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The Longterm Plan
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subzero0
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7/16/2010  12:55 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/16/2010  12:56 PM
Guys there really is no other way to say this. This Knicks roster is pathetic. We will be fortunate to just make the playoffs. The only good player on our team is Amare but he doesn't have any go to moves in his arsenal and he really does need a good point guard to play off of.

The situation right now is worse than before because now we will be stuck in mediocrity for about the next 5-10 years unless immediate moves are made to target the lottery for a championship level player. That was the whole reason I was against this stupid Knicks summer of 2010 plan from the beginning.

We need to target the lottery so we can have a chance at building a championship dynasty, not just a team that has one shot at winning a title but a team that can challenge for multiple titles over a period of years. Right now the Knicks need to trade whatever assets they have left for draft picks. I believe this is the best way forward.

AUTOADVERT
Paladin55
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7/16/2010  1:00 PM
This was written "tongue in cheek," right?
No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
AnubisADL
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7/16/2010  1:01 PM
I agree somewhat that this team is going nowhere unless Gallo AND Randolph have breakout seasons. I dont think we should be trading assets for draft picks right now. We see what we have for 2 years then we have to decide to pay Gallo and/or Randolph. We do need to try to move Amare ASAP. Guy is 3 years away from being albatross status.
NY Knicks - Retirement home for players and GMs
Paladin55
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7/16/2010  1:31 PM
AnubisADL wrote:I agree somewhat that this team is going nowhere unless Gallo AND Randolph have breakout seasons. I dont think we should be trading assets for draft picks right now. We see what we have for 2 years then we have to decide to pay Gallo and/or Randolph. We do need to try to move Amare ASAP. Guy is 3 years away from being albatross status.

He used the word "pathetic," by the way. I believe he has spent too much time in deep freeze.

You are not this foolish:

Right now the Knicks need to trade whatever assets they have left for draft picks. I believe this is the best way forward.

Strip our assets, wait for draft picks we don't have yet to grow into championship level players?

This thread is sheer madness.

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
EwingsGlass
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7/16/2010  1:33 PM
I disagree.
You know I gonna spin wit it
JrZyHuStLa
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7/16/2010  1:40 PM
Sign a perennial all star for 5 years/100 million, put some decent pieces around him, and aim for the lottery.

Awesome.

Solace
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7/16/2010  2:01 PM
With all due respect to Subzero, all I have to say is:

FINISH HIM!

Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
knicks1248
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7/16/2010  2:16 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/16/2010  2:17 PM
Lol..we got 5 1st rounders on our squad, more then half the team is under 25, WTF are you guys talking about... draft, we got guys that have GRADE A potential.

duhon....clueless
larry....cant shoot
gallo....solid
jj.......liability on offense
lee......can't defend.
nate.....headcase
chandler...not quite ready
TD......inconsistant

Not to mention the team had very little energy, no defense, and no heart, (sounds like the TIN MAN from the wiz)


I'm almost certain we will get melo, cause he wants to come for a # of reasons (unlike james), and his wife doesn't want to live in no denver or the suburbs of Md (even though it's nice as a MF out here), and she's a die hard NYKER. i'm not exactly married, but wifey holds a lot of weight, just look at where he got married at

I think we have a better chance of getting Parker in a S&T (especially since he's wife's also a die hard NYKer/knick fan) then we are getting CP3..But If felton turns out to be great I think walsh is going to go hard for melo before the trade dead line, and with a lock out approaching and the amount of FA's that just bolted there teams, why would denver wait.

ES
Vmart
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7/16/2010  3:07 PM
To much hinges on Gallo, Chandler and AR being productive. Gallo and Chandler are overly passive type players. They will never become stars in the league unless they increase the level of selfishness/agressiveness. All Superstars are selfish and aggressive and those are qualities that are missing from Gallo and chandlers game that is for sure. Now will they start to be more aggressive now that Al Harrington is gone. Lets see what unfolds because if these players don't play aggressive I highly doubt that Knicks come close to the playoff that everyone seems to be putting them in.
Finestrg
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7/16/2010  3:12 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/16/2010  11:01 PM
"Pathetic" roster? You're kidding me right? What are you talking about my dude? Break it down with me:

--Amar'e's one of the best bigs in the league---I expect somewhere in the vicinity of 22-25/9/1.5 as far as production goes. As long as he supplies that he's worth every penny not to mention he was signed with the intention of making us more attractive in the hopes of luring LeBron James. For that reason alone, I liked and agreed with the signing. Again money well spent..It didn't work out as this dude LeBron hitched his wagon to D Wade/Bosh..Nothing we can do about that now but move forward with Amar'e.. Better than Lee, better than Carlos Boozer, agruably better than Chris Bosh..An anchor right in his prime.

--Randolph's only 20-21 years old and ready for the next step--Lee overachieved beyond anyone's expectations here and was great for us but this kid's potential is through the damn roof..Over 6 years younger than Lee with as high a ceiling as any young player in the game. A guy that despite injuries & a weird relationship with Don Nelson has already proved he can excel at this level, albeit with inconsistent playing time..As good as Lee is, this kid was the jewel of that trade as far as I'm concerned. Averaged almost 12/6.5/1.6 in only 22 minutes last year. What does he do with 30-35 mins a game? I'm looking forward to him finally getting that opportunity so we can find out. Should be scary. Favorable contract too, still on his rookie deal. This kid along with Amar'e has the makings of a very powerful 1-2 combination up front..

--Azubukie's a starting 2 in the NBA when healthy. No doubt in my mind. Compares very favorably to Raja Bell..Right in his prime. I'm excited he was included in the deal. If for some reason he doesn't work out though, he comes right off the books.

--Turiaf's one of the better reserve bigs in the game. Favorable contract with this guy as well. Only something like 4M this year, 4.3M next year. Can definitely be moved in a trade if need be. A much better alternative over Jared Jeffries. Kinda reminds me of Adonal Foyle. Remember that guy? 6'10", wide, big body/space eater that could block a shot or 2--only Turiaf's better than Foyle imo, even more skilled, and he's right in his prime. Maybe something closer to Kendrick Perkins and we all know how important that guy is to the Celtics...I actually wanted this guy instead of Lee with that 30th pick a few years back. Obviously I would've been proven wrong as Lee blew up into an all-star but I still like & have a lot of respect for Turiaf.

--Raymond Felton may not be D-Will or CP3 but he's very skilled and right on his prime. Very favorable contract-3 yr deal, only the first 2 guaranteed from what I understand. Most talented PG we've had in NY since Marbury and I can't even remember before that (Derek Harper, Jackson/Rod Strickland??). HUGE upgrade over what we've been working with in recent years. And we got him on our terms--very good signing by Donnie w/o going overboard.

--Drafted a young shooter in Rautins. I didn't love the pick --in fact, I wouldn't mind seeing the Knicks opting to go with one of the better undrafted SL players out there instead-- but he could still wind up being a contributor..JJ Redick, Matt Carroll made it in the NBA which tells me this kid could as well.

--Landry Fields has been a very pleasant surprise. Might wind up being the steal of the draft. Dude's got rotation player written all over him. Solid pick--I give the team a lot of credit, they saw something in this kid that no one else out there did.

--Jerome Jordan obviously needs work and most likely goes immediately to Reno to start his development process but I like that they fact that they we were proactive in trying to address the lack-of-height issue. They spend 1M on a 7' with good upside. Good move. Worth the inventment..

--Timo Mozgov looks like a project. A little more expensive project when compared to Jerome Jordan but like a few of the other components they acquired, his contract is quite favorable so we'll see. Looks like there might be some nice potential here..

Now add to that the 4 capable returning players, Gallinari, Chandler, Toney Douglas & Billy Walker---4 solid contributors, all of which have considerable upside themselves and contracts that aren't terrible. Curry comes off the books at the end of the year and with a little finagling, the thought is that we'll have close to a max salary slot open for next year for Carmelo Anthony, CP3 perhaps or something else... The salary cap is in order moving forward, the players we got all compliment each other very well on paper, there's legit star power with Amar'e, potential all-star players in Randolph, Felton, Gallo and Chandler (esp. when you consider the type of up-tempo game Mike wants to play), quality/interchangable depth and a lot of youth on the roster which is always a good thing and a lot of talent that could very easily be moved in possible trades. Is it LeBron & Bosh or LeBron/Amar'e? Of course not and it's a little disappointing but after the dust settled, what we suddenly do have is a team that was put together very smartly very quick. I don't know about Subzero but to me, the outlook hasn't been this bright around here in a long time. I definitely feel like we're finally back on track here..Sub titled his thread 'the lonterm plan.' Certainly looks like the makings of a very good long-term plan to me. For once I feel like you can use the word 'stability' and the Knicks in the same sentence..

nyk4ever
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7/16/2010  3:17 PM
i thought this was a joke at first
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
bitty41
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7/16/2010  3:20 PM
Vmart wrote:To much hinges on Gallo, Chandler and AR being productive. Gallo and Chandler are overly passive type players. They will never become stars in the league unless they increase the level of selfishness/agressiveness. All Superstars are selfish and aggressive and those are qualities that are missing from Gallo and chandlers game that is for sure. Now will they start to be more aggressive now that Al Harrington is gone. Lets see what unfolds because if these players don't play aggressive I highly doubt that Knicks come close to the playoff that everyone seems to be putting them in.

I pretty much agree with your take but wanted to add one bit. Stoudamire's health because he's one bad knee injury from becoming another McDyess.

Vmart
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7/16/2010  3:31 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/16/2010  3:33 PM
bitty41 wrote:
Vmart wrote:To much hinges on Gallo, Chandler and AR being productive. Gallo and Chandler are overly passive type players. They will never become stars in the league unless they increase the level of selfishness/agressiveness. All Superstars are selfish and aggressive and those are qualities that are missing from Gallo and chandlers game that is for sure. Now will they start to be more aggressive now that Al Harrington is gone. Lets see what unfolds because if these players don't play aggressive I highly doubt that Knicks come close to the playoff that everyone seems to be putting them in.

I pretty much agree with your take but wanted to add one bit. Stoudamire's health because he's one bad knee injury from becoming another McDyess.

Amare's knee was 4 years ago. Since then he has produced big time numbers so I am not worried about knee injury. That is always a problem for all players as an injury can occur to anyone. What my concern with Amare is more that he is playing for the first time without Nash and that might be a big deal. As I think Felton is getting vastly overrated by the folks on the board, he basically has had one good year since his arrival poor shooter. For me the red flag is up on Felton as his best performance came on contract year. If CP3 was here already I wouldn't worry as much, as I know he would make Amare the same or better than playing with Nash. Paul also has the ability to elevate Chandler's and Gallo's game to a higher level. I hope I'm right but I feel as soon as the 60 day period has passed the Knicks need to send Felton, Curry, Azubuike and possibly AR for CP3. That deal would just about guarantee a playoff birth as a top 4 seed.

Nalod
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7/16/2010  3:32 PM

Seems that unless we get bonafide stars on the team some won't be happy.

AR just turned 21 this week. Gallo 22. Chandler is what, 23?

Amare is 27.

Mozgov is 38?

WE have players with decent contracts, good reps and can still bring in a max next summer.

Barley making the playoffs is not pathetic. Its progress.

Finestrg
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7/16/2010  3:34 PM
Nalod wrote:
Seems that unless we get bonafide stars on the team some won't be happy.

AR just turned 21 this week. Gallo 22. Chandler is what, 23?

Amare is 27.

Mozgov is 38?

WE have players with decent contracts, good reps and can still bring in a max next summer.

Barley making the playoffs is not pathetic. Its progress.

+1. I really think we're finally headed in the right direction..

sidsanders
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7/16/2010  3:36 PM
Nalod wrote:
Seems that unless we get bonafide stars on the team some won't be happy.

AR just turned 21 this week. Gallo 22. Chandler is what, 23?

Amare is 27.

Mozgov is 38?

WE have players with decent contracts, good reps and can still bring in a max next summer.

Barley making the playoffs is not pathetic. Its progress.

arent they needed at some point to win it all? i dont think we have a 200x pistons team currently.

GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!!
Nalod
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7/16/2010  4:00 PM
sidsanders wrote:
Nalod wrote:
Seems that unless we get bonafide stars on the team some won't be happy.

AR just turned 21 this week. Gallo 22. Chandler is what, 23?

Amare is 27.

Mozgov is 38?

WE have players with decent contracts, good reps and can still bring in a max next summer.

Barley making the playoffs is not pathetic. Its progress.

arent they needed at some point to win it all? i dont think we have a 200x pistons team currently.

That my friend takes time. YOu got to start somewhere. Be nice to go deep lotto and draft A durant. But sometimes you end up with Oden. It happens.

Start with a team of players instead of collection of talent with contracts teams don't want.

Its a process. If you want the Starphuch, thats your call. Just gotta understand we all can't do what Miami did. Boston did it by having assets to trade. Dlee became AR who has bigger upside and eventual cap space when Turiaf and The otherkid can come off the books.

Is there a way to get Melo? Yeah. Trade for Paul. NOt yet, but we have more pieces now. Thats if you want to go there.

Two weeks ago we had space for two max deals.

Most fans are happy. Not thrilled, but we not there yet.

newyorknewyork
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7/16/2010  4:04 PM
Raymond Felton #5 lottery pick
Danilo Gallinari #6 lottery pick
Amare Stoudemire #9 lottery pick
Anthoney Randolph #14 lottery pick

The lineup that you believe is pathetic has 4 lottery picks in it.

I think there are a lot of things in place for this team to be good next yr.

speedy playmaking PG, shooters to spread the floor, big man that commands double teams, size length, athletism.

Balance wins you games. I don't believe we are close to being contenders but good enough to win regular season games as long as we stay healthy.

look at the 76ers a few yrs back with Andre Miller, Iggy, Green, Williams, Dalembert, Young, Evans, Carney, Smith. They made the playoffs because of there balance.

https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
sidsanders
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7/16/2010  4:10 PM
Nalod wrote:
sidsanders wrote:
Nalod wrote:
Seems that unless we get bonafide stars on the team some won't be happy.

AR just turned 21 this week. Gallo 22. Chandler is what, 23?

Amare is 27.

Mozgov is 38?

WE have players with decent contracts, good reps and can still bring in a max next summer.

Barley making the playoffs is not pathetic. Its progress.

arent they needed at some point to win it all? i dont think we have a 200x pistons team currently.

That my friend takes time. YOu got to start somewhere. Be nice to go deep lotto and draft A durant. But sometimes you end up with Oden. It happens.

Start with a team of players instead of collection of talent with contracts teams don't want.

Its a process. If you want the Starphuch, thats your call. Just gotta understand we all can't do what Miami did. Boston did it by having assets to trade. Dlee became AR who has bigger upside and eventual cap space when Turiaf and The otherkid can come off the books.

Is there a way to get Melo? Yeah. Trade for Paul. NOt yet, but we have more pieces now. Thats if you want to go there.

Two weeks ago we had space for two max deals.

Most fans are happy. Not thrilled, but we not there yet.

u may be reading too much into my response. at some point they are gonna need "more" hence why folks may not be happy yet. im in a wait and see view... not buying its all good or bad. we shall see soon...

GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!!
GustavBahler
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7/16/2010  4:14 PM
The Knicks are younger, taller, more athletic, and they've added a better PG as well
as better defenders. I'm not predicting ECF but I do believe we have a legit shot at
the playoffs if D'antoni does his job and gets the most out of his players. Can't say
that has been the case so far but now he has a squad that is better suited to run his
offense. I'm cautiously optimistic.
The Longterm Plan

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