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In DEFENSE of my man D'Antoni
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nixluva
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6/1/2010  6:49 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/1/2010  6:55 PM
I've been at constant war with many fans all over the internet in regards to MDA as our coach.
The one big gripe fans talk about is that they think he's not focused enough on D. Fair enough,
it's not his thing to go hard on D and practically ignore offense like some coaches have done. JVG, LB,
Mike Brown etc. Thing is tho there was this rush to bash MDA when Gentry was given credit for coaching
more defense than MDA and his Suns team being better on D than MDA's. I find this to be only part true.
There was a focus on D from Gentry, I only dispute the idea that they were MUCH better as some have protested.

Here are some articles that refute these general assumptions about MDA.

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-yorkknicks/post/_/id/75/defending-dantonis-d

Another D’Antoni Myth…
May 7th, 2010 by Dan L.
There’s another myth that fans like to point to when complaining about Coach D’Antoni. To prove that D’Antoni
is a bad coach, they often fall back on the argument that: “The Suns play better defense under Gentry than they
did under D’Antoni.”

False.

Let’s just look at the numbers, because they represent empirical fact. Whereas opinions conflict, even those of
players (some have stated that there is more of a defensive focus in Phoenix now, like Amar’e and Grant Hill.
Others have said that D’Antoni does coach defense, like Jarred Jeffries).

All of these numbers come from basketball-reference.com.

Mike D’Antoni’s Suns:

Opponents FG%:

04-05: .445

05-06: .454

06-07: .457

07-08: .456

Points Allowed Per 100 Possessions:

04-05: 107.1

05-06: 105.8

06-07: 106.4

07-08: 108.1

Alvin Gentry’s Suns:

Opponents FG%:

09-10: .452

Points Allowed Per 100 Possessions:

09-10: 115.3

***

These numbers speak for themselves. The D’Antoni Suns were as good or better than the Gentry Suns on defense.
The D’Antoni Knicks? Admittedly putrid on defense, but lacking in talent compared to what he had on the Suns.

Then there is this article:

Defending D'Antoni's D
June, 1, 2010

By Tom Haberstroh
During Donnie Walsh's appearance on 1050's McDonald and Tierney show last Friday, he was asked whether coach
Mike D’Antoni needs help on the bench. This brings up a provocative topic.

Brandon Tierney: "Are you thinking about, or moving in the direction of, hiring a defensive coach to supplement
what Mike D’Antoni does very well [offensively]?"

Walsh: "If you’re judging it on the Knicks teams, we did not have a team that had the personnel to play good
defense, so nine-tenths of the problem was right there. And it depends on how you judge defense. If you’re gonna
talk about how many points the team gives up playing when it’s playing a fast-paced game, that’s not the proper
way to judge a defense for a fast-paced team. And that is the way most of the NBA teams are ranked -- how many
points you give up in a game. If you look at Mike’s differential, how many points he scored versus how many
points he give up, it’s a completely different picture. And we have further stats for that ... We’re just not
accepting that Mike’s not a good defensive coach because everybody’s writing it now."

Walsh isn’t spewing propaganda to stick up for his coach; he’s absolutely right. The Suns teams under D’Antoni
had the right personnel for his system. They sure played fast, but they weren’t horrid defensive teams as they
were generally labeled by the media. In fact, all four of his full-season Suns teams were better defensively
than the one Alvin Gentry had in the Western Conference finals this year.

It all comes down to tempo. Critics were quick to point out that D’Antoni’s offenses weren’t that good because
his fast-paced play skewed the outrageous per-game numbers, but those same critics conveniently ignored the flipside
of that equation: his defense wasn’t that bad, either.

Faster pace leads to more scoring opportunities but to properly grade a defense, one should look at the rate at
which the other teams scored. To do that, we call upon a statistic called Defensive Rating (DRtg) which adjusts
for "pace" (a team's possessions per game) and measures how many points a team allows per 100 possessions.

PACING THEMSELVES

When the numbers are adjusted using Defensive Rating, D'Antoni's Phoenix teams don't look all that bad defensively.

Season Pace Rank D-Rtg Rank PPG Allowed Rank
2007-08 96.7 4th 108.1 16th 105.0 25th
2006-07 95.6 3rd 106.4 13th 102.9 23rd
2005-06 95.8 1st 105.8 16th 102.8 28th
2004-05 95.9 1st 107.1 17th 103.3 Last


If anything, D’Antoni’s defenses were no better or worse than average once you consider their affinity for stepping
on the gas. And armed with a juggernaut offense, that’s all a team really needs.

To be fair to D’Antoni, his time in New York has been marred by roster turnover and his personnel were never defensively
motivated. It’s a hard task for any NBA coach to get his team to play defense, but it’s virtually impossible if that team
employs defensive matadors like David Lee, Tracy McGrady, Larry Hughes, Nate Robinson and Eddie House. If Walsh can find
the right ingredients this summer, D’Antoni could have a winning recipe for years to come.

All of this I post to say that I think when we give this coach a real team, he should have more success in getting players
to buy in and execute what he wants on D. Perhaps even more so than what he had in PHX. Talent makes a huge diff in what any
coach accomplishes and even more so on D.

AUTOADVERT
TheGame
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6/2/2010  6:00 AM
Dude, the Knicks stink on defense, and in two years, I have not seen MDA make any significant improvements in that area. We had players from other teams laughing at our lack of defensive preparedness. THat is on the coach. I don't care about stats. I care about what I see on the court, and what I saw was a cluster f**k on defense all year long.
Trust the Process
fishmike
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6/2/2010  7:49 AM
TheGame wrote:Dude, the Knicks stink on defense, and in two years, I have not seen MDA make any significant improvements in that area. We had players from other teams laughing at our lack of defensive preparedness. THat is on the coach. I don't care about stats. I care about what I see on the court, and what I saw was a cluster f**k on defense all year long.
equally horrific on defense were Isiah's teams, Larry Brown's teams and Lenny Wilkin's teams.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
franco12
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6/2/2010  8:08 AM    LAST EDITED: 6/2/2010  8:09 AM
fishmike wrote:
TheGame wrote:Dude, the Knicks stink on defense, and in two years, I have not seen MDA make any significant improvements in that area. We had players from other teams laughing at our lack of defensive preparedness. THat is on the coach. I don't care about stats. I care about what I see on the court, and what I saw was a cluster f**k on defense all year long.
equally horrific on defense were Isiah's teams, Larry Brown's teams and Lenny Wilkin's teams.

Fish- why did MDA not go back to Larry Hughes? One good month of defense in December, and admittedly some of it related to schedule, but I think a lot had to do with the play of Larry Hughes.

And, why didn't he want to play Douglas? If MDA cared anything about defense, he would have been starting Hughes & Douglas by January.

He didn't trust the rookie? Like Duhon was doing such a good job running the team that a random fan out of the stands wouldn't have done a better job?

And lets not forget Darko who got 70 minutes before Mike soured on him, yet Kurt Rambis in Minnesota got reasonable production out of him. How much better would Lee have looked at the 4 vs. undersized as a 5?

If MDA really cared that much about defense, he maybe would have swallowed whatever it was that kept him from using potentially 3 of his better defensive pieces.

And mind you, two of them - Hughes & Douglas- were on occasion able to put up good #'s from the offensive side of the ball.

Think back to Don Chaney- and what line up do you think he would have gone with? He would have played it close to the vest on offense and kept the effort up on D to keep them in the game.

Marv
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6/2/2010  8:15 AM
franco12 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
TheGame wrote:Dude, the Knicks stink on defense, and in two years, I have not seen MDA make any significant improvements in that area. We had players from other teams laughing at our lack of defensive preparedness. THat is on the coach. I don't care about stats. I care about what I see on the court, and what I saw was a cluster f**k on defense all year long.
equally horrific on defense were Isiah's teams, Larry Brown's teams and Lenny Wilkin's teams.

Fish- why did MDA not go back to Larry Hughes? One good month of defense in December, and admittedly some of it related to schedule, but I think a lot had to do with the play of Larry Hughes.

And, why didn't he want to play Douglas? If MDA cared anything about defense, he would have been starting Hughes & Douglas by January.

He didn't trust the rookie? Like Duhon was doing such a good job running the team that a random fan out of the stands wouldn't have done a better job?

And lets not forget Darko who got 70 minutes before Mike soured on him, yet Kurt Rambis in Minnesota got reasonable production out of him. How much better would Lee have looked at the 4 vs. undersized as a 5?

If MDA really cared that much about defense, he maybe would have swallowed whatever it was that kept him from using potentially 3 of his better defensive pieces.

And mind you, two of them - Hughes & Douglas- were on occasion able to put up good #'s from the offensive side of the ball.

Think back to Don Chaney- and what line up do you think he would have gone with? He would have played it close to the vest on offense and kept the effort up on D to keep them in the game.

when hughes came back from his injury he was putrid on the court - beyond useless. his mind and body weren’t in the game and he needed to be benched. he became a huge liability instantly and then bitched when mda had no option but to ice him.

not playing douglas was a stupid-ass move on mda's part.

fishmike
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6/2/2010  8:29 AM
Marv wrote:
franco12 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
TheGame wrote:Dude, the Knicks stink on defense, and in two years, I have not seen MDA make any significant improvements in that area. We had players from other teams laughing at our lack of defensive preparedness. THat is on the coach. I don't care about stats. I care about what I see on the court, and what I saw was a cluster f**k on defense all year long.
equally horrific on defense were Isiah's teams, Larry Brown's teams and Lenny Wilkin's teams.

Fish- why did MDA not go back to Larry Hughes? One good month of defense in December, and admittedly some of it related to schedule, but I think a lot had to do with the play of Larry Hughes.

And, why didn't he want to play Douglas? If MDA cared anything about defense, he would have been starting Hughes & Douglas by January.

He didn't trust the rookie? Like Duhon was doing such a good job running the team that a random fan out of the stands wouldn't have done a better job?

And lets not forget Darko who got 70 minutes before Mike soured on him, yet Kurt Rambis in Minnesota got reasonable production out of him. How much better would Lee have looked at the 4 vs. undersized as a 5?

If MDA really cared that much about defense, he maybe would have swallowed whatever it was that kept him from using potentially 3 of his better defensive pieces.

And mind you, two of them - Hughes & Douglas- were on occasion able to put up good #'s from the offensive side of the ball.

Think back to Don Chaney- and what line up do you think he would have gone with? He would have played it close to the vest on offense and kept the effort up on D to keep them in the game.

when hughes came back from his injury he was putrid on the court - beyond useless. his mind and body weren’t in the game and he needed to be benched. he became a huge liability instantly and then bitched when mda had no option but to ice him.

not playing douglas was a stupid-ass move on mda's part.

thats basically it. Hughes was benched after a handfull of games where he shot like 20%. MDA admitted not playing Douglas more was mistake.

Darko? Really? Thats a stretch. If I had any defense for MDA it would be that he played JJ a ton. Here's a guy with YMCA offensive skills but he played him starters minutes because he defended well and that zone was decent for that one good stretch. Hughes and Duhon were playing well on D also and the Knicks had a winning month.

Then Hughes went back to shooting blanks and Duhon went back to drinking and the rest is history.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
iSergio
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6/2/2010  8:57 AM
I just don't get why Mike D'Antoni's bigs never give a hard foul to prevent a layup or dunk. Each big has 6 fouls, use them!!
Marv
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6/2/2010  8:59 AM
iSergio wrote:I just don't get why Mike D'Antoni's bigs never give a hard foul to prevent a layup or dunk. Each big has 6 fouls, use them!!

i don't get why none of them has grown a moustache.

CrushAlot
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6/2/2010  9:51 AM
There is a philosophy with D'Antoni, make the other team shoot jump shots because you do not have a big to protect the paint. I don't think that is a winning philosophy and I think it is more of a product of who he wants on the floor to play offense. As far as scouting the other team and making defensive adjustments is concerned, I don't think it happens.
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6/2/2010  10:09 AM
I don't think D'Antoni is a bad defensive coach. I'd say his teams perform adequately. I do think he's had absolute trash to work with in NY. The flaw I have with D'Antoni is his adaptivity. I wish he would've come up with a gameplan to maximize his roster, but that might be asking for too much.

He's the Mike Martz of the NBA. I don't think he's an elite coach but I do think he's on the upper echelon. If he gets the right pieces I think he could win a championship. For example, I would've like the 99 team's chances better if coached instead of JVG (and I'm a big fan of JVG)

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nixluva
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6/2/2010  1:44 PM
MDA has a unique approach to D. One thing many top defensive teams do is use fouls to basically intimidate penetration. If you fail to have the angle or ability to block a shot many successful defensive coaches have employed the hard foul. It does work, but for MDA it runs counter to his offensive approach. He wants to play the % game. His teams usually are very efficient scoring the ball and since he doesn't want his team to foul a lot it leads to fewer scoring opportunities at the line for the other team. He doesn't want them taking any high % shots. FT's are at the least 75% shots. So his plan is to force teams into taking poor LONG shots and deny penetration. He wants to play fast and his defense leads to playing fast, but you still need players.

MDA wants his team to play off the ball and get into the passing lanes. This means that teams tend to have fewer assisted shots and they take more 3's or long 2's. That's also why he put a big on the PG. He doesn't want clean looks from the opposing PG. He wants bad passes which lead to tips and steals, so his team can get out and run. Now here we haven't really had enough good or dedicated defenders to make the system work, but if you give him a group that can cover ground and has length, his "prevent defense" can work. It's not meant to be a grind it out, shut down D. He doesn't want to slow the game down to a half court game. He doesn't want close games either. He wants to play out front with a lead.

LB would be perfectly happy to grind out games and history shows that his teams don't tend to have huge Point Differentials. That's his approach, but you also need the right personnel to win that way. MDA has been effective with a lot of poor defenders using his system. Just go back and look at his rosters and you can see that few of his rosters were really filled with defensive players and yet he never had a bad defensive team until he got here. MDA will never agree to a defensive coach cuz they'll likely go with traditional defensive schemes and he developed his scheme to fit his offense.

The Perfect kind of big for MDA is a guy that can move, block shots, but also is a threat to shoot. This is why a Bosh is a great fit. Lee would've been perfect if he was longer and could block shots. His lack of D is really the biggest issue tho.

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6/2/2010  9:11 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/2/2010  9:13 PM
<<
All of this I post to say that I think when we give this coach a real team, he should have more success in getting players
to buy in and execute what he wants on D. Perhaps even more so than what he had in PHX. Talent makes a huge diff in what any
coach accomplishes and even more so on D.
>>

This is a funny post

First of all if you give ANY coach a REAL team the results would definitely be different from
being mediocre to being better. Don't know why in lord's name we praising MDA in NY cause he
has done great in Phoenixland (kudos MDA) but hasnt done squat here in Knickland besides say one thing one day then same thing entirely different another day. Yes he is on a 3-5 yr plan ? Give
him time. 1st yr he got a pass. 2nd yr a pass. I aint giving him a pass 2010/11 !

We never know what's TRUE or FALSE from MDA, you pick the day he says something which we fans can
hold onto like we're working on defense and shotblocking.

Well MDA is known to like the speedup game, the 3-point shots.
MDA has no use for SIZE and doesnt like Centers whom arent David Lee types running up & down and
scoring. By the way David Lee a fine player isnt a center

Next we hear how the great MDA is so positive among the elite and stars of NBA
yet no one, let me say NO ONE Seems to wanna come to Knickerbockers for LOTS & LOTS of $$2010 money.

So figure that out!

I agree MDA can do better with few more players skilled.
But I Aint taking him off the hook for his system. We can easily compare the SUNs since they were
model of success yrs and yrs before and now AFTER MDA. Same result for similar MDA system.

I thought despite Stats given in this posts Al Gentry SUNs were far better and ya know what ?
if Phoenix Suns was so unlucky to run up into conf. finals against KOBE's killas Lakers then
if any other western team was there the SUNs perhaps advance to NBA Finals.

I doubt the same MDA coaching same SUNs team this yr woulda done more. Write it
Just a NBA fan's opinion here

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6/2/2010  9:38 PM
iSergio wrote:I just don't get why Mike D'Antoni's bigs never give a hard foul to prevent a layup or dunk. Each big has 6 fouls, use them!!

Which big are you referring to? Certainly not Lee. Harrington was too self absorbed. Gallo was kept out of the fray, protecting his back. I guess there was no one to take a cue from. Were there any flagrant fouls by the Knicks at all?

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nixluva
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6/2/2010  9:44 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/2/2010  9:48 PM
DJMUSIC See that's the problem, FACT is MDA's teams played better D!!! The Suns did worse last year and so it seems more dramatic that they decided to play some D this year. Why didn't they defend for Porter or Gentry last year? It's cool to make a big deal about emphasizing D, but there's a bias against MDA and his D. He coached it to the degree he needed to be successful and IMO he got more out of his teams than the talent would suggest. He didn't have great teams but they played great.

Why do you and others care about what MDA said the last 2 years? If he was all over the place with our permanent team I could understand, but that mess we had would make a lot of coaches crazy.

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6/3/2010  12:57 AM
nixluva wrote:DJMUSIC See that's the problem, FACT is MDA's teams played better D!!! The Suns did worse last year and so it seems more dramatic that they decided to play some D this year. Why didn't they defend for Porter or Gentry last year? It's cool to make a big deal about emphasizing D, but there's a bias against MDA and his D. He coached it to the degree he needed to be successful and IMO he got more out of his teams than the talent would suggest. He didn't have great teams but they played great.

Why do you and others care about what MDA said the last 2 years? If he was all over the place with our permanent team I could understand, but that mess we had would make a lot of coaches crazy.


In my best Herm Edward's voice he gets paid to coach the players he has, Hellooo.. .
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nixluva
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6/3/2010  3:09 AM
buddapaw wrote:
nixluva wrote:DJMUSIC See that's the problem, FACT is MDA's teams played better D!!! The Suns did worse last year and so it seems more dramatic that they decided to play some D this year. Why didn't they defend for Porter or Gentry last year? It's cool to make a big deal about emphasizing D, but there's a bias against MDA and his D. He coached it to the degree he needed to be successful and IMO he got more out of his teams than the talent would suggest. He didn't have great teams but they played great.

Why do you and others care about what MDA said the last 2 years? If he was all over the place with our permanent team I could understand, but that mess we had would make a lot of coaches crazy.


In my best Herm Edward's voice he gets paid to coach the players he has, Hellooo.. .

The Bulls had better talent and they were actually trying to win and they got to .500 and squeaked into the playoffs. Most of us didn't think we had enough talent to even make .500. I felt if everything broke right we could get there, but everything didn't break right. Still at best we end up with a mediocre team that gets bounced in the 1st rd. Tell me why we have to come down on MDA knowing DW wasn't going to do anything to improve the team if it stopped us from clearing cap. No matter how good we did DW had to clear cap in order to lure Lebron/Bosh.

DW picked MDA cuz he believed he was the right man for the new team he was gonna build in 2010!!! The last 2 years meant next to nothing. People don't want to give MDA credit for the offense in PHX... Fine but those teams defended better than most realize and the stats prove it. He did that with poor defenders like Nash n Amare up the middle. If DW gets Lebron/Bosh and someone like Tyrus or OK4 this could be the best defensive roster he's ever had. Let's see how he does with that kind of team.

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6/3/2010  11:02 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/3/2010  11:07 PM
nixluva wrote:
buddapaw wrote:
nixluva wrote:DJMUSIC See that's the problem, FACT is MDA's teams played better D!!! The Suns did worse last year and so it seems more dramatic that they decided to play some D this year. Why didn't they defend for Porter or Gentry last year? It's cool to make a big deal about emphasizing D, but there's a bias against MDA and his D. He coached it to the degree he needed to be successful and IMO he got more out of his teams than the talent would suggest. He didn't have great teams but they played great.

Why do you and others care about what MDA said the last 2 years? If he was all over the place with our permanent team I could understand, but that mess we had would make a lot of coaches crazy.


In my best Herm Edward's voice he gets paid to coach the players he has, Hellooo.. .

The Bulls had better talent and they were actually trying to win and they got to .500 and squeaked into the playoffs. Most of us didn't think we had enough talent to even make .500. I felt if everything broke right we could get there, but everything didn't break right. Still at best we end up with a mediocre team that gets bounced in the 1st rd. Tell me why we have to come down on MDA knowing DW wasn't going to do anything to improve the team if it stopped us from clearing cap. No matter how good we did DW had to clear cap in order to lure Lebron/Bosh.

DW picked MDA cuz he believed he was the right man for the new team he was gonna build in 2010!!! The last 2 years meant next to nothing. People don't want to give MDA credit for the offense in PHX... Fine but those teams defended better than most realize and the stats prove it. He did that with poor defenders like Nash n Amare up the middle. If DW gets Lebron/Bosh and someone like Tyrus or OK4 this could be the best defensive roster he's ever had. Let's see how he does with that kind of team.

Lets see,
Lets see,
Lets see

All your points are based on asumptions
We're not going to have 1/2 the players/FA you mentioned.

If we got 1/2 of those same players you still got to change your attitude "Coach" MDA
about Defense and its priority.

I dont know what the devil you see in MDA and his methods of improving NY on D
Its like someone or Star OR role player coming to NY must already be a student of Defense in NBA
cause MDA aint teaching them OR his system isnt geared for it. You can write that in stone

All in all if MDA dont change Knicks got poor chance to lure and build on something good whenver that comes.

If the great Na-Cha (no not Alexander Fu Sheng) but the Great Mike D'Antonio was so great an all around coach he'd teach David Lee in 2+ season to be better defender and NOT Worst!

What ya gotta say about that ?

Fu Sheng:

Furthermore David Lee is giving hints of chance at leaving Knicks and not waiting
I am sure he'd go to a team whom 1) has chance Or is a playoff team or has more talent
2) to team where coach or coaches will teach defense
Lee will improve then.

That dont say much about MDA who is a fine 1 way coach. Run and shoot 3-pointers or outshoot opponents
and pass occasionally. MDA is really good at those things.

Now on defensive end he or his staff hasnt got the "Right Stuff"

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Childs2Dudley
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6/3/2010  11:09 PM
Don't call him your man. You lose a bit cred considering Isiah Thomas was also "your man".
"Our attitude toward life determines life's attitude towards us." - Earl Nightingale
DJMUSIC
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6/3/2010  11:36 PM
Childs2Dudley wrote:Don't call him your man. You lose a bit cred considering Isiah Thomas was also "your man".

Good one!
agree
LOL

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6/4/2010  12:52 AM
breaking out shaw bros flick refs... well done. maybe the knicks will be the 5 deadly venoms.
GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!!
In DEFENSE of my man D'Antoni

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