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Andy Rautins and Toney Douglas
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rvwink
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6/25/2010  3:10 PM
The story of Toney Douglas last year, is that player who spent his college career playing shooting guard, committed to making himself into an NBA point guard. While he remains a work in progress, he did manage to make enough progress last year, to beat out the Knicks other two point guards, who spent years playing the point.

The people who don't like Andy Rautin's game at shooting guard, may be unaware that this year the Knicks drafted another point guard conversion project. Andy is also an intelligent player, who shoots threes about 2 percentage points more accurately than Toney, is also a good passer, is substantially taller than Toney, and is also enthusiastic about playing defense. Those that think that Andy Rautin is not a serious contender to eventually become a starter for the Knicks at some future point, are not paying close enough attention imo.

The recipe for players who will fit D'Antoni's system properly includes capable outside shooting, unselfish efficient passing, and high basketball IQ. I find it not a coincidence that the Phoenix Suns, who play similarly to the Knicks, also had an interest in Fields. The reason the Knick's two draft picks were not all that popular with most of the assorted draft guru's is because they are being hand picked to have the attributes that Mike prizes. So who knows more about which players will fit well in the Knick's system, the Draft Guru's, or Mike D'Antoni? If you think the Draft Express knows more about what players will fit better in the Knicks system, than Mike D'Antoni, think again.

AUTOADVERT
Marv
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6/25/2010  3:12 PM
Then why was a player chosen at 8 last year who apparently had no place in mda's system?
BRIGGS
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6/25/2010  3:12 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/25/2010  3:17 PM
rvwink wrote:The story of Toney Douglas last year, is that player who spent his college career playing shooting guard, committed to making himself into an NBA point guard. While he remains a work in progress, he did manage to make enough progress last year, to beat out the Knicks other two point guards, who spent years playing the point.

The people who don't like Andy Rautin's game at shooting guard, may be unaware that this year the Knicks drafted another point guard conversion project. Andy is also an intelligent player, who shoots threes about 2 percentage points more accurately than Toney, is also a good passer, is substantially taller than Toney, and is also enthusiastic about playing defense. Those that think that Andy Rautin is not a serious contender to eventually become a starter for the Knicks at some future point, are not paying close enough attention imo.

The recipe for players who will fit D'Antoni's system properly includes capable outside shooting, unselfish efficient passing, and high basketball IQ. I find it not a coincidence that the Phoenix Suns, who play similarly to the Knicks, also had an interest in Fields. The reason the Knick's two draft picks were not all that popular with most of the assorted draft guru's is because they are being hand picked to have the attributes that Mike prizes. So who knows more about which players will fit well in the Knick's system, the Draft Guru's, or Mike D'Antoni? If you think the Draft Express knows more about what players will fit better in the Knicks system, than Mike D'Antoni, think again.


thats fine but MDA ssytem isnt going to work without a superstar at every position like they had in Phoenix Rautins= a bigger Roberson and you win in the nBA with defense and rebounding

RIP Crushalot😞
BRIGGS
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6/25/2010  3:24 PM
Hey Rvwink--How do the Knicks match up with the Nets frontcourt?-
RIP Crushalot😞
crzymdups
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6/25/2010  3:28 PM
BRIGGS wrote:Hey Rvwink--How do the Knicks match up with the Nets frontcourt?-

just wait'll we sign rudy gay to play center! then you'll see the glory of MDA's system!!1

¿ △ ?
BRIGGS
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6/25/2010  3:28 PM
Andy Rautins is going to save the Knicks. This is the exact mentality of why we will continue to win 30 games.
RIP Crushalot😞
Paladin55
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6/25/2010  3:29 PM
Marv wrote:Then why was a player chosen at 8 last year who apparently had no place in mda's system?

A paucity to big men in Hill's draft, but Walsh/MDA must have seen Hill as a 6'10" kid with the ability to run the floor, block some shots, and hit open jumpers.

They seemed to know that he was raw but took him anyway. I think they saw that it was going to take longer than expected for him to thrive in the system, and decided to let him go so we could clear Jeffries' contract and be able to have the $$ for two max contracts, which seems to be the only reason a guy like Lebron would come here given our somewhat light roster.

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
crzymdups
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6/25/2010  3:29 PM
Paladin55 wrote:
Marv wrote:Then why was a player chosen at 8 last year who apparently had no place in mda's system?

A paucity to big men in Hill's draft, but Walsh/MDA must have seen Hill as a 6'10" kid with the ability to run the floor, block some shots, and hit open jumpers.

They seemed to know that he was raw but took him anyway. I think they saw that it was going to take longer than expected for him to thrive in the system, and decided to let him go so we could clear Jeffries' contract and be able to have the $$ for two max contracts, which seems to be the only reason a guy like Lebron would come here given our somewhat light roster.

they took him because they literally had no backup plan if Stephen Curry wasn't there.

¿ △ ?
Markji
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6/25/2010  4:23 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/25/2010  4:25 PM
crzymdups wrote:
Paladin55 wrote:
Marv wrote:Then why was a player chosen at 8 last year who apparently had no place in mda's system?

A paucity to big men in Hill's draft, but Walsh/MDA must have seen Hill as a 6'10" kid with the ability to run the floor, block some shots, and hit open jumpers.

They seemed to know that he was raw but took him anyway. I think they saw that it was going to take longer than expected for him to thrive in the system, and decided to let him go so we could clear Jeffries' contract and be able to have the $$ for two max contracts, which seems to be the only reason a guy like Lebron would come here given our somewhat light roster.

they took him because they literally had no backup plan if Stephen Curry wasn't there.

That is just not a true statement. Their back-up plan was to go with the best player available, whom they and almost all of the mock drafts, had evaluated as Jordan Hill. Once I saw Jordan Hill in SL, I blasted them for picking him. But that, at least, was their plan.

Also, I agree with RV - with the evaluation of Rautins altho I liked Toney Douglas better. But will wait and see. Let them play in SL and then comment.

The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
nixluva
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6/25/2010  4:58 PM
Hill's game was basically what you'd want in a big for MDA. I don't see how you can think that he was not a guy that they thought could fit. He just wasn't at the stage of development they wanted. He was worth a look tho. Suppose he really caught on early and played up to his potential? You can't know that until you bring a player in and work with them. Scouting can only tell you so much. 6-10, long, athletic, can run, finish and has a jumper... yeah that's pretty much what you want. The thing is that raw skills don't mean they can put it all together. That's why I liked Sergio Rodriguez' skill set, but his mental approach wasn't up to the level needed. Still seeing the raw skills made him worth a look. Sergio could push the ball like we needed, could get to the hole, had great court vision, but he couldn't seem to put all those tools together. Hill kind of had a similar issue and they felt why wait when he's replaceable.

ie. Toney Douglas could one day put it all together and at least started to show progess on some points. Sergio didn't and IMO neither did Hill. Who knows if Andy Rautins will be able to succeed. Still you have to see what DW and MDA are trying to do. Smart, Passers, shooters that can play fast and think fast are at a premium in MDA's system. Think back to the Suns when they were good and how crisp the passing was by everyone on the team. That's what he wants here and we can get it.

Paladin55
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6/25/2010  5:21 PM
Just watched a lot of Andy Jumpshot Rautins on YouTube. If Jordan or anyone can set some decent picks, this guy is going to have some fun on offense. He comes off the pick, catches, and shoots the ball as well as anyone we have had in recent years. Actually reminds me a bit of Ray Allen at times.

Don't know if he has the ability to be on the floor for more than 20 MPG, but he is going to pad the assist numbers of some guys on the Knicks.

I recall reading that he looked stronger and quicker when he was working out for teams prior to the draft.

I am not going to say that I am in love with how we came out of the draft, and I agree with Briggs about picking up some big men (just saw that Zoubec will play for NJ in SL!) but I'm looking forward to seeing Rautins, Fields, and Jordan in the SL.

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
fishmike
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6/25/2010  5:55 PM
Rautins is a good player. He can put it on the floor, has great range on the jumper and is an excellent passer off the dribble. He's a rotation guy right out of the box. He wasnt drafted to elevate the team to 50 wins. He was drafted because he will make the team and be a solid role player off the bench, and will probably do so at the start of the season.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Vmart
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6/25/2010  6:03 PM
I like the Rautins pick. Its a solid pick he is equivalent to a Steve Kerr type player. the perfect kick the ball out to player. He will fit in well with LeBron and people forget he average 5 assists a game.
KnicksSince88
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6/25/2010  6:09 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/25/2010  6:30 PM
Im not a big college basketball watcher, but just going off his numbers I think Rautins shooting touch is being vastly overrated. Entering his senior season he was just a 35.8% career 3 point shooter behind the COLLEGE line. highly average. Had his best year this year as a senior (.407 from downtown) to bring him up to 37% for his college career from three, 39% overall from the floor over the 4 years. Hes an average FT shooter. Why is his shooting touch being compared with guys like Steve Kerr and Ray Allen? Not from the same planet. Toney Douglas posted better shooting numbers in college ACROSS THE BOARD. From three, from the floor, from the foul line. Douglas is a better shooter, better athlete, better defender. They're different players, Rautins won't be in the nba in 5 years, Douglas will. Rautins not a good enough shooter to stick around in the league based just on his ability to shoot. We're not talking about a pure knockdown shooter here. Im not sure he has a single skill that is any better than average at the next level, including shooting

Guy was a 4 year role player basically who shot 39% from the floor for his career, lets not expect much of anything

JesseDark
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6/25/2010  6:13 PM
amen to that.
BRIGGS wrote:
rvwink wrote:The story of Toney Douglas last year, is that player who spent his college career playing shooting guard, committed to making himself into an NBA point guard. While he remains a work in progress, he did manage to make enough progress last year, to beat out the Knicks other two point guards, who spent years playing the point.

The people who don't like Andy Rautin's game at shooting guard, may be unaware that this year the Knicks drafted another point guard conversion project. Andy is also an intelligent player, who shoots threes about 2 percentage points more accurately than Toney, is also a good passer, is substantially taller than Toney, and is also enthusiastic about playing defense. Those that think that Andy Rautin is not a serious contender to eventually become a starter for the Knicks at some future point, are not paying close enough attention imo.

The recipe for players who will fit D'Antoni's system properly includes capable outside shooting, unselfish efficient passing, and high basketball IQ. I find it not a coincidence that the Phoenix Suns, who play similarly to the Knicks, also had an interest in Fields. The reason the Knick's two draft picks were not all that popular with most of the assorted draft guru's is because they are being hand picked to have the attributes that Mike prizes. So who knows more about which players will fit well in the Knick's system, the Draft Guru's, or Mike D'Antoni? If you think the Draft Express knows more about what players will fit better in the Knicks system, than Mike D'Antoni, think again.


thats fine but MDA ssytem isnt going to work without a superstar at every position like they had in Phoenix Rautins= a bigger Roberson and you win in the nBA with defense and rebounding

Bring back dee-fense
TMS
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6/25/2010  6:29 PM
Vmart wrote:I like the Rautins pick. Its a solid pick he is equivalent to a Steve Kerr type player. the perfect kick the ball out to player. He will fit in well with LeBron and people forget he average 5 assists a game.

i thought we already had a kickout 3 point shooter on the team with not so stiff legs for Lebron to play with? we also had a Derek Fisher style G in Toney Douglas who supposedly had worked hard this offseason on improving his J... so knowing that we still went & picked another 3 point shooting G even though we've had huge holes in our 2 most important areas of need for the past 2 years running? i just don't understand what the hell this organization is thinking about.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
EwingsGlass
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6/25/2010  6:36 PM
Time out, so the Knicks draft a guy like Jordan Hill, who was clearly a big man that needed to adjust to the speed of the NBA--who did not earn time early in the season but seemed to do well in Houston's slower paced system. But that is how they dealt with Hill, who nobody is calling a bust except for the people on this board (who of course is a future all star now that he is gone)--but it begs the question: what the f--- does that have to do with Rautins?

What player available at 38 and 39 would dramatically alter the Knicks front court (Jerome Jordan, the player I thought they would take to stabilize the lack of a true 7 fter appears to be acquired).

Right now the roster has:

Gallo-- who will either grow into a starting SF/PF role but in a high octane offense, may be better suited to the sixth man role.
Chandler -- a tweener SG/SF/PF whose role is probably best as a 7th man, but could be the role player starter at SG/SF
Toney Douglas -- as defensive minded PG/SG (probably eighth man)
Bill Walker (looks like he might be the real deal in the sense of a roleplaying starting SG)
Andy Rautins (a PG/SG 9th or 10th man)
Landry Fields (a 9th or 10th man SG/SF)
Jerome Jordan (a backup C who can give us 6 fouls per night, but a real 7 fter with growth potential. I like this kid, been pulling for him for a while)
Earl Barron (probably resigned, a backup C giving us another 6 fouls to give)
Jonathan Bender (probably resigned, a backup PF)
Eddy Curry (no need to explain)
Sergio Rodriguez (I think we retain his rights as a restricted free agent)

Thats a lot of backups

You know I gonna spin wit it
KnicksSince88
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6/25/2010  6:40 PM
Gallo in my mind is a clear NBA starter. I don't get why hes better suited for off the bench. I think he has an all star ceiling, health is going to play a big role in whether or not he hits that ceiling

You will see a big jump in Gallo's game this offseason, now that he has a summer to actually work on things for the first time in 2 years because he doesn't have to worry about exerting all his time into taking care of his back. When you have an injury like he did, especially as a younger player, it could be a double whammy because you miss an offseason of growth and working on your game. I thought his season last year was as good as could be expected given his situation. He's going to have a normal summer now for the first time as a pro

nixluva
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6/25/2010  7:53 PM
We were in the 2nd rd. I wanted them to take a Big and was initially disappointed, but then it turns out that DW did in fact buy a pick as I expected. So I fail to see what the problem is. People don't like Rautins or Fields and feel they were a reach, but in the 2nd rd how is any player a reach if he fits what you feel you need? There are no real locks in he 2nd rd, so if you think you have a role player that fits a need and you think will stick then it's a good pick. I think they feel confident that all 3 guys can stick. These were pretty safe picks. The guys aren't bad players just not high upside guys. What you see is what you get. That's fine for the 2nd rd. I thought they'd try to go after a player with more upside and in the end I think they did with Jordan. He's no where near done developing IMO. He got a late start and can easily get stronger. So DW took some safe guys for the rotation and a rotation C with upside. Maybe not the upside of Hassan Whiteside, but that's OK.
Vmart
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6/25/2010  8:20 PM
TMS wrote:
Vmart wrote:I like the Rautins pick. Its a solid pick he is equivalent to a Steve Kerr type player. the perfect kick the ball out to player. He will fit in well with LeBron and people forget he average 5 assists a game.

i thought we already had a kickout 3 point shooter on the team with not so stiff legs for Lebron to play with? we also had a Derek Fisher style G in Toney Douglas who supposedly had worked hard this offseason on improving his J... so knowing that we still went & picked another 3 point shooting G even though we've had huge holes in our 2 most important areas of need for the past 2 years running? i just don't understand what the hell this organization is thinking about.

Ok fine a vujacic type of player. You can never have to many of the shooters when and if the major pieces get placed.

Andy Rautins and Toney Douglas

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