.

Azubuike, cash for Telfair

Resign Telfair for a small deal

Resign Chandler, then overpay Joel Pryzbilla for one year so we maintain flexibility. He will want to prove he is worth one more long-term deal, which he probably won't prove this season because of injury but can in this system.

C Pryzbilla, Turiaf, Mozgov
PF Stoudemire, First Round pick
SF Gallinari, Chandler, S. Williams
SG Iguodala, Douglas, Rautins
PG Felton, Telfair

Improved starting 5, and great depth. Just an idea.

I think that's too much for Iggy. 6ers are playing better now, but Fields cannot be involved in that trade. The only way I give up Fields is in a Melo trade. But yea, Iggy is a good target if we don't get Melo.

I think you target Nenee over Pryzbilla though....unless Iggy's $$ prohibit that.

MSG3
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12/22/2010  4:46 PM
In the event we don't get Melo I think adding Mayo or Iggy are the most important steps to making us a contender. I'd rather get Iggy because of his D. After that, you get a backup PG, some more depth, resign Wilson and we've got a perenial 50 win team as long as the franchise (STAT) stays healthy.
F Melo, My Plan B (In: Nene, Rindour, Pietrus. Out: Cap Space, Turiaf, TD, AR, #1 2011)

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