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Chris Sheridan has an Epiphany!
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nixluva
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6/28/2010  10:37 AM
By Chris Sheridan

So here we are, inside of 72 hours before the start of free agency, and there are those who are convinced the Chicago Bulls are the leading candidate to land LeBron James.

There is a compelling argument to be made in favor of that supposition (Chicago has the most talent in place with Derrick Rose, Luol Deng and Joakim Noah already under contract for 2010-11), but will that argument hold up under further forward-looking scrutiny?

It's an important question, because in my conversations over the weekend with several league sources keyed into the maneuverings surrounding the start of free agency July 1, the dialogue consistently circled back to one pertinent point: When LeBron looks at what will surround him on his future team, especially when weighing Chicago vs. New York, he is going to have questions of his own.

Such as:

_ Will the owner (Jerry Reinsdorf) be willing to spend whatever it takes to surround him with the right type of supporting cast?

Let's not forget that Reinsdorf has a well-earned reputation as being one of the more frugal owners in the league (he broke up a dynasty following the 1998 three-peat because in large part because he did not want to commit long-term dollars to Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen for what would be the downsides of their careers). Noah becomes a restricted free agent in 2011, and Rose in 2012. Is Reinsdorf willing to commit $150 million or more in long-term dollars (plus luxury tax money) to those two players on top of what he'll be paying James and another top-tier free agent? James will have no such qualms when it comes to the wallet-opening tendencies of Jim Dolan, who has shelled out luxury tax payments from Cablevision's deep coffers to pay for horrible teams over the better part of the past decade.

_ What do I know about the new coach, Tom Thibodeau?

The answer: Practically nothing when compared to what he knows of Mike D'Antoni. If you count up all the hours LeBron has spent on planes, trains, hotels and buses with D'Antoni since 2006, when the James first started playing under D'Antoni (and Mike Krzyzewski and Nate McMillan) with Team USA, you start running into the high triple-digits. D'Antoni and James have been together for dinners at the Wynn resort in Las Vegas, at U.S. military bases in South Korea, at Morton's in Macau, at Starbucks in Shanghai, and inside the locker room in Beijing when James celebrated the greatest accomplishment of his professional career by winning an Olympic gold medal in 2008.

_ Who is my 3-point shooter?

It won't be Kirk Hinrich, since he is heading to the Wizards on July 8. It won't be Rose, because he can't shoot the 3 (27 pct last season). It won't be Jannero Pargo, since he will be an unrestricted free agent and is not guaranteed to return, and it might not be Deng, because he may have to be used as a sign-and-trade chip to acquire that second max free agent (especially if that second player is Chris Bosh, who stands to make $30 million extra if he changes teams through a sign-and-trade deal). With the Knicks, he'd at least have Danilo Gallinari, who can stroke it so well that D'Antoni (in a mouthful of comment last fall) has described him as the best shooter he has ever seen.

_ Can Rose play off the ball?

That is one of the great unknowns in this whole equation, because Rose has shown himself (like James) to be a player who is most effective when he has the ball in his hands to run the offense. Can Rose subjugate his game to be the type of spot-up shooter that Mo Williams was in Cleveland? And what about the defensive end? Can Rose defend opposing point guards better than, or as well as, Toney Douglas can? Granted, Douglas is somewhat of an unknown on that level in the pros, and D'Antoni probably hurt himself in that department by limiting Douglas' minutes in favor of Chris Duhon last season. But Douglas was the defensive player of the year in the ACC during his final season at Florida State, and there's no taking that off his resume.

_ Can the Bulls improve themselves in the summer of 2011 as much as the Knicks can?

If the Bulls hang onto Deng and sign James and another max free agent, they will be over the cap in the summer of 2011 and will have only the mid-level exception to use (and there is a caveat there, too, since owners want to eliminate the MLE in the next collective bargaining agreement). If Deng is moved in a sign-and-trade, the Bulls will still be committed to at least $51 million in salaries for 2011-12, which would theoretically leave them some $5-6 million under the cap, thereby depriving them of the use of the mid-level exception (The MLE is not available to under-the-cap teams). The Knicks, on the other hand, will have Eddy Curry's $11.3 million salary coming off the books a year from now. If New York has two max players, plus Gallinari, Douglas, Wilson Chandler and Bill Walker on the books for the '11-12 season, that adds up to roughly $45 million in salaries. And if the 2011-12 cap comes in at $56 million again, New York will have $11 million to spend on putting supplemental pieces around their core -- an especially salient point given that the owners are seeking a hard salary cap in the new labor agreement.

Just a little food for thought for y'all to chew on until, and after, 12:01 a.m. arrives Thursday.

AUTOADVERT
Nalod
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6/28/2010  10:50 AM
Wait, but after reading this IM not mad at Walsh or MDA for not playing Jordan Hill and humiliation of Marbury!

IM back on the Lebron-a-thon!!!!!!

Dammit, Just when I thought this was all Good Im again lamenting about Whiteside. I used to live in "WhiteStone", Watched Jerome Whitehead, and well, being white myself its one side of me in any event.

THere is logic that Chicago is not that great, and you know that quirk thing that they still need to move cap. Deng is Glen Rice. Tough Shoyt Bulls.

nixluva
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6/28/2010  11:00 AM
I don't know why we fans have been saying these very things about Chicago but it this long for someone in the media to finally voice these problems with the Bulls. NY has always been near the top as a destination and still is. The presence of Rose just makes people think Bron would win there faster but when u look beyond the name and examine Rose game it doesn't really complement Bron that much and they have no floor spreading shooters, while we do.

The Knicks are actually more athletic too. Chandler, Walker and Landry are highly athletic and TD is very fast. We have more fastbreak players and more 3pt shooters.

djsunyc
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6/28/2010  11:02 AM
nixluva wrote:I don't know why we fans have been saying these very things about Chicago but it this long for someone in the media to finally voice these problems with the Bulls. NY has always been near the top as a destination and still is. The presence of Rose just makes people think Bron would win there faster but when u look beyond the name and examine Rose game it doesn't really complement Bron that much and they have no floor spreading shooters, while we do.

The Knicks are actually more athletic too. Chandler, Walker and Landry are highly athletic and TD is very fast. We have more fastbreak players and more 3pt shooters.

ray + kg + pierce...remember the argument that there's not enough ball to go around? good players know how to play with each other.

martin
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6/28/2010  11:17 AM
djsunyc wrote:
nixluva wrote:I don't know why we fans have been saying these very things about Chicago but it this long for someone in the media to finally voice these problems with the Bulls. NY has always been near the top as a destination and still is. The presence of Rose just makes people think Bron would win there faster but when u look beyond the name and examine Rose game it doesn't really complement Bron that much and they have no floor spreading shooters, while we do.

The Knicks are actually more athletic too. Chandler, Walker and Landry are highly athletic and TD is very fast. We have more fastbreak players and more 3pt shooters.

ray + kg + pierce...remember the argument that there's not enough ball to go around? good players know how to play with each other.

you would also have to say that those 3 guys compliment each other perfectly and none of them constantly needs the ball in his hands, no so with Rose/LeBron.

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Moonangie
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6/28/2010  11:19 AM
nixluva wrote:I don't know why we fans have been saying these very things about Chicago but it this long for someone in the media to finally voice these problems with the Bulls. NY has always been near the top as a destination and still is. The presence of Rose just makes people think Bron would win there faster but when u look beyond the name and examine Rose game it doesn't really complement Bron that much and they have no floor spreading shooters, while we do.

The Knicks are actually more athletic too. Chandler, Walker and Landry are highly athletic and TD is very fast. We have more fastbreak players and more 3pt shooters.

THe article only mentioned Gallo as a 3pt threat, but if memory serves, Walker was strokin it regularly last year and looks to be a definite shooting complement should Gallo get too much attention. I also understand that TD has been working on the long-range shooting and I fully expect him to be a 38-40% guy at some point in his career. We all know he is hard core on the other side of the ball. If Bosh decides to join Lebron, I think it's a no-brainer that NY offers a MUCH more complementary team for Lebron than Chitown.

I have been saying it all along, Rose is not a good match up with Lebron because they both need to dominate the ball. Rose is an awful long range shooter, and Hinrich is gone. THat deal may have actually HELPED New York more than hurt it.

Booya.

djsunyc
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6/28/2010  11:22 AM    LAST EDITED: 6/28/2010  11:23 AM
martin wrote:
djsunyc wrote:
nixluva wrote:I don't know why we fans have been saying these very things about Chicago but it this long for someone in the media to finally voice these problems with the Bulls. NY has always been near the top as a destination and still is. The presence of Rose just makes people think Bron would win there faster but when u look beyond the name and examine Rose game it doesn't really complement Bron that much and they have no floor spreading shooters, while we do.

The Knicks are actually more athletic too. Chandler, Walker and Landry are highly athletic and TD is very fast. We have more fastbreak players and more 3pt shooters.

ray + kg + pierce...remember the argument that there's not enough ball to go around? good players know how to play with each other.

you would also have to say that those 3 guys compliment each other perfectly and none of them constantly needs the ball in his hands, no so with Rose/LeBron.

pierce prior to the "big three" - had the ball in his hands most of the time.
ray prior to the "big three" - took the most shots on his team
kg prior to the "big three" - had the offense run through him.

but miraculously, they complemented each other?

look at the bulls - anybody else you want to handle the ball than rose? it was by design and their roster limitations. a year earlier, it worked quite nicely with him and ben gordon. trying to find reasons for things not to work is silly b/c until they all get on the court, we don't know how it will look. but considering what a great teammate lebron is, i will lean towards it working wherever he goes with whomever he's playing with.

knicks1248
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6/28/2010  11:23 AM
djsunyc wrote:
nixluva wrote:I don't know why we fans have been saying these very things about Chicago but it this long for someone in the media to finally voice these problems with the Bulls. NY has always been near the top as a destination and still is. The presence of Rose just makes people think Bron would win there faster but when u look beyond the name and examine Rose game it doesn't really complement Bron that much and they have no floor spreading shooters, while we do.

The Knicks are actually more athletic too. Chandler, Walker and Landry are highly athletic and TD is very fast. We have more fastbreak players and more 3pt shooters.

ray + kg + pierce...remember the argument that there's not enough ball to go around? good players know how to play with each other.

Maan Those guys where veterens with close to 30 years experince btwn them, thats a huge difference, they were finish accomplishing individule goals and where focus more on a ring.

Rose as yet to grasp that winning mentally, dating back to his college days, he has an enormus amount of talent, but as you can see, winning big games as not appeared on his resume as of yet.

ES
Vmart
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6/28/2010  11:28 AM
djsunyc wrote:
nixluva wrote:I don't know why we fans have been saying these very things about Chicago but it this long for someone in the media to finally voice these problems with the Bulls. NY has always been near the top as a destination and still is. The presence of Rose just makes people think Bron would win there faster but when u look beyond the name and examine Rose game it doesn't really complement Bron that much and they have no floor spreading shooters, while we do.

The Knicks are actually more athletic too. Chandler, Walker and Landry are highly athletic and TD is very fast. We have more fastbreak players and more 3pt shooters.

ray + kg + pierce...remember the argument that there's not enough ball to go around? good players know how to play with each other.

They were also at the tail end of their careers, they put their ego aside to go for the championship. These guys are in their prime and they want to be the man just as KG, Allen and Pierce did when they had their own team.

We have been saying this for a while but the Knicks are built for LeBron. The floor spreaders to slashers the Knicks have the perfect combination of the everything even a post presence in Curry when playing of course.

djsunyc
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6/28/2010  11:33 AM
i bet if the knicks had rose and lebron + bosh were looking to come to ny, nixluva and martin would be on the other side of the fence.

no need to micro-analyze everything or try to find reasons stuff won't work. put them on the court and let them play. nobody knows how it will look but lebron got it to look great with the cavs...i would make an educated guess and say it will look just as good if not better with the bulls. not to mention that if it doesn't work, the bulls can easily move rose down the road. nba is not static, it's fluid and many changes can happen.

nixluva
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6/28/2010  11:40 AM
Rose entire game is about having the ball. He got a bit of action off the ball but he's just not a perfect match. Ray Allen has always been more of a catch and shoot specialist like Reggie Miller, so he was a good match for Pierce and KG. I don't see any problems in the C's big 3. That was a great grouping that complemented each other.
martin
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6/28/2010  11:46 AM
djsunyc wrote:
martin wrote:
djsunyc wrote:
nixluva wrote:I don't know why we fans have been saying these very things about Chicago but it this long for someone in the media to finally voice these problems with the Bulls. NY has always been near the top as a destination and still is. The presence of Rose just makes people think Bron would win there faster but when u look beyond the name and examine Rose game it doesn't really complement Bron that much and they have no floor spreading shooters, while we do.

The Knicks are actually more athletic too. Chandler, Walker and Landry are highly athletic and TD is very fast. We have more fastbreak players and more 3pt shooters.

ray + kg + pierce...remember the argument that there's not enough ball to go around? good players know how to play with each other.

you would also have to say that those 3 guys compliment each other perfectly and none of them constantly needs the ball in his hands, no so with Rose/LeBron.

pierce prior to the "big three" - had the ball in his hands most of the time.
ray prior to the "big three" - took the most shots on his team
kg prior to the "big three" - had the offense run through him.

but miraculously, they complemented each other?

look at the bulls - anybody else you want to handle the ball than rose? it was by design and their roster limitations. a year earlier, it worked quite nicely with him and ben gordon. trying to find reasons for things not to work is silly b/c until they all get on the court, we don't know how it will look. but considering what a great teammate lebron is, i will lean towards it working wherever he goes with whomever he's playing with.

Every all-star (or best player) on every team has got the ball in his hands, so showing that with KG, Ray, Pierce before they got together doesn't add much, right? It's like saying Shaq wouldn't compliment Kobe when he came to the Lakers, but they did form a good inside out tandem.

you must have been a fan of the Randolph addition to Curry in the low post, right? It was easy for everyone to see that these guys wouldn't mesh cause they didn't compliment each other.

Rose is a slasher/distributor, not an outside shooter. Gordon is a scorer and not much of distributor. LeBron likes to instigate offense and have the ball in his hands a lot, same with Rose.

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martin
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6/28/2010  11:49 AM
Moonangie wrote:
nixluva wrote:I don't know why we fans have been saying these very things about Chicago but it this long for someone in the media to finally voice these problems with the Bulls. NY has always been near the top as a destination and still is. The presence of Rose just makes people think Bron would win there faster but when u look beyond the name and examine Rose game it doesn't really complement Bron that much and they have no floor spreading shooters, while we do.

The Knicks are actually more athletic too. Chandler, Walker and Landry are highly athletic and TD is very fast. We have more fastbreak players and more 3pt shooters.

THe article only mentioned Gallo as a 3pt threat, but if memory serves, Walker was strokin it regularly last year and looks to be a definite shooting complement should Gallo get too much attention. I also understand that TD has been working on the long-range shooting and I fully expect him to be a 38-40% guy at some point in his career. We all know he is hard core on the other side of the ball. If Bosh decides to join Lebron, I think it's a no-brainer that NY offers a MUCH more complementary team for Lebron than Chitown.

I have been saying it all along, Rose is not a good match up with Lebron because they both need to dominate the ball. Rose is an awful long range shooter, and Hinrich is gone. THat deal may have actually HELPED New York more than hurt it.

Booya.

already happened in his rookie year: 3pfg 38.9% http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3979

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Nalod
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6/28/2010  12:01 PM
Ray skill set was very condusive to being even more effective off the ball. KG needs to get fed. Pierce as point forward made it all very compatable.

Lebron can conform if he wants.

But lets be real, They can sign lebron and trade DRose straight up for Chris Paul. THink NO would not do that in a secaond? Deng/Rose for Paul. They still have some nice cap space to fill out the roster.

We can go round and round..........

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6/28/2010  1:28 PM
djsunyc wrote:
martin wrote:
djsunyc wrote:
nixluva wrote:I don't know why we fans have been saying these very things about Chicago but it this long for someone in the media to finally voice these problems with the Bulls. NY has always been near the top as a destination and still is. The presence of Rose just makes people think Bron would win there faster but when u look beyond the name and examine Rose game it doesn't really complement Bron that much and they have no floor spreading shooters, while we do.

The Knicks are actually more athletic too. Chandler, Walker and Landry are highly athletic and TD is very fast. We have more fastbreak players and more 3pt shooters.

ray + kg + pierce...remember the argument that there's not enough ball to go around? good players know how to play with each other.

you would also have to say that those 3 guys compliment each other perfectly and none of them constantly needs the ball in his hands, no so with Rose/LeBron.

pierce prior to the "big three" - had the ball in his hands most of the time.
ray prior to the "big three" - took the most shots on his team
kg prior to the "big three" - had the offense run through him.

but miraculously, they complemented each other?

look at the bulls - anybody else you want to handle the ball than rose? it was by design and their roster limitations. a year earlier, it worked quite nicely with him and ben gordon. trying to find reasons for things not to work is silly b/c until they all get on the court, we don't know how it will look. but considering what a great teammate lebron is, i will lean towards it working wherever he goes with whomever he's playing with.


Pierce and Allen were known snipers who could knock down a shot on a catch and shoot. Garnett had his midrange J which he could hit if the ball was swung around to him. All of them are guys who don't have to have the ball all the time for maximum performance.

We are not sure if Rose can be a major contributor off the ball. He is at his best when he is handling the ball and driving or pulling up for his midrange shot off the dribble. If you remember his great run in the NCAA's- much of his teams success came about because he was basically given control over things, if I remember correctly.

I asked this in another post- what do you think Rose's shooting % for pull-ups off the dribble would be in comparison to, what his % on the catch and shoot? I expect that there is a large difference. I would also hypothesize that he rarely, if at all, takes a jumper without having to dribble first for timing purposes.

Rose, at this point in his career, has to have the ball to be effective. Noah, who I love as a player, is not a consistent midrange shooter, and may never be. Deng would benefit from the other two being on the team. Gibson has a nice midrange shot, but like almost everyone else on the Bulls, his shooting skills will not spread the floor to allow Rose and James to operate to maximum effect. Chicago would have to pick up someone like JJ to hang around on the perimeter.

Rose's contributions will be diminished if he has to take the back seat to James, and his midrange ability will suffer.

The Knicks already have Gallo, Douglas, Walker, and yes, Rautins, who can open up the middle for LeBron or a player in the post. We still need a rebounder and shot blocker, but the difference between the two teams is not as great as it would seem because in some aspects our guys compliment LeBron's abilities better than Chicago's present team does.

Does not mean that he is necessarily coming here, but the difference between what Chicago and the Knicks can offer LeBron in terms of personnel is not clear cut either way, IMO.

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AnubisADL
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6/28/2010  1:37 PM
This article doesnt help the Knicks as much as it helps the Nets.

The Nets have Lopez and Harris combined with an array of tradeable assets. If you combine that with a billionaire owner who is willing to spend like Dolan then forget about it.

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crzymdups
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6/28/2010  1:56 PM
AnubisADL wrote:This article doesnt help the Knicks as much as it helps the Nets.

The Nets have Lopez and Harris combined with an array of tradeable assets. If you combine that with a billionaire owner who is willing to spend like Dolan then forget about it.

too bad they play in newark and won 12 games with their hot young core last year.

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nixluva
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6/28/2010  2:04 PM
AnubisADL wrote:This article doesnt help the Knicks as much as it helps the Nets.

The Nets have Lopez and Harris combined with an array of tradeable assets. If you combine that with a billionaire owner who is willing to spend like Dolan then forget about it.

The same Nets that even with those guys could only muster 12 wins? I fail to see how Harris and Lopez is such a great thing that it trumps what the Knicks can put together. We still have the ability to add 2 Max players you know. So what the Nets have those 2! What the heck have they ever done to raise their stock so much?

The points raised are that the Bulls don't have 3 pt shooters and their best player is basically the same as Lebron in how they play best. The Knicks however have a roster that can surround Lebron/Bosh/Amare etc with players that complement great players. Basically we have a system that rewards 3 pt shooting and we have 3 pt shooters. Now add a penetrating ball distributor and there you go. It all fits.

CrushAlot
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6/28/2010  2:16 PM
nixluva wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:This article doesnt help the Knicks as much as it helps the Nets.

The Nets have Lopez and Harris combined with an array of tradeable assets. If you combine that with a billionaire owner who is willing to spend like Dolan then forget about it.

The same Nets that even with those guys could only muster 12 wins? I fail to see how Harris and Lopez is such a great thing that it trumps what the Knicks can put together. We still have the ability to add 2 Max players you know. So what the Nets have those 2! What the heck have they ever done to raise their stock so much?

The points raised are that the Bulls don't have 3 pt shooters and their best player is basically the same as Lebron in how they play best. The Knicks however have a roster that can surround Lebron/Bosh/Amare etc with players that complement great players. Basically we have a system that rewards 3 pt shooting and we have 3 pt shooters. Now add a penetrating ball distributor and there you go. It all fits.

The Nets just waived Dooling and I know only 500,000 of his salary counts against their cap. I don't think that they are in the LeBron hunt at this point but they do have assets and talent. I think Favors is going to be great. I think when you talk about their roster winning 12 games you have to remember that Harris was injured for a portion of the season as was most of their starting line up. I don't like the argument dismissing Lopez and his accomplishments because the Nets won 12 games. The Nets have a better roster, more assets, cap space, a very good coach, and an ambitious involved owner. What the Nets do not have is any prestige at this point. If the Nets were in Brooklyn they would have a much better shot at LeBron.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
djsunyc
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6/28/2010  2:22 PM
Nalod wrote:Ray skill set was very condusive to being even more effective off the ball. KG needs to get fed. Pierce as point forward made it all very compatable.

Lebron can conform if he wants.

But lets be real, They can sign lebron and trade DRose straight up for Chris Paul. THink NO would not do that in a secaond? Deng/Rose for Paul. They still have some nice cap space to fill out the roster.

We can go round and round..........

nalod = the voice of reason...

Chris Sheridan has an Epiphany!

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