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How many roster holds will we have--is this rightfor example?
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BRIGGS
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5/4/2010  2:06 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/4/2010  2:07 PM
1 C-Curry 11
2 F Gallinari
3 F Chandler
4 G Douglas
5 Max FA Chris Bosh 5 years 85mm[17mm]
6 David Lee 6 years 66mm [9]
7 Bill walker 800k
8-14/15??--I would have roughly 9mm on?
RIP Crushalot😞
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fishmike
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5/4/2010  3:50 PM
you have 450k cap holds for every vacant slot and you need have 12 on the roster.
1 curry 11.2
2 lee 9
3 chandler 2.1
4 douglas 1
5 gallo 3.3
6 Bosh 17
7 Walker 0.8
8,9,10,11,12 cap holds 2.25 (450k *5)

total 46.65

amount in FA left: About $10mm

If you buy first rounders those have cap holds also. So if you buy a couple late #1s you will lose about $2mm in cap space. 2nd rounders are not guarenteed so they dont have a cap hold

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
JohnWallace44
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5/4/2010  9:57 PM
I can't imagine that we would sign Lee and Bosh. That would seem like an odd combination of softie compilers.

I'd take Lee and sign and trade him with Gallo for Dampier and Beaubois and then flip Damp for troy Muphy and the Pacers #10 pick. Use the #10 on Greg Monroe, who last year became the perfect big for this system.

Now you've got:

Beaubois/Douglas - PG
Beaubois/Douglas - SG
Walker/Chandler - SF
Chandler/Murphy - PF
Monroe - C

That's a nice group of young, fast, athletic players who can execute 7SOL and if you get one of the Max guys to come in you're going somewhere.

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
EwingsGlass
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5/4/2010  11:16 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/4/2010  11:19 PM
You can use the numbers below for your own amusement. Also, assume max contracts for 6th year players will be $16,830,000 (i.e. 30% of the cap)

	2010 Under Contract
Eddy Curry 11,276,863.00
Danilo Gallinari 3,304,560.00
Wilson Chandler 2,130,481.00
Toney Douglas 1,071,000.00
Bill Walker 854,389.00
2nd rd pick 473,604.00
2nd rd pick 473,604.00
Cap Hold 473,604.00
Cap Hold 473,604.00
Cap Hold 473,604.00
Cap Hold 473,604.00
Cap Hold 473,604.00

Under Contract 21,952,521.00
Salary Cap 56,100,000.00
Cap Space 34,147,479.00
You know I gonna spin wit it
fishmike
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5/5/2010  8:22 AM
JohnWallace44 wrote:I can't imagine that we would sign Lee and Bosh. That would seem like an odd combination of softie compilers.

I'd take Lee and sign and trade him with Gallo for Dampier and Beaubois and then flip Damp for troy Muphy and the Pacers #10 pick. Use the #10 on Greg Monroe, who last year became the perfect big for this system.

Now you've got:

Beaubois/Douglas - PG
Beaubois/Douglas - SG
Walker/Chandler - SF
Chandler/Murphy - PF
Monroe - C

That's a nice group of young, fast, athletic players who can execute 7SOL and if you get one of the Max guys to come in you're going somewhere.

dump Lee and Gallo for Troy Murphy. Good post.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
JohnWallace44
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5/5/2010  8:32 AM
You take Lee, who is not a championship piece, and Gallo who... think what you want, but I think he's fool's gold... and flip that for Beaubois who is a very fast very big combo guard who would be a perfect pairing for TD if we're going to make him a major piece going forward. You also get the #10 pick which I'm saying we would use on Monroe who is also big and fast and at a position of need... and you have Troy Murphy who would get minutes in this system and would be an asset at the deadline...

So yeah... I guess that's not as good as the "trade Curry for Rubio" posts but I do what I can.

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
fishmike
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5/5/2010  10:49 AM
sorry dude. Its weak. Troy Murphy is not a championship piece either. Beaubois looks great in really small doses. How you can judge Lee or Gallo as not championship pieces but add guys like Murphy and Beaubois is beyond me.

Size and skill wins.

Gallo is fools gold? 6'10 guy who can shoot, defend, handle, take over games and make big shots. Yes please... lets trade him for a 6'0 guard who looks great coming off the bench for a dozen or so minutes a game.

Not everyone can be Jrue Holiday

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
crzymdups
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5/5/2010  11:45 AM
fishmike wrote:you have 450k cap holds for every vacant slot and you need have 12 on the roster.
1 curry 11.2
2 lee 9
3 chandler 2.1
4 douglas 1
5 gallo 3.3
6 Bosh 17
7 Walker 0.8
8,9,10,11,12 cap holds 2.25 (450k *5)

total 46.65

amount in FA left: About $10mm

If you buy first rounders those have cap holds also. So if you buy a couple late #1s you will lose about $2mm in cap space. 2nd rounders are not guarenteed so they dont have a cap hold

Also, the weird thing about cap holds is that if you sign another guy, it kind of opens up more space. So, really, as long as they sign 12 guys, they can use those $2.25M in capholds on actual salary... meaning, as long as they sign 12 guys, in your scenario they'd have $12.25M to sign guys 8,9,10,11,12.

I guess that doesn't mean much, except maybe they could sign, say, raymond felton to $7M per and fesenko from utah to $4M per and use the remaining $1.25M to sign three minimum guys.

¿ △ ?
iSergio
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5/5/2010  11:50 AM
I've paid close attention to Kyrylo Fesenko since Briggs was hyping him up and I don't see it. He looks like a complete stiff to me. : /
crzymdups
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5/5/2010  12:18 PM
iSergio wrote:I've paid close attention to Kyrylo Fesenko since Briggs was hyping him up and I don't see it. He looks like a complete stiff to me. : /

he was just an example - but i think we do need more size on this team.

¿ △ ?
Moonangie
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5/5/2010  12:22 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/5/2010  12:22 PM
JohnWallace44 wrote:I can't imagine that we would sign Lee and Bosh. That would seem like an odd combination of softie compilers.

I'd take Lee and sign and trade him with Gallo for Dampier and Beaubois and then flip Damp for troy Muphy and the Pacers #10 pick. Use the #10 on Greg Monroe, who last year became the perfect big for this system.

Now you've got:

Beaubois/Douglas - PG
Beaubois/Douglas - SG
Walker/Chandler - SF
Chandler/Murphy - PF
Monroe - C

That's a nice group of young, fast, athletic players who can execute 7SOL and if you get one of the Max guys to come in you're going somewhere.

Wow. Just...wow. If we did that I'd have to take a long hard look at the future Brooklyn Nets.

fishmike
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5/5/2010  12:59 PM
crzymdups wrote:
fishmike wrote:you have 450k cap holds for every vacant slot and you need have 12 on the roster.
1 curry 11.2
2 lee 9
3 chandler 2.1
4 douglas 1
5 gallo 3.3
6 Bosh 17
7 Walker 0.8
8,9,10,11,12 cap holds 2.25 (450k *5)

total 46.65

amount in FA left: About $10mm

If you buy first rounders those have cap holds also. So if you buy a couple late #1s you will lose about $2mm in cap space. 2nd rounders are not guarenteed so they dont have a cap hold

Also, the weird thing about cap holds is that if you sign another guy, it kind of opens up more space. So, really, as long as they sign 12 guys, they can use those $2.25M in capholds on actual salary... meaning, as long as they sign 12 guys, in your scenario they'd have $12.25M to sign guys 8,9,10,11,12.

I guess that doesn't mean much, except maybe they could sign, say, raymond felton to $7M per and fesenko from utah to $4M per and use the remaining $1.25M to sign three minimum guys.

also, you can go over the cap to sign veterans to min. For example if you have used all your cap space and only have the 450k cap holds left to sign players you can go over signing a vet so long as its the min. For example signing Mikki Moore will cost more than Joe Crawford because Moore has been in the league for a long time, but they both count as min players against the cap.

Funny stuff.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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5/5/2010  1:01 PM
Moonangie wrote:
JohnWallace44 wrote:I can't imagine that we would sign Lee and Bosh. That would seem like an odd combination of softie compilers.

I'd take Lee and sign and trade him with Gallo for Dampier and Beaubois and then flip Damp for troy Muphy and the Pacers #10 pick. Use the #10 on Greg Monroe, who last year became the perfect big for this system.

Now you've got:

Beaubois/Douglas - PG
Beaubois/Douglas - SG
Walker/Chandler - SF
Chandler/Murphy - PF
Monroe - C

That's a nice group of young, fast, athletic players who can execute 7SOL and if you get one of the Max guys to come in you're going somewhere.

Wow. Just...wow. If we did that I'd have to take a long hard look at the future Brooklyn Nets.


if your plan is to tank as many games for the next 2 years as possible and stockpile high picks than that plan is great. Hey, 2011 is #1 protected and 2012 is top 5 protected. That plan would pretty much guarentee we get to use those picks
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
JohnWallace44
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5/5/2010  5:49 PM
Really? So a player who we don't want and is leaving anyway in Lee is worth what to you? What exactly would you expect to get back for Lee?

And Mr. "Stand around the 3pt line and hope I get hot" is key to our rebuilding because of what now?

All of the Max players are wings, so Gallo is untouchable because he's a key reserve now? Is that it?

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
fishmike
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5/5/2010  6:29 PM
JohnWallace44 wrote:Really? So a player who we don't want and is leaving anyway in Lee is worth what to you? What exactly would you expect to get back for Lee?

And Mr. "Stand around the 3pt line and hope I get hot" is key to our rebuilding because of what now?

All of the Max players are wings, so Gallo is untouchable because he's a key reserve now? Is that it?

you dont want Lee. You would rather have a kid thats 7 feet tall built like Manute Bol who is 4 years away (if he has a chance) in being an NBA player in Whiteside then keep a guy who has worked himself into an all star front court player. No matter what you say about the 3-4 systems Lee has played in he's never played with a great PG and has always been a good rebounder and shoots 55% for his career. He's an excellent ball handler, makes passes that leads to scores, plays hurt, gets better every year, added a long jump shot this year and still shot 55%. THATS a guy I want to keep around.

Knock Gallo all you want. I really dont care, nor do I have to defend him as a prospect. He's a good player with great upside on both ends of the court.

You will name Whiteside, Monroe, etc just like you harp on Holiday, Beaubois, Teague and Maynor and when 1 of those 6 guys actually sticks in the NBA you will remind us how he was your guy. Funny I dont remember you ever mentioning Collison

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
JohnWallace44
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5/5/2010  9:47 PM
Fish, "my guys" were Evans, Derozan and Holiday for last year's draft. I think I stuck to that pretty well. I liked Beaubois a lot, but if I was GM I never would have imagined him going as high as he did. All of those guys had size, speed and ability to get to the line which no Knick has.

I thought Maynor's shot was too flat and that Lawson was too small to be a starter. Didn't think Taj Gibson had upside and didn't think Blair fit the system.

Go back to the draft threads. I think I made everyone sick of my wingspan arguments when pining for Evans/Derozan/Holiday

Didn't like Monroe last year but he completely picked up his game since then. Dude was out on the break all the time, handled the ball, defended well, passed well... I still like Larry Sanders as a project who can make an immediate difference on defense though. Still like Brackins as an Al replacement at minimum dollars. Still like Warren. The value of those three if they go where they're projected is incredible.

I don't get the Manute reference. Is that for Sanders?

I'm just saying that if you do Gallo and Lee who's half way out the door, for Beaubois/Dampier and flip Damp for Murphy and the #10, then you're essentially swapping the Knicks prospects who are all forwards (while we're trying to recruit FA forwards) and you end up with a big combo guard, a legit center prospect, and you still have Wilson and Walker and TD if you consider him an important piece.

If you try to recruit Bosh, Johnson and/or LeBron and your existing team are all players at their position... that's not the strongest recruiting play.

Beaubois/Douglas/TWhite - PG
Beaubois/Douglas/TWhite - SG
Walker/Chandler - SF
Chandler/Murphy - PF
Monroe - C

Let's say you lose one of the 2nd rounders in the Indiana trade and this is your team after the draft and you go into free agency with enough to get a Max guy and a role player. That's at least a 5 seed in the East.

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
fishmike
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5/5/2010  10:09 PM
yea... and thats a terrible move. Terrible. Lee is an all star. Why you think he should be or is out the door is beyond me. I know you hate Gallo and refuse to acknowledge any talent there so I will waste my breath.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
JohnWallace44
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5/6/2010  7:53 AM
Lee needs to be a power forward on a team with a conventional center who is an impact defender. He might be an All-Star but if you look at it objectively he doesn't bring much more than Al or ZBo have so why cling to Lee? He's not winning games for us. Guys that make Max money need to be crunch time players. Lee is taken off the floor a lot in crunch time.

Only reason my scenario is a terrible move is because we gave up so much to make room for a 2nd Max player. If we give up on that to get a franchise center and balance the roster it would be a bit of a shame, but Donnie will have to take the temperature of the FA's around draft time.

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
fishmike
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5/6/2010  8:18 AM
JohnWallace44 wrote:Lee needs to be a power forward on a team with a conventional center who is an impact defender. He might be an All-Star but if you look at it objectively he doesn't bring much more than Al or ZBo have so why cling to Lee? He's not winning games for us. Guys that make Max money need to be crunch time players. Lee is taken off the floor a lot in crunch time.

Only reason my scenario is a terrible move is because we gave up so much to make room for a 2nd Max player. If we give up on that to get a franchise center and balance the roster it would be a bit of a shame, but Donnie will have to take the temperature of the FA's around draft time.


first of all Al isnt half as good as Lee. You like to dismiss the fact that Lee has one of the best FG% in the NBA. This is a not a stat you can inflate with volume. And ZBo? I always said he was better than people here made him out but Lee is better than him also. Regardless Lee is better than him also. I would say ZBo was a better offensive player but Lee has continued to improve adding post moves, adding longer range on his jumper, becoming an excellent passer that led to easy buckets and still keeping that elite FG%.

Lee doesnt win games? Sorry.. what kind of players win games? Are we supposed to have a starting lineup of Wade, Lebron, Melo, Bosh and Amare?

Guys that pass, handle the ball, rebound, get other guys shots, score 20ppg and shoot over 55% win you games.

Lee isnt a finisher. He's not going to get his own shot and take over games in crunchtime. Very few bigs do or can.

I dont know what you define as a winning player, but Lee is building block in the rotation. You dump him where is that production coming from? Because you can go get a 20/10 55% guy anytime you need right?

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
JohnWallace44
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5/6/2010  10:42 PM
To me, a max guy had better decide games, so if we give a ton of money to Lee and can't give it to guys like Carmelo down the road that would be pretty sad.

Giving Lee 6 years and $66 Mil means that he's one of the top three if not top two guys that you're going to battle with for the next 6 years, especially given the impending CBA that will reduce player salaries making $11 mil per for Lee look even more ridiculous.

Lee's clearly not a center for a competitive team, correct? That means he has to play either Chandler's, Gallo's, Bosh's, Amare's, or 'Melo's position if we're going to be competitive, correct?

So let's say you do this. You have a center, and you have Lee making near Max money and you have Chandler and Gallo splitting minutes at what position? You've limited yourself to one of LeBron, Joe Johnson, Wade, or possibly Boozer. What's the best you can do there?

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
How many roster holds will we have--is this rightfor example?

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