his arms were so long, and his rep so beastly, he'd stay with the pg doubled, and then quickly run over and block the f"n SHYT out of a guy .

The difference between , say, Ben Wallace and Russell is only 1 thing..BRAINS.

Bippity10 wrote:If guys are running the pick and roll effectively it is tough to stop. Coaches understand this. They also know that if the players are forced to switch it can create awful mismatches. That being said, when you are a coach you design strategies that are meant to minimize the effectiveness of the pick and roll(or at least make the opponent work harder). You can hedge hard on the screens to keep a Chris Paul type from turning the corner. You can double the ball to force the ball handler to pass the ball to a player that is less effective creating. You can switch on every pick when you have versatile defenders(or if your team keeps getting beat on the screens). Switch when some players are involved and fight through on others. You can drop below the screen and force a poor shooter to shoot.

There are a million more complicated strategies as well. Coaches don't get upset if you design a strategy, the players follow and it doesn't work. In that situation it's your job to come up with a better strategy. The problem comes in when you ask guys to fight through screens and they consistently drop below and give up jump shot after jump shot. Or you ask a big man to hedge hard and they consistently give a soft hedge or drop off before the guard is able to recover. These are the problems that guys like Amare and Nate Robinson and Shaq have had throughout their careers. Other teams know it and use it to their advantage. This is when players get crucified.

IMO Going over the screen, deosn't exactly mean your fast enough to catch up to the ball handler, going under the screen means...well, it's almost always resulting in a mis-match.

If the ball handler gets in to the paint, and a guy comes over to protect it, his man is usually left wide open on the wing, and all you can do is pray he misses..Again there are a million options on the offense, but not on the defense.

It used to drive MDA crazy when Nate would go under the pick instead of fighting over! Now we've got a good group of guys who can move and recover very well. We should be solid against the PnR.

knicks1248 wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:If guys are running the pick and roll effectively it is tough to stop. Coaches understand this. They also know that if the players are forced to switch it can create awful mismatches. That being said, when you are a coach you design strategies that are meant to minimize the effectiveness of the pick and roll(or at least make the opponent work harder). You can hedge hard on the screens to keep a Chris Paul type from turning the corner. You can double the ball to force the ball handler to pass the ball to a player that is less effective creating. You can switch on every pick when you have versatile defenders(or if your team keeps getting beat on the screens). Switch when some players are involved and fight through on others. You can drop below the screen and force a poor shooter to shoot.

There are a million more complicated strategies as well. Coaches don't get upset if you design a strategy, the players follow and it doesn't work. In that situation it's your job to come up with a better strategy. The problem comes in when you ask guys to fight through screens and they consistently drop below and give up jump shot after jump shot. Or you ask a big man to hedge hard and they consistently give a soft hedge or drop off before the guard is able to recover. These are the problems that guys like Amare and Nate Robinson and Shaq have had throughout their careers. Other teams know it and use it to their advantage. This is when players get crucified.

IMO Going over the screen, deosn't exactly mean your fast enough to catch up to the ball handler, going under the screen means...well, it's almost always resulting in a mis-match.

If the ball handler gets in to the paint, and a guy comes over to protect it, his man is usually left wide open on the wing, and all you can do is pray he misses..Again there are a million options on the offense, but not on the defense.

If I tell my guy to go under a screen I'm telling them to do so for a reason. If I tell them to go over the screen I expect them to go over it. It's part of the team defensive concept. Once a guy doesn't do what the coach asks, or does it "lazily" he screws up the defense for everyone else.

Listen Stockton and Malone ran the pick and roll to perfection for years and no one could stop them. That's why coaching is so overrated. If you have two great players running the pick and roll to perfection there is not a lot you can do. But again, scouts and coaches know this and are okay with this as long as you hustle and get in the right spots you will be okay. If you half asse it like our team has done for 4 or 5 years, you will get killed by it.

BRIGGS wrote:

alphamale33 wrote:russell was a master at this.

his arms were so long, and his rep so beastly, he'd stay with the pg doubled, and then quickly run over and block the f"n SHYT out of a guy .

The difference between , say, Ben Wallace and Russell is only 1 thing..BRAINS.

No I would not lump Ben Wallace in as some kind of stupid player--quiet opposite he was a very good smart player for what he(actually great for 3-4 years) did and he has rings to prove it.

Yeah, I'm not quite sure how Ben Wallace got lumped into that. Ben is an extremely bright on the court player.

alphamale33 wrote:russell was a master at this.

his arms were so long, and his rep so beastly, he'd stay with the pg doubled, and then quickly run over and block the f"n SHYT out of a guy .

The difference between , say, Ben Wallace and Russell is only 1 thing..BRAINS.

this couldn't be further from the truth. is ben wallace a bad offensive player? yes. is he a horrible foul-shooter? yes. but the man is one of the brightest defensive minds i've seen play basketball. he knows exactly how to fill space and play angles. your statement is ridiculous.

Bippity10 wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

alphamale33 wrote:russell was a master at this.

his arms were so long, and his rep so beastly, he'd stay with the pg doubled, and then quickly run over and block the f"n SHYT out of a guy .

The difference between , say, Ben Wallace and Russell is only 1 thing..BRAINS.

this couldn't be further from the truth. is ben wallace a bad offensive player? yes. is he a horrible foul-shooter? yes. but the man is one of the brightest defensive minds i've seen play basketball. he knows exactly how to fill space and play angles. your statement is ridiculous.

The man had no talent with the ball to speak of. There are 10 year olds that have better skill then him. Yet the guy turned himself into one of the most valuable players in the league for a good spell. This was done through pure hustle and a very keen understanding of the game. I think alphamale was just looking to throw a name out there.

And then he stopped doing roids... [is it just me or does he seem like a likely culprit?]

Bippity10 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:If guys are running the pick and roll effectively it is tough to stop. Coaches understand this. They also know that if the players are forced to switch it can create awful mismatches. That being said, when you are a coach you design strategies that are meant to minimize the effectiveness of the pick and roll(or at least make the opponent work harder). You can hedge hard on the screens to keep a Chris Paul type from turning the corner. You can double the ball to force the ball handler to pass the ball to a player that is less effective creating. You can switch on every pick when you have versatile defenders(or if your team keeps getting beat on the screens). Switch when some players are involved and fight through on others. You can drop below the screen and force a poor shooter to shoot.

There are a million more complicated strategies as well. Coaches don't get upset if you design a strategy, the players follow and it doesn't work. In that situation it's your job to come up with a better strategy. The problem comes in when you ask guys to fight through screens and they consistently drop below and give up jump shot after jump shot. Or you ask a big man to hedge hard and they consistently give a soft hedge or drop off before the guard is able to recover. These are the problems that guys like Amare and Nate Robinson and Shaq have had throughout their careers. Other teams know it and use it to their advantage. This is when players get crucified.

IMO Going over the screen, deosn't exactly mean your fast enough to catch up to the ball handler, going under the screen means...well, it's almost always resulting in a mis-match.

If the ball handler gets in to the paint, and a guy comes over to protect it, his man is usually left wide open on the wing, and all you can do is pray he misses..Again there are a million options on the offense, but not on the defense.

If I tell my guy to go under a screen I'm telling them to do so for a reason. If I tell them to go over the screen I expect them to go over it. It's part of the team defensive concept. Once a guy doesn't do what the coach asks, or does it "lazily" he screws up the defense for everyone else.

Listen Stockton and Malone ran the pick and roll to perfection for years and no one could stop them. That's why coaching is so overrated. If you have two great players running the pick and roll to perfection there is not a lot you can do. But again, scouts and coaches know this and are okay with this as long as you hustle and get in the right spots you will be okay. If you half asse it like our team has done for 4 or 5 years, you will get killed by it.

Those two were the best of all time, but some credit goes to Jeff Hornacek too. His shooting earned enough attention from defenses.

Its such a simple play but very hard to stop effectively. Communication and team cohesion on the defensive end also go a long way in limiting the effectiveness of the pick and roll. Team defense is a big part of stopping it, rotating to the correct man, etc. I think its still the toughest play to stop though because it only takes one defender (ie. Nate Robinson or Marbury) to mess it all up.