[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

So where are the fast break points?
Author Thread
Rookie
Posts: 27049
Alba Posts: 28
Joined: 10/15/2008
Member: #2274

10/25/2010  9:22 AM
Now that we have an athletic team with speed, when are we going to see the run and gun offense? would like to see them open it up some...i just don't get it. Would like'd to have seen some ssol in the pre-season. Would have been a good time to implement the actual offense that MDA (tweaker) preaches....how exactly does MDA evaluate players roles if they aren't implementing the actual offense? vewy vewy confused man...what is our team identity?
AUTOADVERT
SupremeCommander
Posts: 34060
Alba Posts: 35
Joined: 4/28/2006
Member: #1127

10/25/2010  9:29 AM
This team will get its butt kicked if it goes into sixth-gear-run-and-gun... the shooters aren't good enough and no one hits the glass hard. They'll need to push the pace and rely on their size, athleticism, and versatility... but I really do not want to see box scores where the Knicks have 30 defensive rebounds and 8 made of 30 three point attempts. That does not float my boat
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
Rookie
Posts: 27049
Alba Posts: 28
Joined: 10/15/2008
Member: #2274

10/25/2010  11:22 AM    LAST EDITED: 10/25/2010  11:24 AM
so you think that MDA has decided to scrap the offense again this year and that with all the roster moves, we still don't have the right personal to run the system? So basically, they are keying on defensive turnovers to run the fast break and otherwise will run an up-tempo half quart set.

Just seems odd that he gives up on his offense, once again, before he even tries to implement it. So basically, it will not work unless he has the right personal?

Also, even if we add Melo, we still won't have those 'shooters' with our current roster 'depth'....so i guess the system wont work even if we get Melo.....we still need a premier scoring SG who can shoot consistently

Nalod
Posts: 71204
Alba Posts: 155
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
10/25/2010  11:24 AM    LAST EDITED: 10/25/2010  11:25 AM
Fast break points are born from rebounding..........

Thats what is so funny about MDA's reputation. If your not playing D and rebounding you can't run. His PHX teams, the ones that did the best were good that way.

Can't run without Rebounds!

Brigg's called it a few weeks ago.

Rookie
Posts: 27049
Alba Posts: 28
Joined: 10/15/2008
Member: #2274

10/25/2010  11:27 AM
now i'm really confused...when we had a rebounder (david lee) we didn't play defense or run...now we play defense and don't rebound or run..... i mean WTF, when are we gonna put it all together and run the system...isn't that on the coaching staff?
knickstorrents
Posts: 21121
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/23/2010
Member: #3050
Hong Kong
10/25/2010  11:28 AM
Playing at SSOL speed also needs a great point guard. Barring that, you need everyone to be familiar with each other's game.

Right now, the Knicks aren't there yet. It's funny, we have pretty good outlet passing I feel, but we aren't that great on the boards. Timo is a great outlet passer but he still gets outhustled on the boards.

Rose is not the answer.
SupremeCommander
Posts: 34060
Alba Posts: 35
Joined: 4/28/2006
Member: #1127

10/25/2010  11:31 AM
Rookie wrote:so you think that MDA has decided to scrap the offense again this year and that with all the roster moves, we still don't have the right personal to run the system? So basically, they are keying on defensive turnovers to run the fast break and otherwise will run an up-tempo half quart set.

Just seems odd that he gives up on his offense, once again, before he even tries to implement it. So basically, it will not work unless he has the right personal?

Also, even if we add Melo, we still won't have those 'shooters' with our current roster 'depth'....so i guess the system wont work even if we get Melo.....we still need a premier scoring SG who can shoot consistently

yes, I don't think we have the right personnel for his system... I do think the personnel is getting closer and closer to the ideal though

the team needs better shooters and someone like Camby

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
Nalod
Posts: 71204
Alba Posts: 155
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
10/25/2010  11:34 AM    LAST EDITED: 10/25/2010  11:36 AM
Rookie wrote:now i'm really confused...when we had a rebounder (david lee) we didn't play defense or run...now we play defense and don't rebound or run..... i mean WTF, when are we gonna put it all together and run the system...isn't that on the coaching staff?

Your right, DLee was great for the system.

To answer the question of if we have the right players the answer is unconclusive.

Season has yet to start and we have 10 new players on the team this year. One preseason can't answer it.

Tune in and see what happens.

That Highlight where Ray feeds AMare up court with a bounce pass was Nash like. Ray is no Nash, but he is better than he has shown thus far.

This team has upside from here. No need to keep adding names. Camby is 53 years old, he is not coming. Baby Camby (AR) is still going thru puberty.

TymeLessKnicks
Posts: 21061
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 12/6/2005
Member: #1050
Sweden
10/25/2010  11:35 AM
maybe this team needs less time in the gym and more time in the video room? maybe get them those ipad things that other teams are using? maybe it will click when they see themselves getting out-hustled for rebounds over and over?
Had enough Melo?
SupremeCommander
Posts: 34060
Alba Posts: 35
Joined: 4/28/2006
Member: #1127

10/25/2010  11:37 AM
Nalod wrote:
Rookie wrote:now i'm really confused...when we had a rebounder (david lee) we didn't play defense or run...now we play defense and don't rebound or run..... i mean WTF, when are we gonna put it all together and run the system...isn't that on the coaching staff?

Your right, DLee was great for the system.

To answer the question of if we have the right players the answer is unconclusive.

Season has yet to start and we have 10 new players on the team this year. One preseason can't answer it.

Tune in and see what happens.

That Highlight where Ray feeds AMare up court with a bounce pass was Nash like. Ray is no Nash, but he is better than he has shown thus far.

This team has upside from here. No need to keep adding names. Camby is 53 years old, he is not coming. Baby Camby (AR) is still going thru puberty.

certain aspects of Lee's games were ideal for the system, but certain aspects of his game just didn't exist and negated a lot of what he brought to the table

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
Rookie
Posts: 27049
Alba Posts: 28
Joined: 10/15/2008
Member: #2274

10/25/2010  11:40 AM
Nalod wrote:
Rookie wrote:now i'm really confused...when we had a rebounder (david lee) we didn't play defense or run...now we play defense and don't rebound or run..... i mean WTF, when are we gonna put it all together and run the system...isn't that on the coaching staff?

Your right, DLee was great for the system.

To answer the question of if we have the right players the answer is unconclusive.

Season has yet to start and we have 10 new players on the team this year. One preseason can't answer it.

Tune in and see what happens.

well, that's why i'm asking...because he didn't try and implement the system in pre-season, when the games don't count. isn't that the time to work on these things, when the games don't count? Also, if the system requires positions to play a certain role...why not have the players play their 'roles' in the system? I just don't get it

SupremeCommander
Posts: 34060
Alba Posts: 35
Joined: 4/28/2006
Member: #1127

10/25/2010  11:52 AM
Rookie wrote:
Nalod wrote:
Rookie wrote:now i'm really confused...when we had a rebounder (david lee) we didn't play defense or run...now we play defense and don't rebound or run..... i mean WTF, when are we gonna put it all together and run the system...isn't that on the coaching staff?

Your right, DLee was great for the system.

To answer the question of if we have the right players the answer is unconclusive.

Season has yet to start and we have 10 new players on the team this year. One preseason can't answer it.

Tune in and see what happens.

well, that's why i'm asking...because he didn't try and implement the system in pre-season, when the games don't count. isn't that the time to work on these things, when the games don't count? Also, if the system requires positions to play a certain role...why not have the players play their 'roles' in the system? I just don't get it

the system doesn't require specific things from specific positions... the personnel has to be very flexible to be truly effective. that said, no speedball attack works without shooters and rebounding

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
NYKBocker
Posts: 38414
Alba Posts: 474
Joined: 1/14/2003
Member: #377
USA
10/25/2010  11:56 AM
Nalod wrote:Fast break points are born from rebounding..........

Thats what is so funny about MDA's reputation. If your not playing D and rebounding you can't run. His PHX teams, the ones that did the best were good that way.

Can't run without Rebounds!

Brigg's called it a few weeks ago.

His PHX teams ran off makes as well. Felton needs to get his inner greyhound going.

NYKBocker
Posts: 38414
Alba Posts: 474
Joined: 1/14/2003
Member: #377
USA
10/25/2010  11:59 AM
knickstorrents wrote:Playing at SSOL speed also needs a great point guard. Barring that, you need everyone to be familiar with each other's game.

Right now, the Knicks aren't there yet. It's funny, we have pretty good outlet passing I feel, but we aren't that great on the boards. Timo is a great outlet passer but he still gets outhustled on the boards.

I don't know about getting outhustled. He is always trying to defend the rim which puts him in a bad postion to rebound. DLee was always in a good position to rebound because he did not protect the rim. Timo needs to watch some of Dikembe's old tapes and watch how he got those rebounds.

Rookie
Posts: 27049
Alba Posts: 28
Joined: 10/15/2008
Member: #2274

10/25/2010  12:14 PM
well, we certainly didn't have an answer for Reggie Evans who out hustled everybody, and he did seem to be the catalyst for their running game. Harangody did the same for the Celtics with his hustle and McGee freaking killed us on the boards.

this is becoming a serious concern and one that is bound to play out again until we come up with an answer

knicks1248
Posts: 42059
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #582
10/25/2010  12:40 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:
Rookie wrote:
Nalod wrote:
Rookie wrote:now i'm really confused...when we had a rebounder (david lee) we didn't play defense or run...now we play defense and don't rebound or run..... i mean WTF, when are we gonna put it all together and run the system...isn't that on the coaching staff?

Your right, DLee was great for the system.

To answer the question of if we have the right players the answer is unconclusive.

Season has yet to start and we have 10 new players on the team this year. One preseason can't answer it.

Tune in and see what happens.

well, that's why i'm asking...because he didn't try and implement the system in pre-season, when the games don't count. isn't that the time to work on these things, when the games don't count? Also, if the system requires positions to play a certain role...why not have the players play their 'roles' in the system? I just don't get it


the system doesn't require specific things from specific positions... the personnel has to be very flexible to be truly effective. that said, no speedball attack works without shooters and rebounding

Exactly, no rebounds, no 3 point shooters, its going to be tough. I still think we ran a lot more then last year.

ES
nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
10/25/2010  1:43 PM
Everyone seems to be looking for immediate improvement on all counts. NO that would happen if we had gotten Lebron. What we got now is a young team full of guys still finding their way in the league. 10 new people and it's gonna take some time to put it all together. We've been watching the team with many of its parts not clicking on all cylinders. Gallo and Felton have been off their usual game. IMO they will both eventually get back to their real level of play and not what we saw in Preseason. When the team chemistry fully develops we'll probably see a bit more fastbreak. I just don't expect it to look like the Suns with the players we have. It'll be faster in relation to what we saw the last 2 years, but I don't think they're built to run quite as fast as the Suns did under him. That was a BLAZING pace they kept up. We can't expect that, but they should be faster.
fishmike
Posts: 53848
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
10/25/2010  3:22 PM
nixluva wrote:Everyone seems to be looking for immediate improvement on all counts. NO that would happen if we had gotten Lebron. What we got now is a young team full of guys still finding their way in the league. 10 new people and it's gonna take some time to put it all together. We've been watching the team with many of its parts not clicking on all cylinders. Gallo and Felton have been off their usual game. IMO they will both eventually get back to their real level of play and not what we saw in Preseason. When the team chemistry fully develops we'll probably see a bit more fastbreak. I just don't expect it to look like the Suns with the players we have. It'll be faster in relation to what we saw the last 2 years, but I don't think they're built to run quite as fast as the Suns did under him. That was a BLAZING pace they kept up. We can't expect that, but they should be faster.
I'm looking for immediate improvement on all accounts and I dont think its too much to ask for. So far this preseason has been the same as the rest of MDA's Knick career. Some good, just as much bad. AR and Gallo have looked lost and flat. AR doesnt seem to know his role, and these are our cornerstone young players. Douglas and Mosgov look good on the other side of the coin.

The Knicks have best frontcourt player in the East sans Dwight Howard (and Amare is a better scorer). We have 2 excellent defensive players in Felton and Douglas. We have a group of versatile athletic forwards in Gallo/AR/Chandler and now Fields as well. We have a suprise 7 footer and even if he fouls out in 20 minutes every night he's going to block some shots and makes some good plays. There is enough here for the Knicks to play .500 basketball while they continue to improve internally.

They play 20 games in Oct/Nov

Knicks should be 12-8 or 11-9 barring major injuries. There is too much size, skill and athletic parts for MDA to have a losing record. I understand we arent winning the rebounding battle most nights. If we get beat 45-40 on the glass everynight we should be OK because we should be scoring at a higher rate, playing defense, hitting 3s and creating turnovers. There are simply too many good players here to play like crap and blame it on adjustments.

This offense has not looked good, and thats the part I'm ok with. There is some rhythm and feel there and it takes some time. However if we go out there and defend and put bodies on guys and hit that glass we have enough ponies to win games.

ITs on MDA to find a formula out of the gate he can lean on.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
10/25/2010  4:10 PM
fishmike wrote:
nixluva wrote:Everyone seems to be looking for immediate improvement on all counts. NO that would happen if we had gotten Lebron. What we got now is a young team full of guys still finding their way in the league. 10 new people and it's gonna take some time to put it all together. We've been watching the team with many of its parts not clicking on all cylinders. Gallo and Felton have been off their usual game. IMO they will both eventually get back to their real level of play and not what we saw in Preseason. When the team chemistry fully develops we'll probably see a bit more fastbreak. I just don't expect it to look like the Suns with the players we have. It'll be faster in relation to what we saw the last 2 years, but I don't think they're built to run quite as fast as the Suns did under him. That was a BLAZING pace they kept up. We can't expect that, but they should be faster.
I'm looking for immediate improvement on all accounts and I dont think its too much to ask for. So far this preseason has been the same as the rest of MDA's Knick career. Some good, just as much bad. AR and Gallo have looked lost and flat. AR doesnt seem to know his role, and these are our cornerstone young players. Douglas and Mosgov look good on the other side of the coin.

The Knicks have best frontcourt player in the East sans Dwight Howard (and Amare is a better scorer). We have 2 excellent defensive players in Felton and Douglas. We have a group of versatile athletic forwards in Gallo/AR/Chandler and now Fields as well. We have a suprise 7 footer and even if he fouls out in 20 minutes every night he's going to block some shots and makes some good plays. There is enough here for the Knicks to play .500 basketball while they continue to improve internally.

They play 20 games in Oct/Nov

Knicks should be 12-8 or 11-9 barring major injuries. There is too much size, skill and athletic parts for MDA to have a losing record. I understand we arent winning the rebounding battle most nights. If we get beat 45-40 on the glass everynight we should be OK because we should be scoring at a higher rate, playing defense, hitting 3s and creating turnovers. There are simply too many good players here to play like crap and blame it on adjustments.

This offense has not looked good, and thats the part I'm ok with. There is some rhythm and feel there and it takes some time. However if we go out there and defend and put bodies on guys and hit that glass we have enough ponies to win games.

ITs on MDA to find a formula out of the gate he can lean on.

Mike usually does very well when he has guys that are well rounded BB IQ wise. That's why he like Fields. Guys like that you put in this offense and they understand how to fit in to the flow of the game and contribute. AR is not a high BB IQ player at this stage. I think he can and will have a key role, but it's gonna take time for him to get, but once he does look out.

People think this is your typical run and gun, but it's not. You have to understand what's going on out on the floor in order to know what to do and you have to read the play and anticipate what is gonna happen. For young players that may take some time. Fields has experience in a similar system and a good grasp of the game. There's a reason Donnie and Mike went after guys like that.

I do agree that some level of improvement should be expected. I think I used the wrong term to express my view. I should've said some people are expecting perfection and that's not realistic, cuz it's gonna take time for this team to fully jell on both ends and for Mike to know for sure what he has in this rotation. I do tho expect that they should play well enough to win games. Don't think that I don't expect wins. I just don't think we'll see the best ball from this team until sometime further into the season. I like the SL. I think Amar'e is such a BEAST that it really makes life easier on the other 4 guys. This team has to crash the boards and keep it close. It's a simple thing tho, HIT SHOTS and this is gonna be one tough team to beat. If the shooting is weak then they're gonna have to really kick up the D to stay close.

I can't wait to see how Timo develops. I think he's eventually gonna be a real asset for us. I love this kids passing and overall feel for the game.

kam77
Posts: 27664
Alba Posts: 25
Joined: 3/17/2004
Member: #634
10/25/2010  4:29 PM
Did you watch preseason? We were running Four or Five seconds or less.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
So where are the fast break points?

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy