What is Knicks plan is it going young and STAT as support? Or is it win now so get another super star?

If this team is really focus on rebuilding and trying to build the team around the young guys then my thoughts are that they will keep AR/Gallo/Wilson for the long run. But if this team is thinking win now then I don’t disagree getting Melo and probably CP3 in the near future.

I am probably in the minority but I am in the opinion that this team is thinking youth and take the hits and misses with that strategy. But then I catch myself thinking this is NY and the attitude is to win now and have never been known for patience. I am just glad DW is our President of operation for the moment but I am also afraid James Dolan as the owner that will tease the fans year end and year out.

Your thoughts?

rp wrote:I have read a lot of arguments and responded to some on the blogs and UK about let us trade AR/Gallo/Wilson for Melo so I bring a couple of questions to the UK forum.

What is Knicks plan is it going young and STAT as support? Or is it win now so get another super star?

If this team is really focus on rebuilding and trying to build the team around the young guys then my thoughts are that they will keep AR/Gallo/Wilson for the long run. But if this team is thinking win now then I don’t disagree getting Melo and probably CP3 in the near future.

I am probably in the minority but I am in the opinion that this team is thinking youth and take the hits and misses with that strategy. But then I catch myself thinking this is NY and the attitude is to win now and have never been known for patience. I am just glad DW is our President of operation for the moment but I am also afraid James Dolan as the owner that will tease the fans year end and year out.

Your thoughts?

Dolan don't give a sht about winning now or after. He needs marketable and exiting product.
So I would think DW can convince him to build solid and exiting team for long run instead of going for another crap-shot to get a chip now.
IT already tried first and end up in disgrace. Not sure if Dolan can add 1 to 1 but we have some hope.

TMS wrote:sooner or later you gotta go for it, you can't keep waiting forever.

yep... the one caveat is be smart about it and reload as needed, so you don't see, say, the 90s Knicks deteriorate into the 00s Knicks

but, yeah, man up and put your ball sack on the table if it is the opportune time to make a play for glory

TMS wrote:how long do you plan to wait for the future to become the present? 2 years? 3 years? 5 years? i thought we were waiting for 2010 to come around to go for it for the past 3 seasons? is it the 2013 plan now? sooner or later you gotta go for it, you can't keep waiting forever.

This is exactly my sentiment also. You can't keep waiting and waiting. It takes a lot of courage to go for it. Give me Amare/Melo and CP3. Deals have to be made then the Knicks shouldn't hesitate. All I keep hearing is we will deplete the roster. The hardest part of NBA is getting your superstars lined up. Once that is done the roster seems to fill out pretty easily. Role players are everywhere but stars are not.

TMS wrote:how long do you plan to wait for the future to become the present? 2 years? 3 years? 5 years? i thought we were waiting for 2010 to come around to go for it for the past 3 seasons? is it the 2013 plan now? sooner or later you gotta go for it, you can't keep waiting forever.

I am with you on this TMS, it seems like to me the organization doesn't seem to have some clear answer when is now. It seems like the Knicks organization seems to be stuck in the middle which just doesn't translate to winning. We are not fortunate enough to get the super stars from the draft so we try to acquire them via trade or free agency but then what. We just let them get old and then rebuild again? Is this intentional to tease us so we can continue to follow but not get anything in return? I just wish there is a clear answer but we seem to be in limbo.

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:

TMS wrote:how long do you plan to wait for the future to become the present? 2 years? 3 years? 5 years? i thought we were waiting for 2010 to come around to go for it for the past 3 seasons? is it the 2013 plan now? sooner or later you gotta go for it, you can't keep waiting forever.

I don't get it. So because we were waiting for Lebron/Wade etc..the plan absolutely has to be win in 1 year??

Shouldn't the plan just be to always take the best available options vs. HAVING to do something in 1 year exactly? Just because we missed on Bron/Wade does that mean we have to sign FAs to whatever contracts they want and get bent over on trades because we have to win nownownow?

DW and MDA both said the plan now is to make moves to get wins..not cap space.

and btw...there is no offer on the table right now that could get us Melo or CP3. I don't understand why people are talking like there's a 3 team deal right now that would deliver us both of those players and Walsh is turning his nose up at it because he love Gallo/AR so much.

CP3 and Melo will both be FAs. If they want to be Knicks they can be Knicks. It appears best shot is to WAIT and sign them as free agents. All of you guys who are arguing that Gallo/Randolph etc aren't that great, think about this:

You guys could def. be right. Gallo and AR could just have ceiling as solid role players. If this is the case then don't the GMs of both Denver and New Orleans have a ton of other places they'd rather make deals with if they're trading their franchise players?

Even if Walsh was willing to trade the farm for Melo...we'd have to wait till the end of Paul's contract to add him to the Amare/Melo core. We don't have the assets to trade for both of them right??

When MDA/Walsh were hired they had no choice but to blow up the roster no? Everyone was on board with them doing whatever it takes to be as attractive as possible this past offseason. I understand the impatience of waiting a decade plus to see a decent team on the court but I don't understand what else could have been done up to this point other than ticky tack arguments about things like was the Fishlips trade necessary.

I don't totally disagree with you, it would be best to get Melo in FA. With that said there are no guarantees in free agency. As you saw last year things happen and they change. If for some reason Denver comes up with a deal that lands Melo in Orlando does he still hit the FA market? If for some reason he gets a guarantee from another team for an extension on his contract and it is a desirable location what then? In a span of months you may have lost out on LeBron, Wade and Melo. Like I said you have to set the superstars up first then worry about role players. We can wait on the young players, we can wait on free agency, all I know is time doesn't wait for anyone of us.

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:

TMS wrote:how long do you plan to wait for the future to become the present? 2 years? 3 years? 5 years? i thought we were waiting for 2010 to come around to go for it for the past 3 seasons? is it the 2013 plan now? sooner or later you gotta go for it, you can't keep waiting forever.

I don't get it. So because we were waiting for Lebron/Wade etc..the plan absolutely has to be win in 1 year??

Shouldn't the plan just be to always take the best available options vs. HAVING to do something in 1 year exactly? Just because we missed on Bron/Wade does that mean we have to sign FAs to whatever contracts they want and get bent over on trades because we have to win nownownow?

DW and MDA both said the plan now is to make moves to get wins..not cap space.

and btw...there is no offer on the table right now that could get us Melo or CP3. I don't understand why people are talking like there's a 3 team deal right now that would deliver us both of those players and Walsh is turning his nose up at it because he love Gallo/AR so much.

CP3 and Melo will both be FAs. If they want to be Knicks they can be Knicks. It appears best shot is to WAIT and sign them as free agents. All of you guys who are arguing that Gallo/Randolph etc aren't that great, think about this:

You guys could def. be right. Gallo and AR could just have ceiling as solid role players. If this is the case then don't the GMs of both Denver and New Orleans have a ton of other places they'd rather make deals with if they're trading their franchise players?

Even if Walsh was willing to trade the farm for Melo...we'd have to wait till the end of Paul's contract to add him to the Amare/Melo core. We don't have the assets to trade for both of them right??

When MDA/Walsh were hired they had no choice but to blow up the roster no? Everyone was on board with them doing whatever it takes to be as attractive as possible this past offseason. I understand the impatience of waiting a decade plus to see a decent team on the court but I don't understand what else could have been done up to this point other than ticky tack arguments about things like was the Fishlips trade necessary.

how in the hell do you consider the T-Mac trade opposition as "ticky tack" arguing? that's ridiculous... that was 1 of the biggest trades this franchise has made in years & could have a lasting effect on our future depending on the players that are taken w/the picks we gave up... to have doubted that trade is only natural & completely justified.

as for being impatient, i am perfectly willing to be patient... i have been very patient up to this point not willing to give up cap space on 3rd & 4th tier players like Gerald Wallace, David Lee, Andre Iguodala, Zach Randolph & the like that others around here said we'd be absolute morons to pass up on... the reason i've remained patient is because i wanted to hold onto our assets in case a top player became available... now i dunno what NBA you follow but to me Carmelo Anthony is a top notch player in the game... not on Lebron or Kobe's level but certainly on the next notch of superstars in this league without a question... IF there is an opportunity to trade for him without giving up every single young player we have (meaning if we could hold onto at least 1 of Gallo or AR in the process), then i think you'd have to be an idiot to pass up on that opportunity... i think i've made that point pretty clear... this has nothing to do w/being impatient... it has everything to do with realizing the type of talent that a guy like Melo can bring to the table... this organization has never had a devastating 1-2 tandem like Amare & Melo in all the years i've been following this franchise... put some good role players around those 2 & you got yourself a team that you can contend with for years to come & quite possibly win a championship with if the right pieces fall into place & either Gallo or AR (whoever is remaining) ever turns out to be that viable 3rd option, or if CP3 ends up coming here in 2011... who knows what the future will bring? all i know is the present, & to me, Melo clearly makes this a better basketball team.

I say get Mello now! Gallo and Randolph don't seem to be what we think they are. We can sign plenty of 3 point shooters. The last 2 games I saw the Knicks gave up a lot of points. No defense. D'Antonio is the wrong man for the knicks job. You saw how the last game they 3 teamed Amear. You will see a lot of that during regular season. Gallo in some ways reminds me of John Starks but not as good as Starks. Gallo have good days and just as many bad days.Randolph plays out of control and he is not a team player. Once he gets the ball the ball stops moving and he will try to shoot if 5 guys are around him he just wont pass of. They are not consistant and untile we get consistant shooters and defenders around Amear we are doomed.

I don't care what philosophy is used to build the team the goal is winning a chip. Prior to Miami getting all 3 we had a as good a shot as any with a potential Lebron + 1 combo, but the entire landscape has changed.

loweyecue wrote:There are no absolutes. Even with Amare-Melo-CP3 we may not be able to beat he Heat/Lakers we will probably be able to beat the Celts.
Going all out for Lebron along with a second max was a no-brainer that IS instant contender status. Now these three would have been instant contenders in their own right but now that the Heat is stacked like they are things are different. I guess it comes down to whether you truly believe that we can beat Miami with those 3, I am not convinced we can.

I don't care what philosophy is used to build the team the goal is winning a chip. Prior to Miami getting all 3 we had a as good a shot as any with a potential Lebron + 1 combo, but the entire landscape has changed.

using that line of thinking the Knicks should have never invested to try & improve during the Michael Jordan years... what's the point of having a professional sports team if you're not trying to improve yourself every year? so what that Miami has the big 3 now? we can't worry about Miami anymore, we have to worry about how we can make our own team better, & to me adding Carmelo Anthony to play next to Amare clearly does that... we'll worry about Miami when/if we face them in the ECF, but we gotta make it there first... right now what other big 3 would you put up against Miami's other than Amare-Melo-CP3 that would have a shot of beating them? i'd roll w/that all day & take my chances.