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Knicks' clutter of possibilities [article]
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gr33d
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7/4/2010  10:28 AM
By Chris Sheridan

The latest word from Ric Bucher is that LeBron James could take until Tuesday or later to decide where he's going to play.

That is going to have implications for David Lee and the Knicks.

Fresh off his Saturday visit to visit the Minnesota Timberwolves, who do not have the cap space to sign Lee but could get it by trading Al Jefferson, Ramon Sessions and/or Ryan Hollins, Lee could meet with the New Jersey Nets in the near future. (Lee's agent, Mark Bartelstein, has said there likely will be a meeting, but Nets president Rod Thorn said Sunday nothing has been scheduled.)

Lee has now met with Chicago, Miami and Minnesota, but he has been proceeding forward with the understanding that the Toronto Raptors could be his ultimate destination if Chris Bosh decides to go to New York. The Raptors are amenable to such a deal, and the salaries would not have to match because Toronto would be trading Bosh into open cap space. If they got Lee at an $11 million starting salary, the Raptors would also gain a $5.5 million trade exception, and Bosh would get a sixth year on his deal and 10.5 percent annual raises, increasing the value of his contract by $30 million.

The key to everything is James, of course, and the Knicks have told James he can bring along whichever big man he chooses, be it Amare Stoudemire, Bosh, Lee or Carlos Boozer. And remember, aside from Miami, New York is currently the only team with enough cap space to sign two max free agents outright without having to do a sign-and-trade, and they'd still have at least $1 million leftover (the exact amount won't be known until the salary cap is set July 7) to fill out the roster after spending the $33.14 million it'll take to sign two max guys. (It cannot go unmentioned that another huge factor is whether Dwyane Wade commits to the Bulls - a real possibility when you factor in his desire to be close to his children if a judge awards shared parental custody in Wade's divorce case).

Another key is Bosh, and who he wants to play with -- James or Wade, as outlined in great detail in this TrueHoop post by colleague Chad Ford.

As Chad notes, the Raptors have little interest in taking on Michael Beasley or Luol Deng in a sign-and-trade with Miami or Chicago. That complicates things for the Bulls if they get a commitment from Wade, since they are about $4 million shy of having enough cap space to sign a second max player, and it complicates things for the Heat if they lose Wade because they'd have difficulty working out a sign-and-trade with the Raptors, meaning if Bosh wanted to sign in Miami to play alongside James, he might have to take $30 million less than what the Knicks could pay him.

The Knicks are tentatively scheduled to meet Monday with Stoudemire, who reportedly has a $100 million "offer" on the table from the Knicks. My understanding of the situation, through conversations with league sources, is that New York has told Stoudemire it is "willing" to give him a five-year max, but everything is contingent upon what James decides. And if James tells the Knicks he's coming to New York and he wants Bosh to come with him, Stoudemire (who is already recruiting Carmelo Anthony and Tony Parker) will have to seek employment elsewhere -- a contingency he is planning for, Sam Amick of AOL Fanhouse reports, with visits to New Jersey and Chicago slated for Tuesday and Wednesday.

But again, the one key to the Knicks possibly getting Bosh, and Bosh getting his extra $30 million, is the continued free agency of Lee.

As outlined in this recent blog post, and in this earlier post, the timing of Lee's decision is crucial. And if Mickael Prokhorov and the Nets, or some other team, makes Lee an offer he can't refuse while LeBron is stalling, the Knicks could lose a key cog in their overall overhaul strategy.

They would still have the fallback of Stoudemire, who James wanted the Cavs to acquire at the trade deadline last February, and perhaps Joe Johnson, who has still not committed to the Hawks' $119 million, six-year offer, or Mike Miller, who has the Knicks at the top of his wish list, according to Frank Isola of the Daily News.

Again, it all circles back to where James wants to play, and which max player he wants to play alongside. But here's another morsel of food for thought: I spoke to Lee during the past season about his relationship with LeBron, and he described it as quite friendly.

What if James committed to the Knicks and told then he wanted to play alongside Lee?

That, for Knicks fans, might be the best-case scenario of them all.

Assuming Lee would merit a starting salary of $11 million in a six-year deal (which might be an undervaluation in this free agent market), that would leave the Knicks with roughly $6-7 million in remaining cap space. That's probably enough to get both point guard Luke Ridnour, one of the two best unrestricted free agent point guards on the market, and center Earl Barron, who played well for the Knicks in the final seven games of the regular season.

This would be their 12-man roster, with one additional spot needing to be filled by a player on a minimum salary (perhaps Patrick Ewing Jr., who is on the Knicks' summer league roster) to reach the league minimum of 13:

Forwards: James, Lee, Danilo Gallinari, Bill Walker, Landry Fields.

Guards: Ridnour, Toney Douglas, Wilson Chandler, Andy Rautins.

Centers: Eddy Curry, Barron, Jerome Jordan.

On a related note, yesterday's blog post about how I believe the Knicks are still in the LBJ hunt generated quite a few comments, some more eloquent than others. (Memo to those accusing me of being a homer: I am approaching this whole LeBron James story more in the manner that this guy would.)

One comment was posted at 12:11 a.m. this morning from a P.Ewing. It reads:

"Here's how I see it: Let's just assume the Clips and Nets are out of this thing cause ...well... they're the Clips and the Nets. And let's assume the Cavs are the frontrunners for the obvious reasons (he can get the most money, he's loyal to his hometown, they won 60-plus games 2 years in a row, etc.) that leaves the Knicks, Heat, and Bulls as the teams with an outside chance of landing LeBron. Were's what NY has going for it over MIA and CHI: If Amare is on board, he's currently the best big man on any of the 3 rosters. And even if the other teams pick up Bosh, you could still argue that Amare is every bit as dominant (see 2nd half of last season). I don't why people talk about Gallo as if he's just a 3-point guy. But he's definitely more Dirk than Frye. And he's 21, competitive and improving. Noah is OK but he's as good now as he will be in 3 years. As for the pg, Rose is great... and a waste of talent and cap space if teamed up with LeBron. There's a reason LBJ, Kobe, and MJ have never played with a top pg.... they don't need one. The offense will always flow through their hands. Douglas is more than capable of bringing the ball up, hitting the open shot, and playing solid d. Chandler is talented, as is Walker, and should have big years with a dominant player to free them up a bit. Lastly, you can't kill D'Antoni unless you want to kill mgmt for putting them in the running for James."

So I am not alone in my theory, and for those commenters accusing ESPN of having an anti-Knicks bias, I am not the only ESPN guy who believes LeBron will choose New York.

Columnist Ian O'Connor of ESPNNew York agrees, and so does 1050 ESPN afternoon radio host and voice of the New York Yankees, Michael Kay. A majority of the national guys on the ESPN.com NBA page think he is going to the Bulls, and Marc Stein believes he is staying with the Cavs, as does frequent ESPN contributor Brian Windhorst of the Cleveland Plain-Dealer. Everyone is entitled to his own opinion.

But Tom Penn, the former Portland assistant general manager and current ESPN on-camera capologist, believes the Knicks are the team that makes the most sense as James' best landing spot.

"My gut tells me that New York is the place for LeBron. I've felt that since last summer when it became clear he wasn't going to do a contract extension," Penn told me on the phone this morning. "LeBron is a dynamic guy, a guy who wants to do more than just play basketball, and he's so talented and has so many other interests. And in the next decade, he can achieve success in all those areas if he plays in New York. If you want to be king, you want to be in the castle, the Mecca of Basketball."

"If you ain't first, you're last" - Ricky Bobby
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BRIGGS
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7/4/2010  10:34 AM
What if James committed to the Knicks and told then he wanted to play alongside Lee?

That, for Knicks fans, might be the best-case scenario of them all.

Assuming Lee would merit a starting salary of $11 million in a six-year deal (which might be an undervaluation in this free agent market), that would leave the Knicks with roughly $6-7 million in remaining cap space. That's probably enough to get both point guard Luke Ridnour, one of the two best unrestricted free agent point guards on the market, and center Earl Barron, who played well for the Knicks in the final seven games of the regular season.


My exact sentiment to the bone. That's why I did not like the Jordan Hill trade --with 24 mm in cap space--we were very close to having the correct amount to add a full max player 16.6 and then just making one move to clear up enough for Lee to get his 70mm. If we added Whiteside along with Jordan--still had Jordan Hill--well our TEAM as a whole all of a sudden look a lot more darn attractive.

RIP Crushalot😞
VDesai
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7/4/2010  10:47 AM
Sheridan is certainly doing a good job of keeping the optimism of Knicks fans alive, but I tend to agree with a lot of what he's saying.
martin
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7/4/2010  11:17 AM
BRIGGS wrote:What if James committed to the Knicks and told then he wanted to play alongside Lee?

That, for Knicks fans, might be the best-case scenario of them all.

Assuming Lee would merit a starting salary of $11 million in a six-year deal (which might be an undervaluation in this free agent market), that would leave the Knicks with roughly $6-7 million in remaining cap space. That's probably enough to get both point guard Luke Ridnour, one of the two best unrestricted free agent point guards on the market, and center Earl Barron, who played well for the Knicks in the final seven games of the regular season.


My exact sentiment to the bone. That's why I did not like the Jordan Hill trade --with 24 mm in cap space--we were very close to having the correct amount to add a full max player 16.6 and then just making one move to clear up enough for Lee to get his 70mm. If we added Whiteside along with Jordan--still had Jordan Hill--well our TEAM as a whole all of a sudden look a lot more darn attractive.

here is the thing with that kind of move though: You box yourselves in; you assume that LeBron or Wade would be happy playing alongside Lee and that has just not been the case. There is no Wade and Lee rumors anywhere or any LeBron and Lee rumors anywhere. Not a hint of that sentiment at all in fact.

Each of LeBron and Wade, as far as we can tell, want to play alongside another high profile player like Rose, Bosh, Amare, JJ, etc.

Moving Jefferson gives you the flexibility to stay in the game OR be in the game for a S&T OR be in the game for the possibility of Melo, Parker, some other salary dump.

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loweyecue
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7/4/2010  11:23 AM

Guys if Lebron really wanted Bosh and Bosh only cares about max plus playing with Lebron/Wade then both to NY would have been done by now. We have the only piece Toronto will accept in S & T for Bosh. This is a no brained. If these guys waste time and fail to take advantage of this to the point where Leee walks then that's on them. Management can only do so much.
TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
martin
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7/4/2010  11:36 AM
I generally think the NYPost is more sensational than analytical but this rings true for me (and it came in a Vescey article which is worse LOL).

"If the Knicks indeed have gotten a commitment from Amar'e, the reasons for doing so may have less to do with their love of the player and more to do with a strategy for reeling in LeBron or Dwyane Wade," underlines column contributor Daniel Wallach.

"I get the feeling that Chris Bosh will blindly follow LeBron or Wade. Assuming that happens, what does the other player do? If Bosh joins LeBron in Chicago, there's no way Wade returns to Miami (no running mate other than Carlos Boozer or David Lee). So, he'll join Amar'e in New York. The same thing may apply to LeBron; if Bosh joins Wade in Miami, that removes Chicago as an option for LeBron and he'll likely have to choose between New York (a pairing with Amar'e) or return to Cleveland.

"So, smart play by Walsh, grabbing the low-hanging fruit [Amar'e]. ... Does that explain why the Knicks jumped on Amar'e early?"

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/rich_pitches_by_knicks_nets_were_OsuKMwDbTOR981HBMVdWdL/1#ixzz0sjDPXth9

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loweyecue
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7/4/2010  11:41 AM
Lebron needs to decide if he wants to go down in history as the player who jumped at the best opportunity and had the balls to make his own dynasty in NY or whether he wants to be known as Clevelands favorite prom queen. If he chooses to stay there he should invest his first million on the wedding dress.
TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
TMS
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7/4/2010  1:16 PM
gr33d wrote:One comment was posted at 12:11 a.m. this morning from a P.Ewing. It reads:

"Here's how I see it: Let's just assume the Clips and Nets are out of this thing cause ...well... they're the Clips and the Nets. And let's assume the Cavs are the frontrunners for the obvious reasons (he can get the most money, he's loyal to his hometown, they won 60-plus games 2 years in a row, etc.) that leaves the Knicks, Heat, and Bulls as the teams with an outside chance of landing LeBron. Were's what NY has going for it over MIA and CHI: If Amare is on board, he's currently the best big man on any of the 3 rosters. And even if the other teams pick up Bosh, you could still argue that Amare is every bit as dominant (see 2nd half of last season). I don't why people talk about Gallo as if he's just a 3-point guy. But he's definitely more Dirk than Frye. And he's 21, competitive and improving. Noah is OK but he's as good now as he will be in 3 years. As for the pg, Rose is great... and a waste of talent and cap space if teamed up with LeBron. There's a reason LBJ, Kobe, and MJ have never played with a top pg.... they don't need one. The offense will always flow through their hands. Douglas is more than capable of bringing the ball up, hitting the open shot, and playing solid d. Chandler is talented, as is Walker, and should have big years with a dominant player to free them up a bit. Lastly, you can't kill D'Antoni unless you want to kill mgmt for putting them in the running for James."

did fishmike write that comment by any chance?

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Sangfroid
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7/4/2010  2:35 PM
VDesai wrote:Sheridan is certainly doing a good job of keeping the optimism of Knicks fans alive, but I tend to agree with a lot of what he's saying.

That last spot, 12th man, willgo to Garcia. 6'10" power forward/center. We all know that height doesn't grow on trees.

"We are playing a game. We are playing at not playing a game..."
s3231
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7/4/2010  2:41 PM
martin wrote:I generally think the NYPost is more sensational than analytical but this rings true for me (and it came in a Vescey article which is worse LOL).

"If the Knicks indeed have gotten a commitment from Amar'e, the reasons for doing so may have less to do with their love of the player and more to do with a strategy for reeling in LeBron or Dwyane Wade," underlines column contributor Daniel Wallach.

"I get the feeling that Chris Bosh will blindly follow LeBron or Wade. Assuming that happens, what does the other player do? If Bosh joins LeBron in Chicago, there's no way Wade returns to Miami (no running mate other than Carlos Boozer or David Lee). So, he'll join Amar'e in New York. The same thing may apply to LeBron; if Bosh joins Wade in Miami, that removes Chicago as an option for LeBron and he'll likely have to choose between New York (a pairing with Amar'e) or return to Cleveland.

"So, smart play by Walsh, grabbing the low-hanging fruit [Amar'e]. ... Does that explain why the Knicks jumped on Amar'e early?"

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/rich_pitches_by_knicks_nets_were_OsuKMwDbTOR981HBMVdWdL/1#ixzz0sjDPXth9

Yeah, at least to me, this was what the strategy was with Amare. As soon as I heard about the Amare to NY rumors gaining steam, I just thought of Donnie making a chess move to give the Knicks the best possible chance at LeBron or Wade.

It was a shrewd move considering you have to believe Wade/LeBron both would like the opportunity to pair up with an elite big Bosh/Amare.

"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
King1
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7/4/2010  2:44 PM
If the knicks take amare tomorrow they have all but conceded lebron becuase if says he wants bosh you can't deliver. Why not wait for lebro because no one else if going to overpay amare you have him in your back pocket
Mray20
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7/4/2010  2:56 PM
Just a dream but sign Amare , trade Gallo , eddy curry ,Chandler for Melo, Sign and trade David Lee for Tony Parker.
No layups!
Nalod
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7/4/2010  3:06 PM
You can't wait forever and be closed out.

Lebron can send a backchannel message or Bosh can begin to initiate a sign and trade and say "NEW YORK" and Toronto can say if it will accept Dlee.

As I posted, its a brilliant move by walsh. The way I see it the knicks and Miami are in the most danger of all in or out.

Miami could have snagged Amare and done the same thing as us. Pat is holding for the big one.

Amare in my opinion is the only one with balls so far. The man stepped up.

Be a man and step up and challange Lebron! Amare did. Bosh is looking to follow but he could screw himself.

King1
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7/4/2010  3:09 PM
How is amare having balls he has one offer the knicks and hawks blinked and they overpaid amare and jj? If you trade every future pick and suck for two years to get to 2010 fre agency why not play out the hand? If you end up with amare and nothing else your a 8 seed
Paladin55
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7/4/2010  3:41 PM
I am starting to overload with all the possible permutations, but I've believed for a while that many of our "offers" are contingency offers, and may never come to fruition in the "stars" don't align" (no pun intended) in the proper "formation."

And Sheridan should not apologize for where he stands- we have enough anti-Knicks reporting of dubious integrity to warrant having a NY "homer" in the mix.

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
kam77
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7/4/2010  4:04 PM
martin wrote:I generally think the NYPost is more sensational than analytical but this rings true for me (and it came in a Vescey article which is worse LOL).

"If the Knicks indeed have gotten a commitment from Amar'e, the reasons for doing so may have less to do with their love of the player and more to do with a strategy for reeling in LeBron or Dwyane Wade," underlines column contributor Daniel Wallach.

"I get the feeling that Chris Bosh will blindly follow LeBron or Wade. Assuming that happens, what does the other player do? If Bosh joins LeBron in Chicago, there's no way Wade returns to Miami (no running mate other than Carlos Boozer or David Lee). So, he'll join Amar'e in New York. The same thing may apply to LeBron; if Bosh joins Wade in Miami, that removes Chicago as an option for LeBron and he'll likely have to choose between New York (a pairing with Amar'e) or return to Cleveland.

"So, smart play by Walsh, grabbing the low-hanging fruit [Amar'e]. ... Does that explain why the Knicks jumped on Amar'e early?"

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/rich_pitches_by_knicks_nets_were_OsuKMwDbTOR981HBMVdWdL/1#ixzz0sjDPXth9

It is from an email from Daniel Wallach, not Vescey himself. Too intelligent for Vescey.

lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
gr33d
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7/4/2010  5:43 PM
King1 wrote:How is amare having balls he has one offer the knicks and hawks blinked and they overpaid amare and jj? If you trade every future pick and suck for two years to get to 2010 fre agency why not play out the hand? If you end up with amare and nothing else your a 8 seed

Actually Amare declined the Suns offer, which was similar money. We're not the only ones after him...

"If you ain't first, you're last" - Ricky Bobby
King1
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7/4/2010  5:57 PM
Phoenix offered him 20 less million and the last two years werent guaranteed unless he played a certain amount of minutes. No other team has met or offered Amare anything.
loweyecue
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7/4/2010  6:36 PM
King1 wrote:How is amare having balls he has one offer the knicks and hawks blinked and they overpaid amare and jj? If you trade every future pick and suck for two years to get to 2010 fre agency why not play out the hand? If you end up with amare and nothing else your a 8 seed

Pat the Rat is playing the hand out and he started at an advantage having Wade already on home turf. And he may yet get shut out of this FA bonanza. What Walsh did is the best possible move and it sends a strong clear signal to Lebron and Wade we are serious about putting our money where our mouth is. We want you guys to come here and win with us and we wont nickel and dime your ass to death.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
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7/4/2010  8:09 PM
King1 wrote:Phoenix offered him 20 less million and the last two years werent guaranteed unless he played a certain amount of minutes. No other team has met or offered Amare anything.

The way he strutted in and started recruiting I venture it is contingent on him bringing another max player to NY be it LeBron, Wade or some combo of others that the Knicks will buy. And he has positioned himself to force the issue hoping he gets in before Bosh does. All along I believe Bosh has preferred to swing with Wade and a max contract wherever he lands. Miami is warmer than Toronto. Makes for a nice aggressive gambit by Amare and the promise of a $100 mill guaranteed makes it a no brainer. Surely there would be a full physical by the Knicks medical staff too.

Interesting plays by Wade. Especially the quote "give me one of these players and we'll get a title" Before this all started the 7/1 conclusion here was only one team could really offer two maxes. Wade and Bosh or Amare and James to choose from perhaps? That would be a tough choice.

Bill Simmons on Tyreke Evans "The prototypical 0-guard: Someone who handles the ball all the time, looks for his own shot, gets to the rim at will and operates best if his teammates spread the floor to watch him."
Knicks' clutter of possibilities [article]

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