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The crying game: 10 Athletes Who Left Their Teams & Broke Their City's Hearts
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playa2
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7/13/2010  8:54 AM
http://www.thebvx.com/2010/07/12/the-crying-game-10-athletes-who-left-their-teams-and-broke-the/

Did these guys get called out like Lebron ?

I wonder if Lebron didn't do the 1 hour TV special would Lebron have received the same negative treatment ?

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
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playa2
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7/13/2010  9:15 AM
To prove it, we scrounged up a list of athletes who left their teams either through free agency or a trade and left a trail of tears behind. Grab a box of Kleenex, this isn't going to be pretty.

TOP 2
The Player: Wayne Gretzky

The Transaction: Traded from the Edmonton Oilers to the Los Angeles Kings in 1988.

The Reaction: Gretzky was already a king in Edmonton. So when the owner of the team faced financial troubles and traded him to the L.A. Kings for a slew of draft picks and a pile of money, hearts all over the city broke. People even called for the Canadian government to get involved and block the swap. To this day, it's still referred to as the biggest trade in the history of sports.

The Player: Brett Favre

The Transaction: Traded from the Green Bay Packers to the New York Jets in 2008.

The Reaction: Stop us if you've heard this one: Brett Favre retired and then came back and... O.K., O.K., so it's a little hard to keep track of all the times he's done it. But this trade happened after his first retirement. He wanted to rejoin the Packers but the team had moved on. So they agreed to trade him to the Jets instead, leaving many of the franchise's fans in shambles.

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
fishmike
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7/13/2010  9:16 AM
LOL... really?

Lets break this down:
scratch off Getzky, Farve. They won their franchises a championship. If Eli Manning said screw NY, the place is a dump and left to play elseswhere I wouldnt kill him. Nothing would take away that win against the Pats.

N/A:
Damon: He was a mercenary when he signed w/ the Red Sox. He wasnt their guy. He had already played for 2 teams before taking Boston $$$ and he won a title there and had the biggest hit probably in their franchise history in the last 90 years.
Iverson: left town on the downside of his career
Reggie White: Football is just different with the massive player movement. Plus he's not a QB
Deon Sanders: see Reggie White

Just not that important:
Boozer (scumbagged Cle) and Boggs. Good players but not franchise cornerstones. If the departure of these guys ruins your team you werent that good to start with

The ones that really hurt:
Kareem: before my time but ouch
Shaq: left Orl high and dry, won titles w/ Lakers


Lebron is easily the worst and biggest villian of this group. He's allowed to go play in Miami. Good for him. The prime time show where you publicly diss your home state? Wow. Gilbert was right in everything he said. Lebron should have met with Gilbert, said thanks and moved on. Gilbert would have had no choice to accept. You reap what you sow. Lebron deserves every bit of backlash he gets.

On a side note I like the move to Miami. I think its good for the sport. I also think that while they will win a ton of games it doesnt make them a favorite in the playoffs until they show up with a front line that can compete with what Bos, Orl, LAL put out there.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
waly01
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7/13/2010  9:27 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/13/2010  9:29 AM
Explain to me how this is good for the sport? I actually think this is glaringly bad for the sport. You want parity in your leagues(part of what makes the NFL so good). You want superstars and you want those superstars in sexy matchups. How many poeple wanted to see a Kobe/Lebron finals going into last year's playoffs? Now your taking two of the top 4 best players in the league and your putting them on the same team. Instead of Lebron going to Chicago or NY or staying in Clev and battling against Wade/Bosh in Miami he's now formed a superteam while destroying Clevlands competitiveness.

This is horrible for the NBA and if the only way to combat that Miami team is to get more players who start to team up and form their own Big 3 then I'm afraid of where things are going. You can already see that line of thinking taking shape with all these rumored comments by CP3 on forming his own "Big 3". Your going to have a league with a few super teams and a lot of very bad teams. Parity/Star power are what make these pro leagues successful. This dilutes the star power and destroys parity.

ps - im going to stop editing this post here as I just heard Steinbrenner had a massive heart attack:

By JoAnne Norton
July 13 (Bloomberg) -- George Steinbrenner, principal owner
of the New York Yankees, suffered a “massive” heart attack,
ABC News reported. Television station WABC said he was rushed
to a hospital.

NYKBocker
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7/13/2010  9:43 AM
fishmike wrote:LOL... really?

Lets break this down:
scratch off Getzky, Farve. They won their franchises a championship. If Eli Manning said screw NY, the place is a dump and left to play elseswhere I wouldnt kill him. Nothing would take away that win against the Pats.

N/A:
Damon: He was a mercenary when he signed w/ the Red Sox. He wasnt their guy. He had already played for 2 teams before taking Boston $$$ and he won a title there and had the biggest hit probably in their franchise history in the last 90 years.
Iverson: left town on the downside of his career
Reggie White: Football is just different with the massive player movement. Plus he's not a QB
Deon Sanders: see Reggie White

Just not that important:
Boozer (scumbagged Cle) and Boggs. Good players but not franchise cornerstones. If the departure of these guys ruins your team you werent that good to start with

The ones that really hurt:
Kareem: before my time but ouch
Shaq: left Orl high and dry, won titles w/ Lakers


Lebron is easily the worst and biggest villian of this group. He's allowed to go play in Miami. Good for him. The prime time show where you publicly diss your home state? Wow. Gilbert was right in everything he said. Lebron should have met with Gilbert, said thanks and moved on. Gilbert would have had no choice to accept. You reap what you sow. Lebron deserves every bit of backlash he gets.

On a side note I like the move to Miami. I think its good for the sport. I also think that while they will win a ton of games it doesnt make them a favorite in the playoffs until they show up with a front line that can compete with what Bos, Orl, LAL put out there.

Man, you are on a roll. I agree with everything you said here. To add.

Gretzky and Farve - Their respective teams actually got something in return.

Jabbar - You can add Kareem to Gretzky and Farve. The Bucks got a lot of talent back. They got the Lakers 2 first round picks which was #2 and #8 overall.

The only one that really comes close to Queen James was Shaq but Shaq never did this crap that the vagina ever did.

fishmike
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7/13/2010  9:49 AM
waly01 wrote:Explain to me how this is good for the sport? I actually think this is glaringly bad for the sport. You want parity in your leagues(part of what makes the NFL so good). You want superstars and you want those superstars in sexy matchups. How many poeple wanted to see a Kobe/Lebron finals going into last year's playoffs? Now your taking two of the top 4 best players in the league and your putting them on the same team. Instead of Lebron going to Chicago or NY or staying in Clev and battling against Wade/Bosh in Miami he's now formed a superteam while destroying Clevlands competitiveness.

This is horrible for the NBA and if the only way to combat that Miami team is to get more players who start to team up and form their own Big 3 then I'm afraid of where things are going. You can already see that line of thinking taking shape with all these rumored comments by CP3 on forming his own "Big 3". Your going to have a league with a few super teams and a lot of very bad teams. Parity/Star power are what make these pro leagues successful. This dilutes the star power and destroys parity.

ps - im going to stop editing this post here as I just heard Steinbrenner had a massive heart attack:

By JoAnne Norton
July 13 (Bloomberg) -- George Steinbrenner, principal owner
of the New York Yankees, suffered a “massive” heart attack,
ABC News reported. Television station WABC said he was rushed
to a hospital.

where the MJ Bulls bad for the NBA? They won every year!

You said how many people wanted to see a Kobe/Lebron finals? Didnt everyone? Isnt that more likely now?

Any why is parity good for the sport? People love juggernaut teams. They love to root for them and they love to root against them. They stir emotion and passion.

Look at the Yankees. Are they bad for baseball? For 7 years they were great for baseball. Only after winning last year did all the ESPN hacks come out and complain. Yanks lead the planet in road attendance. People come out to see this team. Either to scream for or scream at. Thats good for the team.

Every team will want to beat the Heat. Every team. People will tune into watch the Heat. Casual fans will follow that happens to that team.

Parity doesnt build passion or excitement or drama. Partiy doesnt work in the NFL either. People want to see elite teams play elite teams in the playoffs. I

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
tj23
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7/13/2010  9:59 AM
waly01 wrote:Explain to me how this is good for the sport? I actually think this is glaringly bad for the sport. You want parity in your leagues(part of what makes the NFL so good). You want superstars and you want those superstars in sexy matchups. How many poeple wanted to see a Kobe/Lebron finals going into last year's playoffs? Now your taking two of the top 4 best players in the league and your putting them on the same team. Instead of Lebron going to Chicago or NY or staying in Clev and battling against Wade/Bosh in Miami he's now formed a superteam while destroying Clevlands competitiveness.

This is horrible for the NBA and if the only way to combat that Miami team is to get more players who start to team up and form their own Big 3 then I'm afraid of where things are going. You can already see that line of thinking taking shape with all these rumored comments by CP3 on forming his own "Big 3". Your going to have a league with a few super teams and a lot of very bad teams. Parity/Star power are what make these pro leagues successful. This dilutes the star power and destroys parity.

ps - im going to stop editing this post here as I just heard Steinbrenner had a massive heart attack:

By JoAnne Norton
July 13 (Bloomberg) -- George Steinbrenner, principal owner
of the New York Yankees, suffered a “massive” heart attack,
ABC News reported. Television station WABC said he was rushed
to a hospital.


Exactly. That's what I've been saying. Ok, so Cle and Tor might have gotten screwed but not only them the whole league is getting f***** by this move. Stern should have stepped in and prevented this. No idea how but this is ridiculous.
fishmike
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7/13/2010  10:08 AM
tj23 wrote:
waly01 wrote:Explain to me how this is good for the sport? I actually think this is glaringly bad for the sport. You want parity in your leagues(part of what makes the NFL so good). You want superstars and you want those superstars in sexy matchups. How many poeple wanted to see a Kobe/Lebron finals going into last year's playoffs? Now your taking two of the top 4 best players in the league and your putting them on the same team. Instead of Lebron going to Chicago or NY or staying in Clev and battling against Wade/Bosh in Miami he's now formed a superteam while destroying Clevlands competitiveness.

This is horrible for the NBA and if the only way to combat that Miami team is to get more players who start to team up and form their own Big 3 then I'm afraid of where things are going. You can already see that line of thinking taking shape with all these rumored comments by CP3 on forming his own "Big 3". Your going to have a league with a few super teams and a lot of very bad teams. Parity/Star power are what make these pro leagues successful. This dilutes the star power and destroys parity.

ps - im going to stop editing this post here as I just heard Steinbrenner had a massive heart attack:

By JoAnne Norton
July 13 (Bloomberg) -- George Steinbrenner, principal owner
of the New York Yankees, suffered a “massive” heart attack,
ABC News reported. Television station WABC said he was rushed
to a hospital.


Exactly. That's what I've been saying. Ok, so Cle and Tor might have gotten screwed but not only them the whole league is getting f***** by this move. Stern should have stepped in and prevented this. No idea how but this is ridiculous.

how is the whole league phucked? I dont get it.

Listen to you. Your pissed off. Are you going to stop watching? Or you going to tune in and follow more because you want to see what happens?

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
waly01
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7/13/2010  10:22 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/13/2010  10:25 AM
Parity is what makes sports great. There is nothing better than two evenly matched teams battling each other until the end. It's why the NFL is great and it's why people love the NCAA tourney so much. Anything can happen at any time. I'm not saying the NBA has lost this because nothing is a given but if you think that the Heat aren't easily on of the best teams ever assembled in NBA history, your kidding yourself. Yea sure, now it's a lot more likley to see Kobe/Lebron in the finals but I wanted to see them 1-1 and I would've loved to see Lebron have to battle the 2nd best player in the league in Miami to get there intead of laying waste to the Eastern conference and showing up as a 2-1 favorite against LA in the finals.

Initially, people will definately tune into to watch this Miami team, and I'm no different, but it's more out of curiousity and intrigue in how they're going to look and live up to the hype. Let's assume they live up to the hype and dominate and every year doesn't become who can win the whole thing this year, instead it's can anyone slow down the heat. The ratings will suffer. The casual fan doesn't tune in to root against teams. Rest assured, Stern will be trying his absolute hardest to ensure this sort of thing never happens again in the new CBA.

As for the Yankees - I'm a diehard fan but they are horrible for the sport. Baseball has to constantly come up with ways to even out their competitive advantage...had they gotten Cliff Lee last week that would just not be fair to the rest of baseball (even though they would've traded for him..they would have just been far to dominant). Yea, sure..people will hate them and root against them but I garuntee you that more poeple watched when the Yanks and Red Sox were evenly matched and you had no idea who was going to win.

The central theme here is parity is great for sports and this move severely tipped the scales in the NBA

arkrud
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7/13/2010  10:26 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/13/2010  10:27 AM
fishmike wrote:
waly01 wrote:Explain to me how this is good for the sport? I actually think this is glaringly bad for the sport. You want parity in your leagues(part of what makes the NFL so good). You want superstars and you want those superstars in sexy matchups. How many poeple wanted to see a Kobe/Lebron finals going into last year's playoffs? Now your taking two of the top 4 best players in the league and your putting them on the same team. Instead of Lebron going to Chicago or NY or staying in Clev and battling against Wade/Bosh in Miami he's now formed a superteam while destroying Clevlands competitiveness.

This is horrible for the NBA and if the only way to combat that Miami team is to get more players who start to team up and form their own Big 3 then I'm afraid of where things are going. You can already see that line of thinking taking shape with all these rumored comments by CP3 on forming his own "Big 3". Your going to have a league with a few super teams and a lot of very bad teams. Parity/Star power are what make these pro leagues successful. This dilutes the star power and destroys parity.

ps - im going to stop editing this post here as I just heard Steinbrenner had a massive heart attack:

By JoAnne Norton
July 13 (Bloomberg) -- George Steinbrenner, principal owner
of the New York Yankees, suffered a “massive” heart attack,
ABC News reported. Television station WABC said he was rushed
to a hospital.

where the MJ Bulls bad for the NBA? They won every year!

You said how many people wanted to see a Kobe/Lebron finals? Didnt everyone? Isnt that more likely now?

Any why is parity good for the sport? People love juggernaut teams. They love to root for them and they love to root against them. They stir emotion and passion.

Look at the Yankees. Are they bad for baseball? For 7 years they were great for baseball. Only after winning last year did all the ESPN hacks come out and complain. Yanks lead the planet in road attendance. People come out to see this team. Either to scream for or scream at. Thats good for the team.

Every team will want to beat the Heat. Every team. People will tune into watch the Heat. Casual fans will follow that happens to that team.

Parity doesnt build passion or excitement or drama. Partiy doesnt work in the NFL either. People want to see elite teams play elite teams in the playoffs. I

NBA is too big. They need to consolidate and get read of 2-4 teams dumping them down to d-league. And make d-league relevant by rotating the worst NBA performers with best d-league performers to motivate competition across both leagues and stop tanking.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
waly01
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7/13/2010  10:37 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/13/2010  10:39 AM
fishmike wrote:
waly01 wrote:Explain to me how this is good for the sport? I actually think this is glaringly bad for the sport. You want parity in your leagues(part of what makes the NFL so good). You want superstars and you want those superstars in sexy matchups. How many poeple wanted to see a Kobe/Lebron finals going into last year's playoffs? Now your taking two of the top 4 best players in the league and your putting them on the same team. Instead of Lebron going to Chicago or NY or staying in Clev and battling against Wade/Bosh in Miami he's now formed a superteam while destroying Clevlands competitiveness.

This is horrible for the NBA and if the only way to combat that Miami team is to get more players who start to team up and form their own Big 3 then I'm afraid of where things are going. You can already see that line of thinking taking shape with all these rumored comments by CP3 on forming his own "Big 3". Your going to have a league with a few super teams and a lot of very bad teams. Parity/Star power are what make these pro leagues successful. This dilutes the star power and destroys parity.

ps - im going to stop editing this post here as I just heard Steinbrenner had a massive heart attack:

By JoAnne Norton
July 13 (Bloomberg) -- George Steinbrenner, principal owner
of the New York Yankees, suffered a “massive” heart attack,
ABC News reported. Television station WABC said he was rushed
to a hospital.

where the MJ Bulls bad for the NBA? They won every year!

You said how many people wanted to see a Kobe/Lebron finals? Didnt everyone? Isnt that more likely now?

Any why is parity good for the sport? People love juggernaut teams. They love to root for them and they love to root against them. They stir emotion and passion.

Look at the Yankees. Are they bad for baseball? For 7 years they were great for baseball. Only after winning last year did all the ESPN hacks come out and complain. Yanks lead the planet in road attendance. People come out to see this team. Either to scream for or scream at. Thats good for the team.

Every team will want to beat the Heat. Every team. People will tune into watch the Heat. Casual fans will follow that happens to that team.

Parity doesnt build passion or excitement or drama. Partiy doesnt work in the NFL either. People want to see elite teams play elite teams in the playoffs. I

I think we're differing in our expectations of this Heat team. Yea sure, everyone likes to watch the elite teams battle. Who doesn't want to see Saints/Colts in the NFL. What I'm saying is that this isn't two elite teams battling. I think the Heat are going to be far and away the best team in the league - the the point where other teams may be given a chance to win but no one will really expect anyone to actually beat them. Your talking three of the top 10 best players in the league and arguably two of the top three. AND they singed Miller/Haslem.

Let's take a trip back to the time of the original dream team and look at an extreme example of this...let's say all those players who went to play for the original Dream Team in the olympics came back and they all just decided they were going to remain on this Dream Team and become official franchise and their former teams were just out of luck and just for ****s and giggles, the league allowed it. Now, Everyone would go watch them when they were on the road, any team who lost a player to them would be rooting for them to fail but your telling me that a team like that would be good for the league? No one wants to see a super team just beat up on a bunch of inferior teams. You'd be begging for the day when a team could finally rise up and challenge them....why? Cuz you like watching closely matched elite teams battle - otherwise referred to as parity.

fishmike
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7/13/2010  10:55 AM
wally I couldnt disagree more.

Parity sucks (spoke like a true Yankee fan). I have zero interest in it. The NFL may have parity from one year to another because of the cap and player movement but once the season starts its not a league of parity, and while there are always suprises from one year to another there are also elite teams. When was the last time the Colts missed the playoffs? Or the Pats?

If anything can happen in the NCAA than why has a 16 NEVER beaten a #1? What makes that tourney great is when its gets to the sweet 16 and elite 8 and you have college teams loaded to the gills with talent. Thats not parity, thats watching the best play the best.

Elite teams are good sports. Always have been. Did the NBA suffer when Jordan's Bulls won 6 straight years he was there? It was great watching all the 2nd tier teams trying to build a squad to knock that team off. To bad Hakeem's 2nd title team w/ Drexler didnt face Jordan's Bulls.

Also its funny how a team with 4 guys on it and nobody taller than 6'8 is being handed the next 5 titles. I'm sorry, I'm not impressed yet. They are going to need more than warm bodies to get past Orl, Bos and LaL to name a few.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
waly01
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7/13/2010  11:20 AM
fishmike wrote:wally I couldnt disagree more.

Parity sucks (spoke like a true Yankee fan). I have zero interest in it. The NFL may have parity from one year to another because of the cap and player movement but once the season starts its not a league of parity, and while there are always suprises from one year to another there are also elite teams. When was the last time the Colts missed the playoffs? Or the Pats?

If anything can happen in the NCAA than why has a 16 NEVER beaten a #1? What makes that tourney great is when its gets to the sweet 16 and elite 8 and you have college teams loaded to the gills with talent. Thats not parity, thats watching the best play the best.

Elite teams are good sports. Always have been. Did the NBA suffer when Jordan's Bulls won 6 straight years he was there? It was great watching all the 2nd tier teams trying to build a squad to knock that team off. To bad Hakeem's 2nd title team w/ Drexler didnt face Jordan's Bulls.

Also its funny how a team with 4 guys on it and nobody taller than 6'8 is being handed the next 5 titles. I'm sorry, I'm not impressed yet. They are going to need more than warm bodies to get past Orl, Bos and LaL to name a few.

Yea but that's parity amongst the elite. I think you have a misconception of what I mean when I say parity. You can have parity among elite teams - Parity doesn't mean a lot of average teams; you can a lot of very good evenly matched teams. Jordan's bulls were amongst the best teams ever but the knicks/heat/pacers always played them tough and how many game 7's and hard fought games did they play. The last title was one in the last 10 seconds in a game 6. The Pats just missed the playoffs in '08 and as good as Peyton is, he's only gotten 1 ring.

The other thing we differ on his how good the Heat are. I think they're going to be on another level entirely than the rest of the league. I honestly think you can park me in a wheel chair in the corner and they'd still walk to 3 of the next 5 rings at worst. Again, it's not 4 guys - it's 3 of the top 10 in the league, 2 of the top 3 in the league and 3 of 5 starting guys on the Gold medal Olympic team.

TMS
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7/13/2010  11:22 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/13/2010  11:26 AM
playa2 wrote:To prove it, we scrounged up a list of athletes who left their teams either through free agency or a trade and left a trail of tears behind. Grab a box of Kleenex, this isn't going to be pretty.

TOP 2
The Player: Wayne Gretzky

The Transaction: Traded from the Edmonton Oilers to the Los Angeles Kings in 1988.

The Reaction: Gretzky was already a king in Edmonton. So when the owner of the team faced financial troubles and traded him to the L.A. Kings for a slew of draft picks and a pile of money, hearts all over the city broke. People even called for the Canadian government to get involved and block the swap. To this day, it's still referred to as the biggest trade in the history of sports.

The Player: Brett Favre

The Transaction: Traded from the Green Bay Packers to the New York Jets in 2008.

The Reaction: Stop us if you've heard this one: Brett Favre retired and then came back and... O.K., O.K., so it's a little hard to keep track of all the times he's done it. But this trade happened after his first retirement. He wanted to rejoin the Packers but the team had moved on. So they agreed to trade him to the Jets instead, leaving many of the franchise's fans in shambles.

Brett Favre has been widely lambasted by the media & the fans for his diva act for the past several years... bad example to state your point.

Allen Iverson gave all of his best years to the Sixers franchise & only asked to be traded when he was approaching the end of his career... same thing with Wade Boggs, he left Boston after giving his best years to them... Lebron is leaving his team in the lurch just when he's hitting his peak... completely different scenarios... & neither Iverson or Boggs ever built up the hype to leaving their respective teams for 2 full seasons & notify his fanbase with an hour long special on ESPN either.

Johnny Damon is hated in Boston for signing with the Yankees, get it straight... if he had signed with the Royals or went back to the A's, there would have been no uproar... plus he'd already helped the Red Sox accomplish their goal of winning their first championship in 87 years before he left... he didn't want to leave Boston btw... another completely different scenario, so i fail to see what the point is in bringing up his example... & he was never considered close to being the best player in the game the way Lebron is in hoops.

Carlos Boozer? really? since when has he ever broken Cleveland fans' hearts by leaving? he was a good player, but an icon like Lebron? not even remotely close.

Shaq leaving Orlando is the closest example you can point to, but even he didn't engage in the self indulgent promotional tour that Lebron went on for the past 2 years leading up to it, all the while stringing along several other teams getting them to dump their entire rosters just for a glimmer of a chance to land him so he could prove how powerful & desirable of a player he was to everyone to witness.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
fishmike
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7/13/2010  11:33 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/13/2010  11:37 AM
waly01 wrote:
fishmike wrote:wally I couldnt disagree more.

Parity sucks (spoke like a true Yankee fan). I have zero interest in it. The NFL may have parity from one year to another because of the cap and player movement but once the season starts its not a league of parity, and while there are always suprises from one year to another there are also elite teams. When was the last time the Colts missed the playoffs? Or the Pats?

If anything can happen in the NCAA than why has a 16 NEVER beaten a #1? What makes that tourney great is when its gets to the sweet 16 and elite 8 and you have college teams loaded to the gills with talent. Thats not parity, thats watching the best play the best.

Elite teams are good sports. Always have been. Did the NBA suffer when Jordan's Bulls won 6 straight years he was there? It was great watching all the 2nd tier teams trying to build a squad to knock that team off. To bad Hakeem's 2nd title team w/ Drexler didnt face Jordan's Bulls.

Also its funny how a team with 4 guys on it and nobody taller than 6'8 is being handed the next 5 titles. I'm sorry, I'm not impressed yet. They are going to need more than warm bodies to get past Orl, Bos and LaL to name a few.

Yea but that's parity amongst the elite. I think you have a misconception of what I mean when I say parity. You can have parity among elite teams - Parity doesn't mean a lot of average teams; you can a lot of very good evenly matched teams. Jordan's bulls were amongst the best teams ever but the knicks/heat/pacers always played them tough and how many game 7's and hard fought games did they play. The last title was one in the last 10 seconds in a game 6. The Pats just missed the playoffs in '08 and as good as Peyton is, he's only gotten 1 ring.

The other thing we differ on his how good the Heat are. I think they're going to be on another level entirely than the rest of the league. I honestly think you can park me in a wheel chair in the corner and they'd still walk to 3 of the next 5 rings at worst. Again, it's not 4 guys - it's 3 of the top 10 in the league, 2 of the top 3 in the league and 3 of 5 starting guys on the Gold medal Olympic team.

how do you figure the Heat are winning the 3 of the next 5?

Lets say this is their starting line up this year:
PG Wade
SG Mike Miller
SF Lebron
PF Haslem
C Bosh
bench: Chalmers, whoever else.

That team really matches up well against the Celtics? Magic? Lakers?

If the Heat had a real bigman... like at least a guy as good as Brandon Haywood you might have something. They still have to build a championship team. Bosh is very skilled but his defense isnt much better than Lee (I proved this already) and he breaks down 50 games into every season.

Sorry, I dont believe in paper champs. Lakers had the best finisher in the game and the best bigman in the league. Both were elite defensive players as well, and they still got picked off 50% of the time.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
waly01
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7/13/2010  12:43 PM
Let me ask you this? How are those teams going to match up against the Heat?

They may be weak inside but there is no way they don't more than make up for it Lebron/Wade. The bulls won it with Luc Longley and Bill Wennington playing insdide.

No one has an answer for Bron/Wade - and in LA...Kobe doesn't play anyone on defense so he can save his energy for offense (why he kinda just floated around on rondo instead and having fisher guard Ray Allen) Now he's going to HAVE to gaurd either Wade or Lebron. You have 3 guys who legit draw double teams - they're going to be a nightmare matchup for any team. 3/5 at worst

playa2
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7/13/2010  12:46 PM
The way I see is too many owners aren't trying to field teams to challenge for a championship.
This is why free agency is needed in all leagues.

How many cities have owners that never push the envelope to get the talent and manage their teams professionally to position themselves to compete for a title for their city ?

Athletes want to win championships, but does every owner of professional sports feel the same way ?

Players have put that fate in their hands now,by taking that power away from owners who won't put together teams to challenge the teams who are perennial champs and always competing in the finals.

Look at the last 10 yrs at the teams that have played in the finals(SANANTONIO-LA-BOSTON- MIAMI. Fans deserve better, now we should see owners and players get on the same page. Players and Owners are all gonna make money ( owners hopefully) but winning a championship increases revenue for both.

I welcome the stars demanding the owners to draft well and use free agency to win a championship for the fans that spends all the money for their respective franchises.

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
Andrew
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7/13/2010  12:53 PM
playa2 wrote:Athletes want to win championships, but does every owner of professional sports feel the same way ?

You can't make a blanket statement like that. All owners probably want to win a chip, just as all athletes do. All owners don't do the things necessary to accomplish it, just like all athletes are content to receive their check.

The difference between the 2 is at the end of the day an athlete is guaranteed a paycheck win or lose. Owners can end up losing money if they don't win. Do you think athletes would agree to work based on their win loss totals?

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fishmike
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7/13/2010  1:05 PM
waly01 wrote:Let me ask you this? How are those teams going to match up against the Heat?

They may be weak inside but there is no way they don't more than make up for it Lebron/Wade. The bulls won it with Luc Longley and Bill Wennington playing insdide.

No one has an answer for Bron/Wade - and in LA...Kobe doesn't play anyone on defense so he can save his energy for offense (why he kinda just floated around on rondo instead and having fisher guard Ray Allen) Now he's going to HAVE to gaurd either Wade or Lebron. You have 3 guys who legit draw double teams - they're going to be a nightmare matchup for any team. 3/5 at worst

how do I match up with them? Size and length. Pack the middle, make them beat you with jumpers and clean the glass. Also attack them on offense. Lebron and Wade are not elite defenders like Kobe is or MJ was.

MJ's Bulls had Horace Grant and Cartwright for the first 3 titles. They were a solid 6'10/7'0 combo who cleaned the glass and played great defense.

MJ's 2nd round of titles he had Dennis Rodman along w/ a heathly group of 7 footers in Wenngington, Longly, and Perdue. Rodman might be the best defensive/rebounding role player of all time. Guy average 15/16/15 rpg in those 3 years and might be the best offensive rebounder ever.

Keep Lebron/Wade out of the paint, commit hard fouls and beat them on the glass.

Until they put a more imposing frontline out there they dont have a clear advantage over the other elite players.

Look at the finals and the playoffs. Lebron fizzled against the Celtics. Kobe didnt do much against the Celtics either (shot 33%?). Lakers won at the FT line and on the glass.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
waly01
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7/13/2010  1:14 PM
fishmike wrote:
waly01 wrote:Let me ask you this? How are those teams going to match up against the Heat?

They may be weak inside but there is no way they don't more than make up for it Lebron/Wade. The bulls won it with Luc Longley and Bill Wennington playing insdide.

No one has an answer for Bron/Wade - and in LA...Kobe doesn't play anyone on defense so he can save his energy for offense (why he kinda just floated around on rondo instead and having fisher guard Ray Allen) Now he's going to HAVE to gaurd either Wade or Lebron. You have 3 guys who legit draw double teams - they're going to be a nightmare matchup for any team. 3/5 at worst

how do I match up with them? Size and length. Pack the middle, make them beat you with jumpers and clean the glass. Also attack them on offense. Lebron and Wade are not elite defenders like Kobe is or MJ was.

MJ's Bulls had Horace Grant and Cartwright for the first 3 titles. They were a solid 6'10/7'0 combo who cleaned the glass and played great defense.

MJ's 2nd round of titles he had Dennis Rodman along w/ a heathly group of 7 footers in Wenngington, Longly, and Perdue. Rodman might be the best defensive/rebounding role player of all time. Guy average 15/16/15 rpg in those 3 years and might be the best offensive rebounder ever.

Keep Lebron/Wade out of the paint, commit hard fouls and beat them on the glass.

Until they put a more imposing frontline out there they dont have a clear advantage over the other elite players.

Look at the finals and the playoffs. Lebron fizzled against the Celtics. Kobe didnt do much against the Celtics either (shot 33%?). Lakers won at the FT line and on the glass.

I won't drag this out as this is just a matter of seeing what happens but I will point out that it's easier said than done. No one in the world can keep those guys out of the lane.

The crying game: 10 Athletes Who Left Their Teams & Broke Their City's Hearts

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