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What if Toronto wants Gallinari and Chandler back as compensation in a S+T scenario for Bosh
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BRIGGS
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5/15/2010  12:14 PM
What will the Knicks do? Chris Bosh isnt leaving 33mm on the table for the 6th year contract--in fact I think he's already said that. The Knicks cant force David Lee to go to Toronto and I seriously doubt he goes there.

If the Raptors came up with a S+T proposal for the 6year option for Gallinari and Chandler for Bosh--would you do it
What else do we have of value to give in a S+T scenario? A S+T will be what it takes to get Bosh

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AnubisADL
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5/15/2010  12:25 PM
Then I'd be saying bye bye Gallo and Chandler. If we get Lebron and Bosh then we can forget about those two guys developing.

I'd like a S&T like the following:

Bosh and Turkeyglue(SG)
For
Curry, Gallo, and Chandler

Lebron and Turkey glue would be the ball handlers allowing Douglas to start and focus on defending and scoring.

????
Bosh
James
Turkeyglue
Douglas

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Vmart
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5/15/2010  12:30 PM
Like you said that 6th year is the key. I can see the Knicks giving Lee the money. He isn't a max player but they can give him 6 years and Lee is more likely to come back rather than the Knicks getting any top notch free agent to come here. I don't see LeBron, Wade or even Bosh coming here to the Knicks. Its going to be Joe Johnson and Lee for the Knicks. They will still have money left over to sign another free agent.
CrushAlot
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5/15/2010  12:34 PM
I think Walsh does it. I am not sure if it is the right move but he has already made moves that signal he is desperate and all in.
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crzymdups
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5/15/2010  12:47 PM
BRIGGS wrote:What will the Knicks do? Chris Bosh isnt leaving 33mm on the table for the 6th year contract--in fact I think he's already said that. The Knicks cant force David Lee to go to Toronto and I seriously doubt he goes there.

If the Raptors came up with a S+T proposal for the 6year option for Gallinari and Chandler for Bosh--would you do it
What else do we have of value to give in a S+T scenario? A S+T will be what it takes to get Bosh

A) you don't know that it will take a sign and trade to get Bosh to be true. He could easily take 5 years with an opt out after 3.

B) we could offer DLee as well - it'd be the most money for DLee that way as well.

¿ △ ?
Paladin55
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5/15/2010  1:03 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/15/2010  1:05 PM
I assume that you would do this after you had gotten James? The idea of having a Bosh without James, and no Chandler and Gallo, does not seem appealing to me. I guess you would sign Lee to play with Bosh, and then wait for Melo? (On a side note, Toronto would look like the Italian national team with some of their potential lineups if they acquired Gallo.)

I could see doing something like this for James, though, since it might make him feel a little bit better about leaving the Cavs. Would not want to lose Gallo, but we benefit big time from the exchange, and James would be a potential magnet for other players to sign on with the Knicks. (Would we be able to (would people want this) sign Bosh and Lee to play with James, then- since we would be clearing out some salaries in sign and trade for James?)

I don't want to have anything to do with Hedu- you are just taking on 4 years of dead weight. He had a chance to be a leader on Toronto, but he ended up just being another guy collecting a paycheck. I would not trade him for Gallo, and probably Chandler, one for one, to be honest.

At this point, Gallinari is one of the few selling points we have for a guy like James to come over here- he needs some shooters and guys who are willing to play selfless team ball.

This is a good hypothetical post, though. How far is Walsh willing to go- how desperate is he to get the pieces he thinks we need to win and create a positive legacy for his time with the Knicks.

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TheSage
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5/15/2010  1:20 PM
NO-maybe I'm looking at with blinders but I see Gallo as having Dirk upside and Chandler developing into an above average player with a solid all around game. Bosh is a fine player but not worth that sign and trade unless it means LeBron coming here. If we were to add a defensive center alongside Lee, Gallo, Chandler and either acquire a pure point or improvement from Douglas this team can be competitive.
Nalod
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5/15/2010  1:22 PM
Your basically giveing up Dlee (he gotta walk), gallo and Chandler for Bosh?

Im not sure I'd do that trade but thats what we give up.

Finestrg
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5/15/2010  2:16 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/15/2010  9:50 PM
Look I want the guy bad, but if Bosh is insistent on that 6th year and the only way to get him is in fact through a S&T, I'd immediately switch gears and look to bring David Lee back. That still remains a big option for us w/o any strings attached... I like Bosh a lot but re-signing Lee might make more sense to me than giving up two key players for Bosh, if that's how this thing's gonna go... There are factors here though -- this is assuming Bosh comes to this decision after he talks about the whole situation in depth with LeBron face to face AND THEN (hopefully) ALL TOGETHER with LeBron & the Knicks brass in a sit-down or at least on a conference call with everyone involved...I don't know why but I really believe LeBron winds up pulling a Shaq and comes w/o a S&T---hopefully Bosh can be convinced to go the same route. I think LeBron looks to be the same type of pioneer Shaq was when he bolted for Hollywood.. But hey if we can't secure Bosh, I might immediately return focus to David Lee and then try to convince LeBron that Lee can offer similar production to Bosh. It really wouldn't take much convincing too (yeah Bosh is a little better than Lee but right now, Lee's ours - he wouldn't require us to surrender anyone in order to bring him back & he probably won't require a max deal - hopefully LeBron understands these all-important factors. The proof is in the pudding regarding Lee. He was an all-star this year, a legit 20/10 guy now...If LeBron goes for it (a big if because gun to my head I still think Bosh would be more appealing to him) that might be the best way to go. Fact of the matter is Lee DOES IN FACT supply similar production to Bosh and by re-upping Lee instead of trading for Bosh we'd not only retain Chandler & Gallo BUT WE'D ALSO have some money left over to utilize on another minor FA or two (possibly a CJ Watson, Amir Johnson, someone like that...). I'm not interested in surrendering Gallo & Chandler for Bosh, although I'm not opposed to dealing them for other players once we max out on FA...For Bosh though, as of right now I say no. Just bring back Lee. That's how I feel right now but it's still early and I reserve the right to change my opinion as things progress. Gallo AND Chandler for Bosh is way too much to give up when you have Lee there to sign as an awesome (not to mention very comparable) plan B for a big man.

A couple of factors on why I think Bosh could be convinced to come on a Knicks max offer (5-year deal, no S&T):
(1) If LeBron did it and convinced him to do the same to come play with him.
(2) He was disrespected by Bryan Colangelo very early in the season when Colangelo came out and questioned publicly whether or not Bosh was even a max player and worth a max deal.
(3) I don't necessarily buy into this whole "he'd be leaving $30-something million on the table" by not going back to Toronto for a full 6-year deal. I think there's some misconception here. At first glance this appears to be a major factor against but if you really look at it, that's not really the case. You figure Bosh [or any major FA such as LeBron] signs the 5 year deal with another club with an opt out after 4. At that time, they re-negotiate and extend their deals. Even if contracts come crashing down with the new CBA as we've been hearing, it still wouldn't be $30 million left on the table. It probably wouldn't even be half that amount...Salary-wise, he'll make his money. And if the team's winning, like LeBron, he'll have his endorsement opportunities in NY as well.. Remember a big reason why D Lee hasn't had many endorsement opportunities to speak of is because the team sucks. Period. Who in their right mind wants to spend big money to endorse a lousy product? Things would change big-time if the team started winning. I really believe that -- look at the facts - people still decide to show up and pay for tickets at least during this drought for years..Everytime you turn around, the Knicks are still selling out home games on a regular basis. That's gotta say something...
(4) Does he really love living in relative obscurity in Toronto? Not only is he completely off the radar there (he's in another country for God's sake), he pays a lot more income tax than he would here (at least at the moment), and his team's really not that great anyway with virtually no opportunity cap-wise to improve. With Bosh coming back they're already topping $63 million next year. Even if they re-negotiated a new deal starting in the $15 mil. range (low ball) to save the team a few million it wouldn't matter, they're still well over...Their only real opportunity to improve the team would be through trades -- now ask yourself, who really would want guys like Turkoglu, Bargnani, Jose Calderon and their contracts? Those guys aren't difference makers for the amount of money that's owed to them..The kid DeRozan has some nice upside and some decent value in a trade package I guess but to be honest, they really don't have great talent to use in a major trade. I think their talent is only so-so...That team pretty much is what it is right now. Now is that enough to keep Bosh in place?? Probably not -- that team probably needs to be gutted..
(5) As with all the major FAs, there's no better place to play when the team's rolling and winning. Donnie Walsh appears to be committed to reshaping the team into a winner as quickly as possibly.
(6) The D'Antoni factor -- forget what we all think about the guy (we've all picked the guy apart, sometimes for good reason, on some issues but all the while forgetting we've had an awful roster since he's been here -- the only real problem I've had with Mike is his refusal to play the younger guys a lot earlier than he did this past year. Other than that, I think for the most part, he's done the best he could with a terrible team), Mike D'Antoni still is a coach every major star player respects and wants to play for. They've all said as much over and over...
(7) There was an early rumor that Bosh's agent grew up on LI and is a Knicks fan but I'm having trouble confirming that now. That may have been a prior agent -- his current agent is Henry Thomas and he's based out of Chicago. If Henry Thomas indeed grew up on LI, went to Hofstra University and grew up a life-long Knicks fan...all that could be a factor. I just don't know if I have the right guy now...Anyone know if CB switched agents at sometime during the season?

I hear what you guys are saying -- yeah it'll be hard to sign CB or any major FA outright -- but there are many factors involved here, some more unusual than others, where I think the possibility remains. I'm not ready to say 'ain't gonna happen' on anything here yet..

Loconixfan
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5/15/2010  3:52 PM
Heck no! bosh won't care about those extra millions when he's winning championships with bron, gallo, and Chandler. it's not worth it because we still don't know how good gallo will get and bosh couldn't even get his team to the playoffs this year. Don't get me wrong, I want bosh bad but i think the whole point of him being a free agent is we can get him without giving anything, except dolan's dollars, up.
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sidsanders
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5/15/2010  3:55 PM
Loconixfan wrote:Heck no! bosh won't care about those extra millions when he's winning championships with bron, gallo, and Chandler. it's not worth it because we still don't know how good gallo will get and bosh couldn't even get his team to the playoffs this year. Don't get me wrong, I want bosh bad but i think the whole point of him being a free agent is we can get him without giving anything, except dolan's dollars, up.

if he wants 6 yrs now, that isnt correct. lbj will have to convince him to take the shorter deal, and thats if lbj arrives.

GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!!
Loconixfan
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5/15/2010  4:08 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/15/2010  4:13 PM
sidsanders wrote:
Loconixfan wrote:Heck no! bosh won't care about those extra millions when he's winning championships with bron, gallo, and Chandler. it's not worth it because we still don't know how good gallo will get and bosh couldn't even get his team to the playoffs this year. Don't get me wrong, I want bosh bad but i think the whole point of him being a free agent is we can get him without giving anything, except dolan's dollars, up.

if he wants 6 yrs now, that isnt correct. lbj will have to convince him to take the shorter deal, and thats if lbj arrives.

Bron said he'll probably do another 3-4 yr deal does that affect the money bosh could get at all?

Either way bosh will be left with the question: which is more important winning or money? If it's money stay in Toronto but if it's winning tell lebron to meet you at Madison ave and start your dynasty.

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BRIGGS
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5/15/2010  5:26 PM
Loconixfan wrote:Heck no! bosh won't care about those extra millions when he's winning championships with bron, gallo, and Chandler. it's not worth it because we still don't know how good gallo will get and bosh couldn't even get his team to the playoffs this year. Don't get me wrong, I want bosh bad but i think the whole point of him being a free agent is we can get him without giving anything, except dolan's dollars, up.

upwards of 35mm $ left on the table? I don't know about you but I would NOT take LESS.

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Nalod
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5/15/2010  5:48 PM
can't you give bosh an extension down the road?

Also, It does not matter whose agent went to Hoftstra and or who got his first Blow job at Roosevelt field! ITs big money.

Dlee, Chandler, Gallo > Bosh

Not even a thought otherwise.

And if its Sign and trade Bosh could end up in many places. Rockets can sign him, Dallas could do a package (Bosh from Texas)and even orlando could move for him. Phuck Lebron, Park Bosh next to Dwight and they tear it up! Im not saying that happens, but we could lose our minds and absorb Rashard lewis in a 3 way. I hope not. Just saying.........This is gonna get crazy!

sidsanders
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5/15/2010  6:34 PM
Nalod wrote:can't you give bosh an extension down the road?

Also, It does not matter whose agent went to Hoftstra and or who got his first Blow job at Roosevelt field! ITs big money.

Dlee, Chandler, Gallo > Bosh

Not even a thought otherwise.

And if its Sign and trade Bosh could end up in many places. Rockets can sign him, Dallas could do a package (Bosh from Texas)and even orlando could move for him. Phuck Lebron, Park Bosh next to Dwight and they tear it up! Im not saying that happens, but we could lose our minds and absorb Rashard lewis in a 3 way. I hope not. Just saying.........This is gonna get crazy!

the potential labor issues may weigh in on where/how long guys sign. if the players union buckles again, im going after as long a contract as i can, from the players view.

GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!!
sebstar
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5/15/2010  6:46 PM
who else would play with Lebron and Bosh?...'cause the only way we do that deal is if Lebron is on board.
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Olbrannon
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5/15/2010  7:20 PM
BRIGGS wrote:What will the Knicks do? Chris Bosh isnt leaving 33mm on the table for the 6th year contract--in fact I think he's already said that. The Knicks cant force David Lee to go to Toronto and I seriously doubt he goes there.

If the Raptors came up with a S+T proposal for the 6year option for Gallinari and Chandler for Bosh--would you do it
What else do we have of value to give in a S+T scenario? A S+T will be what it takes to get Bosh

In a word...N-O.

Here is why.
Bosh=max or 16+ millions
Lee= say 10 Millions
---------------------
6+ millions to spend on players of choice and I keep Gallo and Chan

I'd be looking to do a S&T with Lee for Bosh throw 'em 3 mill and a 2nd round pick for Bosh and their first round pick.
Might go 5 or more depending where their lottery pick winds up.

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iSergio
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5/15/2010  7:34 PM
I don't know where BRIGGS comes up with these ideas. :smh:

At worst, it will be Eddy Curry and Wilson Chandler for Chris Bosh and Hedo Turkoglu. But I think Toronto should be content with just Curry for Bosh and Hedo. No other team would be willing to take on Hedo's contract. And the Raptors can use Rasputia's expiring contract in February to find a replacement for Bosh. But never will S&T conversations start or even get close to a package of Chandler AND Danilo Gallinari. That's just insane and another attempt by BRIGGS to fuel his ego and agenda. Again :smh:

Pharzeone
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5/15/2010  7:57 PM
iSergio wrote:I don't know where BRIGGS comes up with these ideas. :smh:

At worst, it will be Eddy Curry and Wilson Chandler for Chris Bosh and Hedo Turkoglu. But I think Toronto should be content with just Curry for Bosh and Hedo. No other team would be willing to take on Hedo's contract. And the Raptors can use Rasputia's expiring contract in February to find a replacement for Bosh. But never will S&T conversations start or even get close to a package of Chandler AND Danilo Gallinari. That's just insane and another attempt by BRIGGS to fuel his ego and agenda. Again :smh:

Colangelo joking said he would start with Gallinari when NY reporters asked him about a trade for Bosh. They turned AR for Bosh and their lotto pick. So basically, the Raptors said no thanks to AR (when he was talked about as being the next big) and pick that turned out to be Steph Curry for Bosh. Somehow, I think it is going to take a lot more than Curry and Chandler. They will have immediate cap space when Bosh just walks a way. So....what's the point of adding Curry?

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iSergio
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5/15/2010  8:02 PM
Pharzeone wrote:
iSergio wrote:I don't know where BRIGGS comes up with these ideas. :smh:

At worst, it will be Eddy Curry and Wilson Chandler for Chris Bosh and Hedo Turkoglu. But I think Toronto should be content with just Curry for Bosh and Hedo. No other team would be willing to take on Hedo's contract. And the Raptors can use Rasputia's expiring contract in February to find a replacement for Bosh. But never will S&T conversations start or even get close to a package of Chandler AND Danilo Gallinari. That's just insane and another attempt by BRIGGS to fuel his ego and agenda. Again :smh:

Colangelo joking said he would start with Gallinari when NY reporters asked him about a trade for Bosh. They turned AR for Bosh and their lotto pick. So basically, the Raptors said no thanks to AR (when he was talked about as being the next big) and pick that turned out to be Steph Curry for Bosh. Somehow, I think it is going to take a lot more than Curry and Chandler. They will have immediate cap space when Bosh just walks a way. So....what's the point of adding Curry?

Negotiations are very different in February and in July. Either they lose Chris Bosh and are still stuck with Hedo Turkoglu or they get rid of Turkoglu and have a $11.3M expiring contract to play with. Look at basketball history. Teams do not get assets like Danilo Gallinari and Wilson Chandler when they are losing it's Star player.

What if Toronto wants Gallinari and Chandler back as compensation in a S+T scenario for Bosh

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