but what we gave up is a hedge to another avenue to improve the team. We did the same kind of trade that killed us over the last few years. That is why we are the worst run team $ for $ in pro sports.

What was wrong with our large supply of cap space--didn't we consider the possibility we couldve done a S+T as well as just have cap space--we gave that up in the Jefferies trade--. Just a panic stricken trade that was not well thought out. Someone came up with the brilliant idea that we were going to steal Toney Douglas late because he was superior to all of the PGs who went before him . I wonder if its a different situation with B Jennings here right now?

I know sour milk but what else can you say---how about a plan where we spend money on a proven young up and coming GM like Sam Presti and let him do what he thinks is right. D walsh seems like a nice guy but it was a mistake to hire him because he provides no stability--he is out of here asap.

Vmart wrote:If the Knicks don't get LeBron or a high price FAs to come do you guys think that Walsh will buy multiple pick into the first round. I can see that happening.

The draft comes before the FA race begins- Walsh will not be sure of what is going to be happening with James, Bosh, etc., on draft day.

I think he actually mentioned the fact that the draft comes first- I assume that he was wishing that FA period came first, so you could then draft based what you got in FA.

We wouldnt have had to pin all our hopes on Lebron. We could have signed one free agent and been a playoff team, with Jeffries and Curry coming off the books to add to the team.

I don't really see how the draft route would've helped us much. We didn't have a 1st rounder and Hill in DW's opinion was worth more to him as a way to clear enough cap for two max FA's. I don't think he or MDA felt that they wanted to wait for Hill to develop. It may not be the case that they felt he'd NEVER develop, but they just didn't want to wait. What if it took 2 more years for him to get to his full potential? Meanwhile using him in a trade to replace him with say, BOSH, makes a ton of sense!!! You can't just look at the decision in reference to "if we don't" get a FA. There are so many FA's available that we know we're gonna get someone at this point and it just might be the top guys on our list, but even if not, there are a ton of acceptable options outside of that. The draft pick we gave up in the form of Hill is unfortunate, but at this point it's what it is and we have the space to go after 2 TOP TIER players that we didn't have before. I don't regret that at all.

Vmart wrote:If the Knicks don't get LeBron or a high price FAs to come do you guys think that Walsh will buy multiple pick into the first round. I can see that happening.

LOL Draft happens before Free Agency? Are you implying our GM waiting until 2011 to buy picks?

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:I don't really see how the draft route would've helped us much. We didn't have a 1st rounder and Hill in DW's opinion was worth more to him as a way to clear enough cap for two max FA's. I don't think he or MDA felt that they wanted to wait for Hill to develop. It may not be the case that they felt he'd NEVER develop, but they just didn't want to wait. What if it took 2 more years for him to get to his full potential? Meanwhile using him in a trade to replace him with say, BOSH, makes a ton of sense!!! You can't just look at the decision in reference to "if we don't" get a FA. There are so many FA's available that we know we're gonna get someone at this point and it just might be the top guys on our list, but even if not, there are a ton of acceptable options outside of that. The draft pick we gave up in the form of Hill is unfortunate, but at this point it's what it is and we have the space to go after 2 TOP TIER players that we didn't have before. I don't regret that at all.

how do you think the draft route wouldn't have helped us much when traditionally teams that have won championships in the past have all used the draft as a major component towards building their teams? so wait, 2 potential lottery picks in the next 3 years couldn't have helped? the Knicks weren't willing to wait for Jordan Hill to develop, but they were willing to wait for Gallo to develop? how does that work? when we took Gallo they were propping him up as a project with a ton of potential, which he was... now he's starting to blossom... why didn't the Knicks have the same kind of patience with Hill? because when we picked Jordan Hill i coulda sworn i heard Donnie & MDA talking glowingly about his potential too... seems to me the Rockets thought highly enough of Hill to demand he be included in that deal to take on Fishlips' contract... apparently they think that amassing young talent & draft picks gives them an edge when it comes to future trades... i happen to agree with that line of thinking... that's exactly how the Boston Celtics were able to build their championship team a couple years ago.

trading Hill to replace with Bosh does make a ton of sense, but that didn't happen here... we traded Hill to dump Fishlips' $7 million dollar salary... we have no guarantees who we're going to sign this summer... if things work out & we're able to sign Lebron & Bosh then the plan worked out perfectly... if we get rejected by all the top names in free agency then the plan was an abject failure... i don't get how people can call things a success before we even know the outcome.

How many teams are in the lottery year after yr and never reach the finals? No gurantees man! Anyway they took a look at Hill and decided to turn him into more cap space. If he actually exploded this year he'd still be here. They didn't feel like waiting on him and then sitting out this draft and waiting another year of losing just try the draft in 2011. Then wait on that pick too! If we had a Durant then there'd be a reason to show more patience.

If we fail this off season to sign Lebron and 1 - whether that 1 is Bosh, Amare, Dirk or whomever not named Joe Johnson- then how many years are we set back?

When does Dolan hit rock bottom?

I am convinced that his addictive personality is driving the franchise in largely the same method and direction as it did his life when he was boozing and snorting.

Potentially, your looking at another 5+ years of garbage basketball.

Paladin55 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Vmart wrote:If the Knicks don't get LeBron or a high price FAs to come do you guys think that Walsh will buy multiple pick into the first round. I can see that happening.

I dont Vmart--first off the draft is sketchy. Secondly theyve gone this far--they are going to go all the way.

I think that he will buy into the late first round if it is possible and a guy he liked in a workout is there who he really wants, but thinks will go before our second Rnd picks. We have last year's Douglas pick as an example to learn from, and there have been enough rumors around to make me think he will buy in if he feels it can help the team.

Also sends a message to potential FAs that he is going to be proactive.

I agree with Paladin here. Not only do I think they're very much interested in buying into the late first round but if they're smart, they'll look to do it as many as 3X. Why the hell not?!? I'm mean I can't for the life of me see how we could have a more conservative approach at this point in time... Our backs are against the wall. We needs to come out swinging for the fences in this draft, guns blazing, looking to do the absolute best we possibly can for ourselves...The draft is our first and last chance to make a splash before free agency hits. Max the **** out of it....The draft is sketchy?? How's that?? Someone please explain that to me...This draft goes 50 deep easy. Probably deeper in fact BUT as deep as it is, odds are better players will be available 24-30 than at 38/39 & beyond (even a regular Joe fan like myself can see that that's the case), esp. players that Walsh & co. feel might be the better fits for the team they envision. Why on Earth would Walsh want to see better players, esp. if they're guys he and D'Antoni like and are convinced are good fits and could help us, go before he has a chance to pick when all he has to do is swing some small deals to move up a little? I even think there will be viable players left out of the draft entirely, guys I'll be interested in bringing to SL instead of the usual retreads/summer roster filler we usually bring in (bigs like Vandy's skilled AJ Ogilvy and Rutgers' 7 foot shot-blocker Hamady N'Diaye, a guy we just worked out incidently, might not even get drafted for example). Like every year there will be several nice-looking players that go undrafted I'm sure, perhaps even more than in years past, but that by no means is an excuse to sit back and accept picking 38 & 39. I have faith they understand this and will do what it takes on draft night to come out on top..

And again, to dispel the myth that we can't add multiple 1st rounders, all you have to do is do the math --- all indications are the cap will be $56.1 million next year. The 5 definites we'll be moving forward with at this point (Curry, Gallo, Chandler, TD and in all likelihood Bill Walker) all total a little over $18M in salary for next year. Now even with 2 max. players at $17M apiece for $34M total (which is a high-ball figure but just for arguments sake) that comes to approx. $52.5-53M. That leaves in the neighborhood of $3.5 mil. to use on the draft. Judging by last year, picks in the 24-30 range went from $1.12M to right around $990,000k in terms of starting NBA salary (and those figures could be even less for next year - as the cap ceiling comes down, the rookie salary scale may drop as well). I'm not talking about adding multiple lottery picks here (that would require moving out Gallo &/or Chandler's salaries, something I wouldn't be opposed to in the right scenario btw), I'm talking feasible move-ups about 15-20 slots to get better players AND/OR the players we want. And hey, with around $3.5M to spare, we actually have the room to add a higher pick or two than 24-30 considering the capholds..I just continuely bring up the 24-30 range because those are the picks that are gererally for sale.. Paladin just talked about being procative and I agree it's something we need to be. The room is there to add multiple 1st rounders. Go for it. I don't see it any other way fellas. Not only is the cap room there but the extra money to help purchase these picks should be there as well -- Jimmy Dolan saved a ton of money when Cuttino Mobley retired. I don't consider that FA money - Dolan was prepared to spend big on free-agency anyway, even for Garden renovations. I consider this Mobley money found money. Bonus money. That money should be spent on this draft. Case closed.. If you're a big-time Knick fan, you can't possible view our approach on this draft any differently...

Walsh has said it a million times that he did not want to trade hill, but the cap space and the strong possiblity to sign TWO max players (better idea). Gallo is taylor made for MDA's system, JORDAN HILL is a PROJECT, he may turn out to be better then expected, 3 years from now. But Cmon, it's been 10 years since we have even been relevent. IMO Walsh did the right thing, everybody is sick of the losing... were still hering grumbles in the wings about our suspect roster despite the abilty to sign two max players..WTF..JORDAN HILL and a late draft pick for 12 mill..