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Instead of half-assing it, Donnie Walnuts should have gone all the way...
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Panos
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11/23/2010  7:29 PM
...and traded picks with Houston in 2011 straight up.

Eat some dust, Houston!
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umynot
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11/23/2010  11:57 PM
No replies? Hmmmmmmmm Shocking

The haters have been silenced?......

We did what we had to do and got rid of Jeffries along with Hill's 4 million a year and gave up maybe a 15th pick at best
next year to do it....

The Don from day 1 has done a good job...

We got rid of Marbury Crawford Zach Jeffries and every other overpaid useless player on this team in 2 years.

Had a shot @ Bron and Ended up with Amare and Felton....

@ least we are in the game with The Don running things..... He has put a nice team together.... Drafted Gallo
Fields and Douglas all great value picks ..... Signed Amare and Felton..... Still think Mozgov will adjust as well
b4 too long ..... He just needs to gain confidence ....... It's a different world in NY and he just needs to adjust.

The Houston trade will turn out to be a non-deal soon.........

Even if we give up our pick next year and it turns into a superstar player for Houston i still say its a push!

We got Amare and Felton and Mozgov ..... Got rid of Jeffries and his 7 million owed to him this year.
I for 1 couldn't handle Jeffries for another year

Turiaf proofs u dont need to score to be good...... Jeffries was just terrible!

KNICKS on the way UP!!!
Childs2Dudley
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11/24/2010  12:00 AM
umynot wrote:No replies? Hmmmmmmmm Shocking

The haters have been silenced?......

We did what we had to do and got rid of Jeffries along with Hill's 4 million a year and gave up maybe a 15th pick at best
next year to do it....

The Don from day 1 has done a good job...

We got rid of Marbury Crawford Zach Jeffries and every other overpaid useless player on this team in 2 years.

Had a shot @ Bron and Ended up with Amare and Felton....

@ least we are in the game with The Don running things..... He has put a nice team together.... Drafted Gallo
Fields and Douglas all great value picks ..... Signed Amare and Felton..... Still think Mozgov will adjust as well
b4 too long ..... He just needs to gain confidence ....... It's a different world in NY and he just needs to adjust.

The Houston trade will turn out to be a non-deal soon.........

Even if we give up our pick next year and it turns into a superstar player for Houston i still say its a push!

We got Amare and Felton and Mozgov ..... Got rid of Jeffries and his 7 million owed to him this year.
I for 1 couldn't handle Jeffries for another year

Turiaf proofs u dont need to score to be good...... Jeffries was just terrible!

It's too early to make "I told you so" posts from either side.

"Our attitude toward life determines life's attitude towards us." - Earl Nightingale
nixluva
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11/24/2010  12:08 AM
Childs2Dudley wrote:
umynot wrote:No replies? Hmmmmmmmm Shocking

The haters have been silenced?......

We did what we had to do and got rid of Jeffries along with Hill's 4 million a year and gave up maybe a 15th pick at best
next year to do it....

The Don from day 1 has done a good job...

We got rid of Marbury Crawford Zach Jeffries and every other overpaid useless player on this team in 2 years.

Had a shot @ Bron and Ended up with Amare and Felton....

@ least we are in the game with The Don running things..... He has put a nice team together.... Drafted Gallo
Fields and Douglas all great value picks ..... Signed Amare and Felton..... Still think Mozgov will adjust as well
b4 too long ..... He just needs to gain confidence ....... It's a different world in NY and he just needs to adjust.

The Houston trade will turn out to be a non-deal soon.........

Even if we give up our pick next year and it turns into a superstar player for Houston i still say its a push!

We got Amare and Felton and Mozgov ..... Got rid of Jeffries and his 7 million owed to him this year.
I for 1 couldn't handle Jeffries for another year

Turiaf proofs u dont need to score to be good...... Jeffries was just terrible!

It's too early to make "I told you so" posts from either side.


Well IMO it's clear that this team is better than what we had if we kept those guys. I like the roster for the most part, it's not a totally finished product, but we know that more improvements are coming. The base we have right now is pretty good and with the right additions this could be a serious title contender. Let's not forget how young this team is. The signs are good that this team is gonna play up to it's potential this year if healthy. The really interesting part is that we have more talent on the roster that if those players step up could push us a bit further.
CrushAlot
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11/24/2010  12:42 AM
I am glad that things seem to be turned around but there is no way that Walsh should have given up all that he did. Houston smoked the Knicks and Scola looked like a HOF. In fact almost every big man that the Knicks faced without Turiaf looked like a hof. Also, Walsh couldn't trade picks because teams are not allowed to trade first round picks consecutively. The extreme measures that Walsh took in hoping to sign a player also impacts the Knicks chance to get Melo.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
CrushAlot
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11/24/2010  12:51 AM
umynot wrote:No replies? Hmmmmmmmm Shocking

The haters have been silenced?......

We did what we had to do and got rid of Jeffries along with Hill's 4 million a year and gave up maybe a 15th pick at best
next year to do it....

The Don from day 1 has done a good job...

We got rid of Marbury Crawford Zach Jeffries and every other overpaid useless player on this team in 2 years.

Had a shot @ Bron and Ended up with Amare and Felton....

@ least we are in the game with The Don running things..... He has put a nice team together.... Drafted Gallo
Fields and Douglas all great value picks ..... Signed Amare and Felton..... Still think Mozgov will adjust as well
b4 too long ..... He just needs to gain confidence ....... It's a different world in NY and he just needs to adjust.

The Houston trade will turn out to be a non-deal soon.........

Even if we give up our pick next year and it turns into a superstar player for Houston i still say its a push!

We got Amare and Felton and Mozgov ..... Got rid of Jeffries and his 7 million owed to him this year.
I for 1 couldn't handle Jeffries for another year

Turiaf proofs u dont need to score to be good...... Jeffries was just terrible!

I don't think Walsh wanted to buyout Marbs. I think he thought he could turn that 23 mil into something before he had to protect his coach. I think Walsh gave up way too much to get the cap space created by th e Jeffries trade. I think that trade is the reason the Knicks don't have the assets to get a Melo trade done now.

I generally like the job Walsh has done but he has made mistakes and his biggest might be the Jeffries, Hill and 2 first rounders for cap space.

I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
martin
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11/24/2010  1:00 AM
CrushAlot wrote:I generally like the job Walsh has done but he has made mistakes and his biggest might be the Jeffries, Hill and 2 first rounders for cap space.

I guess we can all argue this ad nauseaum, but can you at least get the trade right? It was Jefferies, Hill, 2011 swap, 2012.

Here's what possibly happens if you DONT make trade:

First, you are out of the 2 Max sweepstakes.
Second, you may not even get Amare (low prob there though).
Third, you either can't do the Lee trade (Turiaf) or you can't sign Felton.
Fourth, you can't sign Moz if one of the 2 in the third part happens.

You can't think of it in terms of... OK, we dont do the trade but we still get Amare and have Hill and Jefferies and can still form a competitive team, cause that's nowhere near reality.

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CrushAlot
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11/24/2010  1:06 AM
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:I generally like the job Walsh has done but he has made mistakes and his biggest might be the Jeffries, Hill and 2 first rounders for cap space.

I guess we can all argue this ad nauseaum, but can you at least get the trade right? It was Jefferies, Hill, 2011 swap, 2012.

Here's what possibly happens if you DONT make trade:

First, you are out of the 2 Max sweepstakes.
Second, you may not even get Amare (low prob there though).
Third, you either can't do the Lee trade (Turiaf) or you can't sign Felton.
Fourth, you can't sign Moz if one of the 2 in the third part happens.

You can't think of it in terms of... OK, we dont do the trade but we still get Amare and have Hill and Jefferies and can still form a competitive team, cause that's nowhere near reality.

I don't have a problem with the trade in general except that too much was given up. The 09 lottery pick and possibly two more lottery picks was too much in my opinion.
As far as the parameters of the trade you are right but it is similar to the Curry trade and despite the recent west coast succssful trip I still worry that this team is bound for the lottery.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
martin
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11/24/2010  1:11 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:I generally like the job Walsh has done but he has made mistakes and his biggest might be the Jeffries, Hill and 2 first rounders for cap space.

I guess we can all argue this ad nauseaum, but can you at least get the trade right? It was Jefferies, Hill, 2011 swap, 2012.

Here's what possibly happens if you DONT make trade:

First, you are out of the 2 Max sweepstakes.
Second, you may not even get Amare (low prob there though).
Third, you either can't do the Lee trade (Turiaf) or you can't sign Felton.
Fourth, you can't sign Moz if one of the 2 in the third part happens.

You can't think of it in terms of... OK, we dont do the trade but we still get Amare and have Hill and Jefferies and can still form a competitive team, cause that's nowhere near reality.

I don't have a problem with the trade in general except that too much was given up. The 09 lottery pick and possibly two more lottery picks was too much in my opinion.
As far as the parameters of the trade you are right but it is similar to the Curry trade and despite the recent west coast succssful trip I still worry that this team is bound for the lottery.

would you have done the trade? And if not, what is your plan with Hill, Jefferies in tow after you sign Amare?

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CrushAlot
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11/24/2010  1:28 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/24/2010  1:29 AM
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:I generally like the job Walsh has done but he has made mistakes and his biggest might be the Jeffries, Hill and 2 first rounders for cap space.

I guess we can all argue this ad nauseaum, but can you at least get the trade right? It was Jefferies, Hill, 2011 swap, 2012.

Here's what possibly happens if you DONT make trade:

First, you are out of the 2 Max sweepstakes.
Second, you may not even get Amare (low prob there though).
Third, you either can't do the Lee trade (Turiaf) or you can't sign Felton.
Fourth, you can't sign Moz if one of the 2 in the third part happens.

You can't think of it in terms of... OK, we dont do the trade but we still get Amare and have Hill and Jefferies and can still form a competitive team, cause that's nowhere near reality.

I don't have a problem with the trade in general except that too much was given up. The 09 lottery pick and possibly two more lottery picks was too much in my opinion.
As far as the parameters of the trade you are right but it is similar to the Curry trade and despite the recent west coast succssful trip I still worry that this team is bound for the lottery.

would you have done the trade? And if not, what is your plan with Hill, Jefferies in tow after you sign Amare?

I wouldn't have done the trade the way it was constructed. I still think Dolan must have pushed Walsh to make the trade. I think if Walsh stuck to his guns he could have kept Hill, the 12 pick or minimally kept autonomy with this years pick. I don't have a plan but I think the 2012 pick and a package of players would bring Melo to NY as opposed to the hope that a player comes to NY for a lottery pick and two more potential lottery picks.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
CrushAlot
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11/24/2010  1:30 AM
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:I generally like the job Walsh has done but he has made mistakes and his biggest might be the Jeffries, Hill and 2 first rounders for cap space.

I guess we can all argue this ad nauseaum, but can you at least get the trade right? It was Jefferies, Hill, 2011 swap, 2012.

Here's what possibly happens if you DONT make trade:

First, you are out of the 2 Max sweepstakes.
Second, you may not even get Amare (low prob there though).
Third, you either can't do the Lee trade (Turiaf) or you can't sign Felton.
Fourth, you can't sign Moz if one of the 2 in the third part happens.

You can't think of it in terms of... OK, we dont do the trade but we still get Amare and have Hill and Jefferies and can still form a competitive team, cause that's nowhere near reality.

I don't have a problem with the trade in general except that too much was given up. The 09 lottery pick and possibly two more lottery picks was too much in my opinion.
As far as the parameters of the trade you are right but it is similar to the Curry trade and despite the recent west coast succssful trip I still worry that this team is bound for the lottery.

would you have done the trade? And if not, what is your plan with Hill, Jefferies in tow after you sign Amare?


The plan that was in place when the trade was made didn't work and didn't have much of a chance to work.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Sangfroid
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11/24/2010  1:32 AM
umynot wrote:No replies? Hmmmmmmmm Shocking

The haters have been silenced?......

We did what we had to do and got rid of Jeffries along with Hill's 4 million a year and gave up maybe a 15th pick at best
next year to do it....

The Don from day 1 has done a good job...

We got rid of Marbury Crawford Zach Jeffries and every other overpaid useless player on this team in 2 years.

Had a shot @ Bron and Ended up with Amare and Felton....

@ least we are in the game with The Don running things..... He has put a nice team together.... Drafted Gallo
Fields and Douglas all great value picks ..... Signed Amare and Felton..... Still think Mozgov will adjust as well
b4 too long ..... He just needs to gain confidence ....... It's a different world in NY and he just needs to adjust.

The Houston trade will turn out to be a non-deal soon.........

Even if we give up our pick next year and it turns into a superstar player for Houston i still say its a push!

We got Amare and Felton and Mozgov ..... Got rid of Jeffries and his 7 million owed to him this year.
I for 1 couldn't handle Jeffries for another year

Turiaf proofs u dont need to score to be good...... Jeffries was just terrible!

This is the only line I have a problem with. They're not ALL gone... One left

"We are playing a game. We are playing at not playing a game..."
TMS
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11/24/2010  3:15 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/24/2010  3:16 AM
martin wrote:Here's what possibly happens if you DONT make trade:

First, you are out of the 2 Max sweepstakes.
Second, you may not even get Amare (low prob there though).
Third, you either can't do the Lee trade (Turiaf) or you can't sign Felton.
Fourth, you can't sign Moz if one of the 2 in the third part happens.

Fifth, you have full ownership of your next two 1st round picks to include in a possible trade for Carmelo Anthony.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
fishmike
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11/24/2010  7:50 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:I generally like the job Walsh has done but he has made mistakes and his biggest might be the Jeffries, Hill and 2 first rounders for cap space.

I guess we can all argue this ad nauseaum, but can you at least get the trade right? It was Jefferies, Hill, 2011 swap, 2012.

Here's what possibly happens if you DONT make trade:

First, you are out of the 2 Max sweepstakes.
Second, you may not even get Amare (low prob there though).
Third, you either can't do the Lee trade (Turiaf) or you can't sign Felton.
Fourth, you can't sign Moz if one of the 2 in the third part happens.

You can't think of it in terms of... OK, we dont do the trade but we still get Amare and have Hill and Jefferies and can still form a competitive team, cause that's nowhere near reality.

I don't have a problem with the trade in general except that too much was given up. The 09 lottery pick and possibly two more lottery picks was too much in my opinion.
As far as the parameters of the trade you are right but it is similar to the Curry trade and despite the recent west coast succssful trip I still worry that this team is bound for the lottery.

would you have done the trade? And if not, what is your plan with Hill, Jefferies in tow after you sign Amare?

I wouldn't have done the trade the way it was constructed. I still think Dolan must have pushed Walsh to make the trade. I think if Walsh stuck to his guns he could have kept Hill, the 12 pick or minimally kept autonomy with this years pick. I don't have a plan but I think the 2012 pick and a package of players would bring Melo to NY as opposed to the hope that a player comes to NY for a lottery pick and two more potential lottery picks.
Melo's interest in NY is all spawned from playing with Amare. Again, no 2x max cap space no Amare, and Melo doesnt come here.

The JJ trade sucked. Walsh said it did, and he hated doing it because it was a $$ trade and not a basketball trade.

You guys simply refuse to acknowledge that that trade is why we are what we are. Amare probably goes to Chicago, the Knicks probably resign Lee and then maybe add Felton or Mosgov and we are slightly better than we were last year. Melo isnt pining to come here because his best bud Amare isnt here and the Knicks best player is David Lee.

JJ trade wasnt good but it cleared the room that allowed Walsh to truly retool this roster. Assuming you could just pluck you favorite parts of the current roster and make that work without that JJ trade is denial.. it really is. Nobody is saying it was good BB trade, but it set in motion a lot of options which eventually came to fruition.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
franco12
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11/24/2010  8:21 AM
fishmike wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:I generally like the job Walsh has done but he has made mistakes and his biggest might be the Jeffries, Hill and 2 first rounders for cap space.

I guess we can all argue this ad nauseaum, but can you at least get the trade right? It was Jefferies, Hill, 2011 swap, 2012.

Here's what possibly happens if you DONT make trade:

First, you are out of the 2 Max sweepstakes.
Second, you may not even get Amare (low prob there though).
Third, you either can't do the Lee trade (Turiaf) or you can't sign Felton.
Fourth, you can't sign Moz if one of the 2 in the third part happens.

You can't think of it in terms of... OK, we dont do the trade but we still get Amare and have Hill and Jefferies and can still form a competitive team, cause that's nowhere near reality.

I don't have a problem with the trade in general except that too much was given up. The 09 lottery pick and possibly two more lottery picks was too much in my opinion.
As far as the parameters of the trade you are right but it is similar to the Curry trade and despite the recent west coast succssful trip I still worry that this team is bound for the lottery.

would you have done the trade? And if not, what is your plan with Hill, Jefferies in tow after you sign Amare?

I wouldn't have done the trade the way it was constructed. I still think Dolan must have pushed Walsh to make the trade. I think if Walsh stuck to his guns he could have kept Hill, the 12 pick or minimally kept autonomy with this years pick. I don't have a plan but I think the 2012 pick and a package of players would bring Melo to NY as opposed to the hope that a player comes to NY for a lottery pick and two more potential lottery picks.
Melo's interest in NY is all spawned from playing with Amare. Again, no 2x max cap space no Amare, and Melo doesnt come here.

The JJ trade sucked. Walsh said it did, and he hated doing it because it was a $$ trade and not a basketball trade.

You guys simply refuse to acknowledge that that trade is why we are what we are. Amare probably goes to Chicago, the Knicks probably resign Lee and then maybe add Felton or Mosgov and we are slightly better than we were last year. Melo isnt pining to come here because his best bud Amare isnt here and the Knicks best player is David Lee.

JJ trade wasnt good but it cleared the room that allowed Walsh to truly retool this roster. Assuming you could just pluck you favorite parts of the current roster and make that work without that JJ trade is denial.. it really is. Nobody is saying it was good BB trade, but it set in motion a lot of options which eventually came to fruition.

I thought the trade was a bad one at the time. However, Walsh has made the most of it, and I like the parts he's been able to add as a result.

Did we pay too much? Absolutely. What I don't understand is how teams like the Bulls, Nets and Heat were able to shed unwanted players/contracts and not get reamed.

Next, everyone forgets about the Jefferies/Nate to sac trade that was probably there, but Walsh probably thought at the time, Nate was too much to give up to clear salary.

That is clearly the trade that Walsh failed to execute that could have saved us some assets. Yes, we would probably not have gotten Walker, but having control of our picks and perhaps Jordan Hill would have been worth it, I think.
MS
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11/24/2010  8:45 AM
Give the old man his due. I was hard on him, but Douglas/Fields > Bradon Jennings. So you can't get on him about the trade right now. Lebron made the mistake not Donnie.
Panos
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11/24/2010  9:53 AM
The silver lining is, we will probably have our own pick this summer.
crzymdups
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11/24/2010  9:59 AM
MS wrote:Give the old man his due. I was hard on him, but Douglas/Fields > Bradon Jennings. So you can't get on him about the trade right now. Lebron made the mistake not Donnie.

I'm not sure about the first part - Jennings is really good.

But I agree about the second part. Donnie did everything he could to create the PERFECT situation for Lebron. Lebron made one of the worst decisions in free agency we'll ever see.

¿ △ ?
fishmike
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11/24/2010  10:54 AM
Thats really what it comes down to... EVERY GM from Jerry West on down has made trades that didnt work out and drafted poor players before ones that went on to become good players. I believe Walsh is a good GM , and when your a good GM the moves will balance out. We have a very good bench and a solid rotation because Walsh added guys like Fields, Douglas, Felton and Turiaf to go with the pieces he had (Chandler, Gallo) and the stud he went out and got (Amare). I think Mosgov and Randolph are good prospects. Hopefully Rautins shows us something at some point. Maybe AZ turns out good also.

Obviously we all would have liked a Lebron/Amare tandem, and we were in it. Plan B was we would have a gutted roster, a couple good young players and a deep market which to build with. Year 3 of the Walsh era and we have a star post player, a young dynamic scorer in Gallo, a tough heady PG, some really good young role players and prospects and a cap friendly roster. I also think we will have a WINNING team when December starts so I would say when you look at the body of work Walsh has done a pretty damn good job here in 2 years.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
CrushAlot
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11/24/2010  11:04 AM
MS wrote:Give the old man his due. I was hard on him, but Douglas/Fields > Bradon Jennings. So you can't get on him about the trade right now. Lebron made the mistake not Donnie.

The Knicks could have had all three of these guys. They didn't have to choose between them.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
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