2.) Amare-Outside of his inability to see the double team he seems to have a great grasp of the game. He understands when he needs to take control and when he can let others be involved. He's a solid standstill passer and a solid help defender. The other flaws in his game to me seem to come from the occassional bout of laziness then a lack of intelligence. What I liek most about his game is that despite the fact that we are asking him to be an isolation player he is somehow finding a way to be an isolation plaeyr in the flow of our offense. That's hard to do.

3.) Landry-I wanted to put him number 2 but he's a rookie and rookies by nature are stupid. He understands his game, takes the type of shots he can make, moves fantastically without the ball, pays attention to the scouting report on the defensive end. My only problems are the occassional rookie mistakes that you see crop up. It's game 12 and he has yet to adjust to the travel calls that they call on him constantly. His sideline pass against Denver was a killer. He also gambles on D a little too much and that hurts us from time to time. But I'm nitpicking, he's obviously a very smart player

Borderline Basketball intelligent
4.) Gallo- I actually think he's very smart on the court player. He's a ball mover, knows how to draw fouls, is a solid passer, is a genius when it comes to the scouting report on the defensive end. he knows his strengths and weaknesses and doesn't seem to lose his concentration. Why did I put him in this category. I think he disappears at times and does not recognize when his team needs him to take over. Also, he spent the majority of his career shooting jumpers when his drive was an obvious strength. Knowing your own game is very important when it comes to BI

5.) Bill Walker-The Celtics obviously wore off on him. He's a ball mover, swings the ball well, shoots most of his jumpers in the flow of the offense. Very poor on the defensive end but I can't tell if the poor rotations are out of laziness or a lack of knowledge. I'm just guessing that he has never pushed himself on the defensive end and actually knows what he needs to do. He also lacks knowledge of his own game. He is very powerful going to the hoop yet has turned himself into a pretty one dimensional player.

Borderline idioso
6.) Raymond Felton-I actually wanted to put him in the category above. I think he's actually a pretty heady player, but his mental lapses at key parts of the game are devastating and happen far too often for someone to be considered a heady player in my book. He understands pacing, is a ball mover most times, knows when to gamble on D. On the negative side he takes so many poor shots at horrible times, can't seem to figure out the pick and roll and his brain farts are painful

7.) Wilson Chandler-It's funny, I actually think Wilson is one of the more intelligent guys on the team, but he has the same problems as Felton. ON the positive side, his defensive position and reactions are fantastic. His adjustment to defenders is top notch. For a guy that shoots a lot he's actually a ball mover at times. I know most people won't agree with this, but when I see the ball flying around teh court the guys on the court tend to be Wilson, Turiaf, Landry and Gallo. Unfortunately Wilson's disjointed, ill-timed, hands in the face shooting kill me. His inabiltiy to understand when to shoot the 3 and when not to, kill me. He is a momentum killer on offense as often as he is a momentum causer? Had to drop him far because of this

8.) Toney Douglas-Shot selection is a killer here. There is a reason why we struggle so much when his shot is off. Also he gambles far too often on defense and sometimes at the most ill-advised times

Basketball idiots
9.) Timofey Mozgov-I know he's having a hard time adjusting to the NBA and that's understandable but......When is he going to figure out that if he lunges at a penetrator in the NBA they are just going to throw their bodies into him. Twelve games is enough to start figuring this out, and he hasn't come close. Another major flaw is this "I know how to box out but I don't know how to actually go get the rebound" nonsense. How about this, figure it out.

10.) Anthony Randolph-Should still be in college learning. Shot selection is horrible. Floor recognition is horrible. Understanding flow is nonexistant. Knowing how to use his immense skills and athletic ability is minimal. However on the defensive end when he's hustling he actually shows a pretty good grasp of rotations and help defense. It appears that this is actually an offensive problem. I would actually place him above Mozgov but am cutting Mozgov some slack because he's trying to adjust to the US game.

Bip, your post is just fantastic. Can you do a power rankings of the most intelligent posts, which will obviously be topped by me?

TMS wrote:i'd put Fields at the top of the list along w/Turiaf... i don't really see Amare as that intelligent of a player to be honest... he seems to make bad decisions w/the ball once it's in his hands... he seems to try to force it too much when he's not playing with a guy like Nash that can set him up for easy buckets... maybe that's out of distrust of his teammates at this point, who knows... i will concede that he does make nice passes for a bigman & is a better help defender than i thought he might be... all the rest of your estimations are dead on IMO.

I dont' disagree with you. I think Amare is learning to adjust without Nash. I actually would have droppedhim lower if I hadn't seen some progress the last few games, but I think he's starting to figure it out. Still forces a lot of shots and he will drop in teh power rankings if this continues.

martin wrote:Bip, regarding Chandler and his shooting while contested or not in flow and/or other mistakes. I have always wondered if he had a strong PG around him (or if the Knicks in general had a strong PG around them) if the mistakes would diminish and/or the collective IQ would go up.

TD is still learning basic PG skill, so this may complicate the mistake level for the whole team.

But if Felton demanded the ball more so that he could facilitate offense for the team, perhaps the mistakes the players make would be minimized. It seems to me that when Nash senses that something may go amiss, he runs right for the person with the ball and yells for it so that he can take over. I would assume other high-level PGs and teammates (Kobe comes to mind) do that often. And Felton should be too.

Fair point. The bonus of having a great PG is that he controls the ball, the pace and who gets the ball and where. These guys are often forced to create shots for themselves, which leads to an increased number of forced/poor shots. That being said, Wilson should know by now that he is not a great 3 point shooter and should have a better grasp of when to shoot them and when to pass. Also, he's a good offensive player so I'm okay with the occassional force and I'm okay with the occassional contested shot. That's not the problem. The problem is the timing of some of these shots. Another problem is he takes a lot of his shots without there being any type of of rthym or flow to it. We don't rebound because nobody expected the shot to go up. His last problem is that he obviously learned from nate and Stephon and Al and Larry adn the rest "when things are going bad, abandon the offense and go one on one. Nash type would eliminate soem of this, but not completely

that video of Blatche "defending" the PnR is horrrrrrendous

Bippity10 wrote:

martin wrote:Bip, regarding Chandler and his shooting while contested or not in flow and/or other mistakes. I have always wondered if he had a strong PG around him (or if the Knicks in general had a strong PG around them) if the mistakes would diminish and/or the collective IQ would go up.

TD is still learning basic PG skill, so this may complicate the mistake level for the whole team.

But if Felton demanded the ball more so that he could facilitate offense for the team, perhaps the mistakes the players make would be minimized. It seems to me that when Nash senses that something may go amiss, he runs right for the person with the ball and yells for it so that he can take over. I would assume other high-level PGs and teammates (Kobe comes to mind) do that often. And Felton should be too.

Fair point. The bonus of having a great PG is that he controls the ball, the pace and who gets the ball and where. These guys are often forced to create shots for themselves, which leads to an increased number of forced/poor shots. That being said, Wilson should know by now that he is not a great 3 point shooter and should have a better grasp of when to shoot them and when to pass. Also, he's a good offensive player so I'm okay with the occassional force and I'm okay with the occassional contested shot. That's not the problem. The problem is the timing of some of these shots. Another problem is he takes a lot of his shots without there being any type of of rthym or flow to it. We don't rebound because nobody expected the shot to go up. His last problem is that he obviously learned from nate and Stephon and Al and Larry adn the rest "when things are going bad, abandon the offense and go one on one. Nash type would eliminate soem of this, but not completely

BTW I think the NBA is full of players who can't shoot the 3 at an acceptable percentage but still continue to shoot them at the exact same rate. Why this is..I do not know.

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:

martin wrote:Bip, regarding Chandler and his shooting while contested or not in flow and/or other mistakes. I have always wondered if he had a strong PG around him (or if the Knicks in general had a strong PG around them) if the mistakes would diminish and/or the collective IQ would go up.

TD is still learning basic PG skill, so this may complicate the mistake level for the whole team.

But if Felton demanded the ball more so that he could facilitate offense for the team, perhaps the mistakes the players make would be minimized. It seems to me that when Nash senses that something may go amiss, he runs right for the person with the ball and yells for it so that he can take over. I would assume other high-level PGs and teammates (Kobe comes to mind) do that often. And Felton should be too.

Fair point. The bonus of having a great PG is that he controls the ball, the pace and who gets the ball and where. These guys are often forced to create shots for themselves, which leads to an increased number of forced/poor shots. That being said, Wilson should know by now that he is not a great 3 point shooter and should have a better grasp of when to shoot them and when to pass. Also, he's a good offensive player so I'm okay with the occassional force and I'm okay with the occassional contested shot. That's not the problem. The problem is the timing of some of these shots. Another problem is he takes a lot of his shots without there being any type of of rthym or flow to it. We don't rebound because nobody expected the shot to go up. His last problem is that he obviously learned from nate and Stephon and Al and Larry adn the rest "when things are going bad, abandon the offense and go one on one. Nash type would eliminate soem of this, but not completely

BTW I think the NBA is full of players who can't shoot the 3 at an acceptable percentage but still continue to shoot them at the exact same rate. Why this is..I do not know.

After coaching high school for 10 seasons and winning simply because most of my compadres were idiots, I'd have to say that this mentality starts in high school

"Also he gambles far too often on defense and sometimes at the most ill-advised times.

How to you reach that conclusion. Is it an intuitive reaction to watching the games? Or do you have a more objective method for making that statement.

I have seen Toney make very valuable steals at key points in the game. He gets 1.8 steals a game, most of which are converted into sure point. When his steal attempt fails, its easy to say that he shouldn't have tried this time in hindsight. But I am confident that you could criticize the set ups of a lot of the steals that Toney successfully completed, if only they hadn't been successful

My gut feeling is that the steals Toney makes, disrupts the other team's offensive and is very valuable to the Knicks. So I am curious, how you justify the "gambles too much tag"?

rvwink wrote:Toney Douglas

"Also he gambles far too often on defense and sometimes at the most ill-advised times.

How to you reach that conclusion. Is it an intuitive reaction to watching the games? Or do you have a more objective method for making that statement.

I have seen Toney make very valuable steals at key points in the game. He gets 1.8 steals a game, most of which are converted into sure point. When his steal attempt fails, its easy to say that he shouldn't have tried this time in hindsight. But I am confident that you could criticize the set ups of a lot of the steals that Toney successfully completed, if only they hadn't been successful

My gut feeling is that the steals Toney makes, disrupts the other team's offensive and is very valuable to the Knicks. So I am curious, how you justify the "gambles too much tag"?

I always thought of TD as a gutty defensive player who fights over screens but was shocked when his defensive rating in Basketball Prospectus was low. I'll have to look more into how they calculate the rating.

I have noticed this season that sometimes he is awesome on D and sometimes he looks lost. Don't know how much of tonight's game I'll be able to watch but would like to pay attention to Toney on D.

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:

rvwink wrote:Toney Douglas

"Also he gambles far too often on defense and sometimes at the most ill-advised times.

How to you reach that conclusion. Is it an intuitive reaction to watching the games? Or do you have a more objective method for making that statement.

I have seen Toney make very valuable steals at key points in the game. He gets 1.8 steals a game, most of which are converted into sure point. When his steal attempt fails, its easy to say that he shouldn't have tried this time in hindsight. But I am confident that you could criticize the set ups of a lot of the steals that Toney successfully completed, if only they hadn't been successful

My gut feeling is that the steals Toney makes, disrupts the other team's offensive and is very valuable to the Knicks. So I am curious, how you justify the "gambles too much tag"?

I always thought of TD as a gutty defensive player who fights over screens but was shocked when his defensive rating in Basketball Prospectus was low. I'll have to look more into how they calculate the rating.

I have noticed this season that sometimes he is awesome on D and sometimes he looks lost. Don't know how much of tonight's game I'll be able to watch but would like to pay attention to Toney on D.

I'd say the whole teams defense picks up when he is on the floor... usually. The swing in scoring began last game when TD came in and there were some deflections and TO's He pushes the ball on turnovers well. His control of the game is getting much better. He seldom turns over I would be happier with him making a few in close before trying to light it up from 3 other than that the shots he has taken he is usually quite capable of making. And he is getting far better at the PnR.

He does get tunnel vision when he has some defenders on him. But hell look who he is up against.

Felton is a bulldog and not afraid to take the big shot. He is getting better. He always did have good speed and smarts. He will be fine.

Amar'e is who he is and has a rep around the league as a playoff time player. His play speaks for itself. His calling out others does as well. My thoughts. Keep it in the locker room and speak your mind there. Hash it out. And don't expect to all ways be right either. Say what you want but I will be watching to see if Stat will cut off the baseline by moving his feet to take the charge. I can recall this only about 2 times. But I have not watched every play of every game. When you speak to the press fella present a united front and say 'we'

I too think Timo is not that bad. I'd almost say his IQ is pretty good but he is not up to speed with the pace of the game. Maybe slow in making decisions but they are the often the right one.

I would even be a bit kinder to Felton as he seems to make many choices with his many touches so the good, and the bad get magnified or sorts. If anything he is like the Moz but in reverse. He almost seems to make hasty decisions. splitting hairs on your good evaluation.

Maybe AR actually goes a rung or two LOWER on a laddered scale into Nate like bone head land of the clueless.