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Article: Mike D'Antoni ain't know Pat Riley
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CrushAlot
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8/1/2010  2:38 AM
Leadership Class Discussion: Mike D'Antoni Ain't No Pat Riley
Written by LivesInNewJersey
Thursday, 25 February 2010 07:44
Forget for a moment that we were disrespectfully divorced by fax from one of the most successful coaches in NBA history. When Knicks fans put their anger aside and remember that Pat Riley left the Knicks in decent shape when he skipped out of his contract for a better deal with the Heat, they will also remember that this man is a leader and winner (and a New Yorker). He always has been. He has been a champion as a coach, player and team president. For this reason, I featured, as part of our ongoing exploration into the makings of good leadership, Riles' view on how a winning coach handles his bench players. In Fanatics Leadership Series: Pat Riley , Riley's explanation informs us, in part, how and why D'Antoni did such a poor job pulling this team together the past two years.

Far too many fans and bloggers use the weak excuse that "coach D'Antoni doesn't have the horses" for creating a winner. Such reasoning ignores the truth regarding the inconsistency and listlessness of the Knicks' play. During D'Antoni's tenure, at times the Knicks have shown they could play together at a competitive level. At other times, the thoroughness of their losing can be attributed to a lack of collective desire and focus as well as a defensive philosophy and match-up decisions that surrender games from the jump ball on. These problems start with management, not the employees.


When Walsh and D'Antoni came aboard, the Knicks broke the very first rule stated in the Riley excerpt. The organization started and never stopped coveting players on other teams. From the very beginning, the team on the floor was no longer the Knicks. They were simply fodder for creating the Knicks of the future. This theme ran through just about every team personnel action as Walsh and D'Antoni did little to quell the very public focus on their "2010 Plan" based on success with the 2010 free agency class, most notably and namely LeBron James.

The organizational message was clear to the current players regardless of Walsh's verbal insistence to the contrary -- "as a collective, you are not as important to us as a team of players as you are a collection of expiring contracts, players on extended tryouts, and practice dummies for our young stars."

Knicks management never offered its players a message that would unite the team nor motivate the players to come to a mutually beneficial agreement to "win"-- Riley calls it the "covenant." Unlike Riley, D'Antoni never gathered his players and convinced them it was the Knicks against the world. Instead, it was always the Knicks brain trust ("lametrust" anyone ?) against the players and the contracts obstructing cap space and threatening the LeBron era. This combative stance started last season with the bizarre and unprofessional treatment of the equally bizarre Stephon Marbury and wasn't publicly altered until, after the worst losing streak in Knicks history this season, Walsh stated that he was tired of the LeBron talk and that they would focus more on the present players.

As Riley points out, the message comes from one's actions as well as one's words.


Walsh's and D'Antoni's first assignment in building a new team was to rid the Knicks of Marbury. It was clear that the Knicks signed Chris Duhon, for the full mid-level exception and a promise to be the Knicks' starter at pg, in order to replace Marbury. Instead of being straightforward and honest, they conspired poorly to be disingenuous in their bungled effort to out-smart the Brooklyn native, who was representing himself with the help of the union. Walsh gambled that he would behave poorly enough to save them some money and embarrassment. They had hoped to reduce his contract payment by fining him or force him to take a much lower buyout figure than he was willing to take. Initially Walsh refused to buy out Marbury's contract which would have been the prudent move along with separating him from the team immediately.

At training camp in September 2008, Walsh said "I can only tell you this, I was doing this in Indiana for a long time and I can't ever remember buying out a contract. I did it through trades. (Buying players out) just isn't good management." In line with this message, D'Antoni claimed Marbury was to be given a new start. But, after Marbury played the good, dutiful baller in the pre-season, D'Antoni awkwardly and disingenuously handled eliminating Marbury from the rotation. The claim of a fresh start was an intentional head-fake meant to get Marbury to make the wrong move which he did not until Walsh and D'Antoni tried to set him up by offering him a chance to play after telling him he was unwanted. They publicized his decision not to accept the offer as insubordination in violation of his contract. He supposedly had declined to play when "ordered" to do so.


And the end result? D'Antoni did not give Marbury a fresh start. Walsh wound up buying out Marbury's contract and Marbury went to a better team.


The major problem with management's abysmal handling of the Marbury situation wasn't the treatment of Marbury but the message it sent to the team at the beginning of the new regime. Instead of allowing the team to start over with the new anointed guard corp of Duhon, Jamal Crawford and Nate Robinson, the disruptive spectre of Marbury remained in camp and around the team. This coupled with D'Antoni's insistence that David Lee was not his kind of player ( he admitted that was a mistake before this past all-star game) added to tensions distracting from team building.


By allowing Marbury to remain around the team when everyone knew he was being pushed out, Walsh and D'Antoni showed no respect for the team and did not provide an environment for building cohesion. More significantly, the situation informed players how management was willing to lie to and mistreat other players in order to achieve their objectives. Marbury had once been a favored son and instead of being dealt with honestly and directly, Knicks management was disingenious and incompetent. It set the stage for the many complaints by players about management's failure to communicate honestly and clearly.

It was not until the Knicks were in the midst of a historic losing streak this year that Walsh publicly claimed he was tired of all the LeBron talk. He finally recognized how unwanted and unwelcome it was making his players feel. There inconsistent effort was the proof. However, his assertion was too little, too late. That message should have been delivered the previous year when a LeBron visit was toasted by all without Knicks management promotion of its own players. The Knicks were clearly not serious and honest about building a winning culture before the summer of 2010.

The focus on other players was also heightened by the acquisition of expiring contracts as opposed to players. The past two seasons became no more than extended tryout after the trades of Jamal Crawford and Zach Randolph, the team's two highest scorers. Almost all of the tryouts, especially for bigs like Darko Milicic, Chris Wilcox and Jonathon Bender, were only slightly longer than training camp contracts.

Riley has it right (and a lot of fans said it was going to happen) when he talks about the inevitable setting in of the "Disease of Me." While management focuses on everything other than the team at hand, the players, as professionals, concerned about their own livelihood focus on themselves. This is especially true of those with expiring contracts showcasing themselves for employment for the immediate future.

In the Knicks case, the disease of me was spread by D'Antoni's obvious and sickening favoritism. The coach must set standards for the entire team and empower the players to police each other to mutual benefit. Riley writes, "You as a team have set standards that you think will make us a championship team. We as a group will monitor each other. And I as your coach will enforce them. You might not like the consequences of failing to get behind the team's standards." As he did with the Suns, D'Antoni clearly has players who will not be subjected to the same standards and practices as everyone else. While, D'Antoni purports to make decisions based on a combination of seniority and meritocracy, players often question whether he is honestly communicating to them.


In the book :07 Seconds and Less, Jack MacCullum points out how other players were criticized about defense but D'Antoni would never question Nash's exceedingly poor defensive effort.This may be fine on a winner with a superstar, but giving special treatment to unproven rookies and players on a losing team is a losing proposition. On the Knicks, no matter how poorly Duhon and Danilo Gallinari have played, D'Antoni has stuck with them while shifting other players in and out of the rotation supposedly on the basis of their play. D'Antoni preached meritocracy but was far from pracitising it, even while the team was mired in loss after loss. Most famously, before trading Nate Robinson, D'Antoni sat the energetic guard for 14 games with the claim he wanted players on the floor who would help the Knicks win. For the better part of the season, the Knicks were losing while Lee would barely play "D", Duhon could not lead a fast, fast break, and Gallinari would just disappear. But the whipping boy was Nate Robinson who had been used to clean up many a double digit deficit granted by the starters.

The problem manifests in the form of player complaints about poor communication which is simply another way of saying that D'Antoni lied to players about being given a fair chance based on their contribution to the team. This season public complaints about poor communication have come from Darko Milicic, Eddie Curry, Larry Hughes, and Nate Robinson. (This followed complaints by Lee and Robinson about lack of communication from Walsh during the summer over their free agency). D'Antoni's communication efforts were also one of the main topics of a recent discussion D'Antoni had with his captain, Chris Duhon before benching him after the acquisition of Sergio Rodriguez.

As Riley points out, leaders of winners communicate honestly and in a manner that makes even the bench player feel like part of the team and responsible for teammates who are responsible for him. After being traded to the Celtics, Nate Robinson seemed quite pleased to play for a more communicative coach. He said, "Doc, he's honest, he's straightforward, and, as a player, that's what you like, for a coach to always be honest with you and explain exactly what he wants you to do.


Recently, D'Antoni made light on his television show about criticism that he fails to communicate. One cannot say he does not take the issue seriously, but as Riley makes clear, when building a winner actions speak just as loudly as words. So far, the lips are moving but the Knicks' treatment of its players is not saying "Let's Win."It's more like, "See Ya, Wouldn't want to be Ya."

UPDATED: D'Antoni once again, earlier today, highlighted two of my major points when he was publicly critical of Darko Milicic and, for the first time, Danilo Gallinari who has simply disappeared in the longest season of his career. D'Antoni reiterated his message that he plays ballers based on merit, the quality of their play, which is absolutely false. (See Chris Duhon). In response to Darko's claim that he could never play well enough to get playing time, D'Antoni said "It's an easy concept. You play really well, you play. If you're saying you have a lot of practices where you dominate and I don't play you, I find that hard to believe.'' Secondly D'Antoni's assessment of Gallo's approach to the game mirrors the lackadaisical disconnect of his current and former teammates. Of Gallo, D'Antoni said "I don't know. I don't believe too much on that stuff [the rookie wall]. Obviously he's got to turn his motor up. You have to be emotionally invested in the team or otherwise your game suffers. This game is too hard.'' What D'Antoni fails to realize or failed to do is create an environment where there is a team to feel connected to. At this point, D'Antoni should man up and take responsibility for the mess he and Walsh have created and tell fans how they intend to do better, besides filling cap space, from here on in. I won't hold your breath.

I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
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nixluva
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8/1/2010  3:04 AM
BORING! This GM and Coach came into an outright disaster of a franchise. Now going into year 3 the team is younger, longer, faster, more athletic, deeper, more balanced and fiscally in shape for the future. These 2 guys are setup for success in yr 3, no plan can get you there faster than that except for adding 2 superstars, which they tried to do. Donnie gave Mike a balanced 2 way roster that can play fast as he wants to.

OK! We get it! Mike isn't Riley. How many coaches are? So what DW and MDA were basically BS'ing their way thru the last 2 yrs. They really didn't have much choice. Now they can get down to business.

SupremeCommander
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8/1/2010  4:40 AM
I agree that there was no "covenant." But a covenant is a bilateral agreement between two (or more) parties to perform some action. Management had no covenant with the players. Coaching had no covenant with the players. Players had no covenant with management. Players had no covenant with coaching.

Worst of all, the fans HAD a covenant with the players. The collective of players had no covenant with the fans. All empty, bull**** excuses. The fan-coach/coach-fan covenant is certainly debatable. I firmly believe that the fan-management/management-fan covenant is/was firmly established though.

Perhaps management's methods could be debated, but a plan was firmly communicated and executed and despite the plan not coming to full fruition, the Knicks are in far superior shape than the day teh Isiah Thomas regime ended.

So I think this article is BS because it looks at a covenant as a unilateral agreement when it isn't. IT is bilateral. The collective players didn't hold their end of the bargain either

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
franco12
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8/1/2010  7:26 AM
It was inevitable that the players could get turned off by the 2010 talk. No getting around 2010.

But D'Antoni could have gotten to the players and said- look, no one thinks we can win, and whatever happens in 2010, beyond your control. Lets go out and win, lets do the little things to help us win.

He could have gotten down and dirty and worked at it.

Instead, he mailed it in.

Any wonder the players did?

However, I am so looking forward to this season because I think we've added talent and MDA won't be able to mail it in.

It is so on him this year.

Does he have it in him to coach?

Or is he a one trick gimmick coach that needed a superstar line up to look good?

Solace
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8/1/2010  7:36 AM
I find it hard to agree with the article. The article is almost suggesting that the Knicks should've been content with a terrible team with no playoff hopes and worked hard to build that team. That's a nice point of view, but it's bad long-term planning. I think there's some interesting points, stuck in with a good amount of revisionist history. I like the Riley points, but I think the Walsh and D'Antoni points are unfairly critical and not necessarily fact based.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
SupremeCommander
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8/1/2010  7:45 AM
franco12 wrote:It was inevitable that the players could get turned off by the 2010 talk. No getting around 2010.

But D'Antoni could have gotten to the players and said- look, no one thinks we can win, and whatever happens in 2010, beyond your control. Lets go out and win, lets do the little things to help us win.

He could have gotten down and dirty and worked at it.

Instead, he mailed it in.

Any wonder the players did?

However, I am so looking forward to this season because I think we've added talent and MDA won't be able to mail it in.

It is so on him this year.

Does he have it in him to coach?

Or is he a one trick gimmick coach that needed a superstar line up to look good?

The players turned it off well before came to town. While I'm not exactly pleased with performance, I refuse to dilute the half assed effort of those players to crucify . He should've/could've done more, but at the same time, I'd say he did with players like Lee, Gallo, Wilson, and to a certain extent Douglas and Walker. He's got to get some credit too for making the destination attractive enough to land Amar'e and Felton

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
arkrud
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8/1/2010  8:44 AM
People nature needs scapegoats.
Most of the people cannot accept that fixing ruined organization of any kind is a hard collective effort.
It is much more comforting to proclaim one man failure and continue to suck.
Knicks club was a stinking piece of garbage when MDA and Walsh took over.
And it was poised to stink even more during demolition of mistakes mounted for 10 years. And it did.
Now thank to Walsh we have a fresh start.
My expectations for Walsh more than satisfied.
Now it is MDA time to prove himself in NY. Bring it up!!!
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Andrew
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8/1/2010  9:09 AM
CrushAlot, please post links to the origional article when you do post them. It's nice to know the source, give the origional site some traffic and other info....like the fact that this was posted in Feb 2010.
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foosballnick
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8/1/2010  9:56 AM
Interesting Article....I guess Riley wasn's so "Riley Like" when he won 15 games in 2007 or when he ran SVG out of town. Further, this was written in Feb...can we get something a bit less out of date?
JohnWallace44
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8/1/2010  10:06 AM
Ain't "know" - was that intentional or did you post this drunk?
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
martin
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8/1/2010  10:09 AM
Def written with a slant.

And now after we have come full circle, Donnie says "how do you like me now?" and comes out on top. It'll be another year before we can pass judgment on MDA, but IMHO certainly enough pieces are there to be very critical of him if the knicks continue to suck.

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8/1/2010  10:22 AM
is this the weekly crushalot "i hate mike d'antoni" thread?
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
JohnWallace44
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8/1/2010  10:53 AM
Its not an "article" folks, its a blog post from an anonymous hater. MikeD hasn't been great so far, but he's a proven coach that the best players in this league respect and the best coaches in the game model parts of their offense around his. Who should we have hired? This dude brings stability because he's proven that he wins with this system.

Should we have tried to get Riley back? Maybe we could have brought Ewing and Starks back from retirement too?

This has been a terrible organization in many ways in the past decade, but I don't think this is really the appropriate time to complain when our terrible GM has somehow put together a string of decent moves and the coach is overseas planning a gold medal run for DreamTeam 9.

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
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8/1/2010  11:01 AM
Grain of truth in there somewhere...d'Antoni IMO could use some parenting classes.
Motivational technique is not his forte reguardless of how bright some of his ideas are.
You don't focus on a players bad habits in a public forum. You encourage the behaviour
you wish.

That reference to the AR story of him being permitted to bring up the ball after a defensive
rebound is a classic.

It's a team game.

Bill Simmons on Tyreke Evans "The prototypical 0-guard: Someone who handles the ball all the time, looks for his own shot, gets to the rim at will and operates best if his teammates spread the floor to watch him."
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8/1/2010  12:42 PM
I guess in truth, everyone can take a page from everyone else's book. The point is, the new season has yet to begin. Our coach has been given players that are more complementary to his style of play. It's gonnabe a GREAT SEASON. Let's wait for it
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Nalod
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8/1/2010  12:44 PM
I stopped at the concept that Marbury was decieved.

I love the concept.

Somehow a player who has not been playing well and a major asswhole is asked to come into shape. He came in the year before not in shape. Imagine a world where you pay man 20 mil a year and he has to be told to be in shape. He comes in shape. but is still an *******. An inshape ******* might have better trade value than a not in shape *******. Nobody even wanted that.

Imagine you have to go out and sign a Duhon to a to year deal because your 20 mil a year player is not to even be counted on. IN shape or not.

We have to assign fault? Its situational. This is rebuilding. Whoop de damn do!

tkf
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8/1/2010  12:48 PM
I like the all out attack on gallo.. funny thing, it keeps talking about how he "dissapeared" but fails to talk about how he gave effort on defense every night, something other players didn't give... and DAvid lee, although not a good defender, gave max effort every night....

this article is a joke... quoting pat riley who quit on the knicks just doesn't do it for me...

As someone said in this thread.. "BORING"!

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
s3231
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8/1/2010  1:03 PM
It is what it is. We brought in a guy who many felt was one of the top coaches in the league (and a top assistant on the US Redeem Team) and didn't really give him anything to work with.

Before each of the last 2 seasons, I think most of the realistic fans (including me) predicted no playoffs and said outright that we didn't have the pieces yet to be competitive. D'Antoni didn't do a great job obviously and he probably make things a little harder on himself with the way he treated certain players (e.g. the Marbury situation was handled poorly) but I think it's foolish to dismiss the guy before he is given the proper tools to succeed.

This season, in my opinion, will really help us learn how good of a coach D'Antoni truly is. I don't think this Knicks roster is "stacked" and I think we are a bit young with some redundant pieces. At the same time though, D'Antoni finally has a star player to work with in NY and at least some talent that fits together. As BRIGGS has alluded to in other threads, there are a lot of potential match-up problems the Knicks can use to their advantage and that will fall on the coach.

The way this roster is assembled, it really is a perfect experiment to show if D'Antoni is a top notch coach. The roster doesn't have a ton of talent, but it does have guys that fit together and moreover, fit the system the Coach wants to run. Great situation to see how much of an impact a coach can truly have. An 8th seed, in my opinion, is the realistic goal.

"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
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8/1/2010  1:48 PM
arkrud wrote:People nature needs scapegoats.
Most of the people cannot accept that fixing ruined organization of any kind is a hard collective effort.
It is much more comforting to proclaim one man failure and continue to suck.
Knicks club was a stinking piece of garbage when MDA and Walsh took over.
And it was poised to stink even more during demolition of mistakes mounted for 10 years. And it did.
Now thank to Walsh we have a fresh start.
My expectations for Walsh more than satisfied.
Now it is MDA time to prove himself in NY. Bring it up!!!

Well said.
The author is obviously a disgruntled Nets fan, who cannot accept the piss poor offseason they had and is taking shots at us to feel better about his own ****ty team.
Anybody who thought the last two years should have produced competitive teams given our mess, needs help.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
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8/1/2010  3:51 PM
A. This article is BS. A bunch of self-idealised assumptions and then "see, I was right!!"

B. I'm so glad MDA is not Pat Riley. The guy is a major loser asswipe. I hate it when people call this guy a winner. He won as a president? Really?! He takes other peoples work (Wade, SVG et al), waits till he's utterly certain they're winners and proceeds to take credit for it.

Same thing this year. What did he do to put the Hea together? Utterly nothing. Accordinng to every single source, the Heat uber-starphuck was totally engineered by Dwyane Wade. Why is Riley getting any credit for this. Why is be being seen as some kind of messiah? All he's done is sit there, do nothing and wait for other people to do the dirty work. And then he takes the credit. If I was Wade, when I leave the Heat I would expose Riley for the poo-eating fraud he is.

Say what you want about Donnie, but he rolled up his sleeves and swam through 500 yards of living sh!t and came out clean on the other side. It was completely and utterly his own work. Riley? Sat there, grinned and got embarassingly lucky. I would be ashamed if I was him.

Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream things that never were and ask why not?
Article: Mike D'Antoni ain't know Pat Riley

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