http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/this_could_turn_ugly_in_hurry_O4i6fsdy3XYgvZMZrYfvtI?CMP=OTC-rss&FEEDNAME=

For me it was simple. Rebuild the team by going to the draft. Giving up players for salary cap space to sign free agents is the wrong way to build a team. We want championship level players, not player that are just good enough to get us to an early exit each year of the playoffs. Now look, it is the summer of 2010 and the Knicks have continued their dumb plan of going for free agency first rather than trying to get the best draft spots they could. I wonder what is going to happen .

the draft is a bigger crap shoot than FA. Much bigger. Its very hard to get a star player in the caliber of Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Amare or Dirk in the draft.

speaking of Amare he was picked 9th. Yao (always hurt) was picked 1. Between them? Jay Williams, Dunleavy, Gooden, Skita, Dajuan Wagner, Nene and Chris Wilcox.

What if THATS the draft your have your lotter pick in? Year before? Kwame, Tyson Chandler, Gasol (good), Curry, Jason Richardson, Battier, Eddie Griffon, Diop, Rodney White and Joe Johnson rounding out the top 10.

We could go on and on and on....

The draft is a great tool for adding players, and it looks like w/ Douglas, Gallo, Fields, Rautins, Jerome that Walsh is seriously using the draft to get rotation player.

The Knicks have a legit shot at Lebron. If its 20% chance thats LEGIT.

I'm sorry but I 100% agree with the chance you could set your franchise back a year or even two to give yourself a legit chance to sign a guy of that caliber.

Its a no brainer.

ALSO

unlike Isiah Walsh has top 5 protection on the draft pick permanently. We will NEVER have an Otis Thorpe, Marbury, Curry scenario where we give up a top pick in a year where we are killed by injuries.

Los Angeles Lakers --Kobe Bryant
Los Angeles Lakers --Kobe Bryant
Boston Celtics --Paul Pierce
San Antonio Spurs --Tony Parker
Miami Heat --Dwyane Wade
San Antonio Spurs --Tim Duncan
Detroit Pistons *
San Antonio Spurs --Tim Duncan
Los Angeles Lakers --Kobe Bryant
Los Angeles Lakers --Kobe Bryant
Los Angeles Lakers --Kobe Bryant

Notice anything? I would have gone on past that but I believe this is more than enough to prove my point. Do you see a pattern here? Notice that every team above started by building with the draft and then added a superstar after they had their drafted star?

The only exception noted above is the Detroit Pistons and that only is because they were able to collect players who were extremely talented and did not demand that much money. I guarantee you 9 times out of 10 that wont happen. As a matter of fact if you look at the long list of nba champions in this era you will be hard pressed to find another team like that. Even then, the Pistons only won one championship. (Oh and by the way they had Tayshaun Prince).

@Fishmike
2 things
1) I would rather go to the draft and fail to find a good player. Why? Because then I have the opportunity to go back to the draft again next year and try to get the championship level player I am after. If I sign a big time free agent who is not a championship level player I am going to go to become a perennial playoff loser.
2) Walsh had the chance to get more picks but instead decided he wanted cap space instead. I dont care if a couple of picks he traded away have top 5 protection, he still traded them away and he didn't get any worthwhile picks back.

@loweyecue
We have a 0% chance of getting Lebron. It is a fairytale. LeBron is toying with your heart. Take the rose colored glasses off your face and wake up. The only chance we had was to target the draft while everyone else was targeting this free agency period. We could have traded our way up to some good picks in the next couple years to come with every other team willing to give up the whole shebang trying to get Lebron, but no we had to join in. What a horrible plan.

subzero0 wrote:@Fishmike and @loweyecue

Los Angeles Lakers --Kobe Bryant
Los Angeles Lakers --Kobe Bryant
Boston Celtics --Paul Pierce
San Antonio Spurs --Tony Parker
Miami Heat --Dwyane Wade
San Antonio Spurs --Tim Duncan
Detroit Pistons *
San Antonio Spurs --Tim Duncan
Los Angeles Lakers --Kobe Bryant
Los Angeles Lakers --Kobe Bryant
Los Angeles Lakers --Kobe Bryant

Notice anything? I would have gone on past that but I believe this is more than enough to prove my point. Do you see a pattern here? Notice that every team above started by building with the draft and then added a superstar after they had their drafted star?

The only exception noted above is the Detroit Pistons and that only is because they were able to collect players who were extremely talented and did not demand that much money. I guarantee you 9 times out of 10 that wont happen. As a matter of fact if you look at the long list of nba champions in this era you will be hard pressed to find another team like that. Even then, the Pistons only won one championship. (Oh and by the way they had Tayshaun Prince).

@Fishmike
2 things
1) I would rather go to the draft and fail to find a good player. Why? Because then I have the opportunity to go back to the draft again next year and try to get the championship level player I am after. If I sign a big time free agent who is not a championship level player I am going to go to become a perennial playoff loser.
2) Walsh had the chance to get more picks but instead decided he wanted cap space instead. I dont care if a couple of picks he traded away have top 5 protection, he still traded them away and he didn't get any worthwhile picks back.

@loweyecue
We have a 0% chance of getting Lebron. It is a fairytale. LeBron is toying with your heart. Take the rose colored glasses off your face and wake up. The only chance we had was to target the draft while everyone else was targeting this free agency period. We could have traded our way up to some good picks in the next couple years to come with every other team willing to give up the whole shebang trying to get Lebron, but no we had to join in. What a horrible plan.

I'm sorry but that sucks. It totally sucks.

Didnt the Pistons win a title and go to b2b finals? Wasnt the finals MVP (Billups) signed as a FA? Sheed, Ben Wallace, Rip Hamilton... all aquired through trades.

Did the Celtics just win a title and go to the finals? KG/Ray were trades

High lottery picks are something you try to capitolize on, not something you strive for.

The lottery is like the mafia. Once your in its tough to get out. For every franchise or all star player taking in the lottery there are 4x as many that are just rotation players or total busts.

Not to mention you just wasted a whole year of unwatchable hoops to roll the dice on the draft. MAybe you get lucky and win the #1 pick and get Greg Oden (hurt), or Yao (hurt) or Bargani (female) or KMart (sucks) or Kwame (sucks).

And just for the record if this plan doesnt work and and we have a 20 win season? Or win the lottery? Our top 5 picks are protected every year but next, and the Rockets are a lottery team next year anyway.

You can disagree with this management all you want but building through the draft is anything but clear cut

Moonangie wrote:I agree with fish and bbq: Draft is the bigger crap shoot. It requires luck, whereas FA signing requires solid planning and cap space. I like our strategy fine because the target is Lebron James. If we miss, then we can talk about the draft as a backup plan. But with a once in a generation talent like Lebron, you just gotta go for it. If we get him, we can build from there.

draft is cheaper. you mess up with the draft, it doesnt potentially cripple your for years with ginormous contracts of under performing guys. draft gives you more control. all the home work in the world cant predict how a draft pick or a FA will do once you get them, the diff you can say is if you draft a guy you probably can sign him. there is no guarantee of getting the FA you want.

fishmike wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

Moonangie wrote:I agree with fish and bbq: Draft is the bigger crap shoot. It requires luck, whereas FA signing requires solid planning and cap space. I like our strategy fine because the target is Lebron James. If we miss, then we can talk about the draft as a backup plan. But with a once in a generation talent like Lebron, you just gotta go for it. If we get him, we can build from there.

draft is cheaper. you mess up with the draft, it doesnt potentially cripple your for years with ginormous contracts of under performing guys. draft gives you more control. all the home work in the world cant predict how a draft pick or a FA will do once you get them, the diff you can say is if you draft a guy you probably can sign him. there is no guarantee of getting the FA you want.

go through every draft since Michael Jordan and tell me how many years and drafts it took before they got good players and fielded a playoff team. This from what was regarded as a team with solid management.

Do the same with Golden State. How about the Clippers? Then when you have your own guy for 4-5 years and he he's good but your still in the lottery do you lose that talented player for nothing or do you resign him for market value?

We could go through this all day.

What's the other name for the Draft? Oh Right, LOTTERY! Who would have thought? For years people bitch and whine about management mess ups and finally we have a management team who have a plan and are trying to execute and now people whine about why we are not sitting on the sidelines watching the the biggest named FAs ever go top waste while trusting the lottery.

Seriously people, what the heck do you guys really want? Taking your chances with the lottery? Would you quit your day jobs to play the powerball? SMH.

sidsanders wrote:

fishmike wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

Moonangie wrote:I agree with fish and bbq: Draft is the bigger crap shoot. It requires luck, whereas FA signing requires solid planning and cap space. I like our strategy fine because the target is Lebron James. If we miss, then we can talk about the draft as a backup plan. But with a once in a generation talent like Lebron, you just gotta go for it. If we get him, we can build from there.

draft is cheaper. you mess up with the draft, it doesnt potentially cripple your for years with ginormous contracts of under performing guys. draft gives you more control. all the home work in the world cant predict how a draft pick or a FA will do once you get them, the diff you can say is if you draft a guy you probably can sign him. there is no guarantee of getting the FA you want.

go through every draft since Michael Jordan and tell me how many years and drafts it took before they got good players and fielded a playoff team. This from what was regarded as a team with solid management.

Do the same with Golden State. How about the Clippers? Then when you have your own guy for 4-5 years and he he's good but your still in the lottery do you lose that talented player for nothing or do you resign him for market value?

We could go through this all day.

outside of shaq how many major FAs have exchanged teams that lead to titles? my point is only that the draft is cheaper and less painful when you screw it up (and thats only under the current cba with the rookie cap), as well as having a bit more control over who you bring in.

most teams are run by clowns so failing in the draft year to year is no shock. i suspect those teams also sign guys to bad contracts and/or make awful trades as well. poor drafting , poor FA choices and bad trades each taken alone <> poor results, its a combo of them all. it seems to me given the $$$ and years of contracts, i can accept messing up the draft a bit easier then getting a maxed out bum like arenas/marbury/etc.

here's the other side of it. For the Knicks to come close to winning the draft, Donnie would have to have done EXACTLY like he did by giving Crawford, Randolph away. And he would have to give Lee away too to make sure we get into the 1-5 area.

And then stay in the draft for another couple of years to make sure he hit the top pick or 2 and also coincide that with a Franchise player. We are talking being bad for the last 2 years with perhaps another 2-4 years for good measure. That's after being caca for 10 years.

And then you start building... and perhaps you see playoffs in 2-3 years after that.

fishmike wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

fishmike wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

Moonangie wrote:I agree with fish and bbq: Draft is the bigger crap shoot. It requires luck, whereas FA signing requires solid planning and cap space. I like our strategy fine because the target is Lebron James. If we miss, then we can talk about the draft as a backup plan. But with a once in a generation talent like Lebron, you just gotta go for it. If we get him, we can build from there.

draft is cheaper. you mess up with the draft, it doesnt potentially cripple your for years with ginormous contracts of under performing guys. draft gives you more control. all the home work in the world cant predict how a draft pick or a FA will do once you get them, the diff you can say is if you draft a guy you probably can sign him. there is no guarantee of getting the FA you want.

go through every draft since Michael Jordan and tell me how many years and drafts it took before they got good players and fielded a playoff team. This from what was regarded as a team with solid management.

Do the same with Golden State. How about the Clippers? Then when you have your own guy for 4-5 years and he he's good but your still in the lottery do you lose that talented player for nothing or do you resign him for market value?

We could go through this all day.

outside of shaq how many major FAs have exchanged teams that lead to titles? my point is only that the draft is cheaper and less painful when you screw it up (and thats only under the current cba with the rookie cap), as well as having a bit more control over who you bring in.

most teams are run by clowns so failing in the draft year to year is no shock. i suspect those teams also sign guys to bad contracts and/or make awful trades as well. poor drafting , poor FA choices and bad trades each taken alone <> poor results, its a combo of them all. it seems to me given the $$$ and years of contracts, i can accept messing up the draft a bit easier then getting a maxed out bum like arenas/marbury/etc.

Grant Hill and Tracy McGrady both were stars in their prime when they left via FA. Marbury was an all star when he left for NJ. Steve Nash was a 2 time MVP AFTER he left via FA. Chauncy Billups was the NBA finals MVP after he signed w/ Detroit via free agency. Elton Brand was on the best PFs in the game when he signed the Heat's offer sheet. Arenas turned the Wizards into a playoff team after he was signed via free agency. Didnt Miami make those playoff runs after signing Zo and Tim Hardaway as free agents? Utah built their frontcourt via free agency signing Boozer and Okur...

If everything goes right for the Knicks they will build with free agents (hopefully Lebron + Amare). They will build with the draft w/ Chandler, Gallo and Douglas being set as rotation guys. Hopefully Rautins, Fields and Jerome become rotation guys also. finally they will build through a trade also turning Curry's expiring deal into good players come next Jan/Feb

wasnt suggesting elite FA's dont leave (or cant make you better), more so that how many have lead to titles. not many (of course most title teams have FA's they have signed). for what they hope to do, thats fine with me --- gotta get lbj.