NYKBocker wrote:I know right? This is the most exciting off-season since the summer of 1996 when we signed H20 and Childs then traded for LJ. That was a deep FA class also. Michael Jordan, Shaq, Mourning, Dale Davis, H20, Reggie Miller, Tim Hardaway, Gary Payton, Dikembe Motumbo. I am probably missing some other players here.

Juwan Howard was one of the most coveted members of that class. People wanted the Knicks to sign him to pair with Ewing.

Get his wrinkly old balls out ya mouth...what was the point of this thread??

The problem that Walsh detractors are having is not the idea of having cap space, but what we perceive is a mangling of assets. We already had enough space to sign Lebron before the T-Mac trade.

The few assets we did have were given to Houston in order to give us additional cap room. I feel in a lot of ways Walsh's was dealing from a disadvantaged hand given that Hill was obviously a bad pick, compounded by the fact that D'ivatoni wasn't giving him consistent PT. In any event, we gave up ALOT for the unknown.

This is the bottom line. We sign Lebron and another top level free agent, IM GOOD. Im right there with you losing my mind. But if we dont, and we get shut out this offseason, there is going to be hell to pay.

I'm tired of this bullshyt Walsh/Divatoni argument. I want whats best for the Knicks. Currently, I think their approach and the moves management has made have been questionable. If I'm proven wrong, great but enough of these circular arguments!

#1. Dolan didn't want them to tank! PERIOD!!! He's never wanted any of his GM's to go that route. It may not have made sense, but that's not what he ever wants. He wants at least the illusion that the team is trying to make the playoffs every year.

#2. Even now you can see that with this idea that we're going to buy great talent the sales have gone thru the roof! This is Dolan's Prime Directive. No GM is above that and all have to work under those constraints. I think even Isiah would really have loved to have let it just tank and go young. All this stuff GM's that come here spout about not being able to do a traditional rebuild comes from Dolan. They just don't say it out loud.

#3. Walsh looked at the landscape and felt that the cap space was of more value than the pick and Hill. That's not a mistake unless you fail to make any improvements and instead use up all that cap space on players not worth the money. So criticism is premature. He was going after the best FA's with that money or if not then he's betting that he'd have deals available for cap relief and that his pick wasn't that important, so long as he could provide sufficient cap relief.

I can't complain about a guy actually ACCOMPLISHING what he said he'd do from day one. He put us in the best possible position to land the top FA's that he could. By being able to actually sign two max players outright, he will put pressure on those FA's teams to do a sign and trade or else risk losing the player for nothing. The FA's Agents know this and can use this to their advantage in negotiations. Trust me they all want their players to be in a situation like ours with all the extra marketing opportunities for their playing careers and afterwards.

Second the 2009 draft was certainly botched. How can you say it wasnt? MS is right, drafting Jennings would have been equivalent to signing a max level guy and would have put is in the driver's seat as far as leverage at the negotiating table and increasing the desirability among free agents.

And if we get shut out in the free agent market, Houston will be looking at our picks like Big Ben looks at a drunk chick in the bathroom at a club.

But it looks like the way things will shake out is that we will panic this offseason and grab second-tier guys like Boozer, Joe Johnson, or DLee to justify the midseason trade --- win 44 games next year, which will prompt you guys to throw a ticker-tape parade for Walsh and D'ivatoni because you have so much invested in defending them.

U guys fans of the knicks or Walsh and D'ivatoni?

sebstar wrote:Nixluva. Nobody ever said anything about tanking, or at least I havent. So those first two paragraphs were a waste of time.

Second the 2009 draft was certainly botched. How can you say it wasnt? MS is right, drafting Jennings would have been equivalent to signing a max level guy and would have put is in the driver's seat as far as leverage at the negotiating table and increasing the desirability among free agents.

And if we get shut out in the free agent market, Houston will be looking at our picks like Big Ben looks at a drunk chick in the bathroom at a club.

But it looks like the way things will shake out is that we will panic this offseason and grab second-tier guys like Boozer, Joe Johnson, or DLee to justify the midseason trade --- win 44 games next year, which will prompt you guys to throw a ticker-tape parade for Walsh and D'ivatoni because you have so much invested in defending them.

U guys fans of the knicks or Walsh and D'ivatoni?

Jennings is the same as a Max Level talent? When did this happen? He's a good young player, but I'm not ready to stamp him with any major franchise level status yet. Let's take it easy with the accolades for Jennings. We don't know what he's really going to be yet.

All this IF we get shut out of the FA market fear mongering is overplayed. We've got a great shot at getting someone to sign here and I could care less about the pick we gave up at this point. I'll worry about draft after we know how next years team does.

Again more fear mongering about who we'll get and them being a bunch of 2nd tier guys. We won't know for months how that all works out. What i'm giving Walsh props about is that he accomplished his stated priority to get under the cap with significant cap space to rebuild the team into a winner. Here we sit in the very position.

sebstar wrote:that mid-season trade is like asking somebody to clean their room and they take everything out of the room and throw it away in the garbage. Okay, room is "clean" but now what? What the hell you gunna sleep on?

Exaggeration, yeah, but its clear that our options are now severely limited, and are completely tied to the success or failure of this offseason. Had we used our assets more judiciously, we wouldnt be in this position. I dont know why you continually refuse to acknowledge this.

Jennings, two expirings next year, our draft picks > an extra few million in cap space ....unless we get Lebron.

How is Jennings, 2 Exp and the 2012 pick better than the 10 mil we just added in cap space? You keep making the assumption that 1. Jennings is gonna be the kind of PG we needed 2. the picks would either be used in a trade or that they turn into great players for this team.

The idea right now is that we can either sign top FA's outright or make a deal to bring in top tier talent. In either case the move is to bring in proven top tier talent it takes to win. If in the worst case scenario we don't get that top tier talent, we still have our cap space and can go for young cheaper talent this summer and go after FA's again next summer. We have very viable options despite what some keep saying.

holfresh wrote:I don't see how some get around the draft picks...potentially 3 lottery picks...No one in their right mind gamble that unless they know of a certain outcome...No LBJ, Donnie should be fired the very next day, no questions asked...

Yeah, its pretty bizarre. There must be some Knick office workers among us. At least I hope they are, because to do all this mental leapfrogging and spin control for no compensation would be fukkin ridiculous.

It doesnt make a lick of sense. We could have had the same amount of cap space next year without having to give up all of those strong, tangible assets. Now its "okay" if we get shut out this offseason? Seriously, bruh?

I could add more, but its just the same ol' shyt. No top level free agent this offseason? Walsh better kick rocks and leave.

This 2010 off season has never been about lebron or bust. Its about resetting the franchise. Knicks are way under the cap with Eddy curry set to come offnext year. What's there to complain about.

Lebron and these stars have to want to come. This years record shouldn't have any effect on their decision since most of them wont be back. There's quite a few directions Knicks can go in. Every which way is up

sebstar wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

This 2010 off season has never been about lebron or bust. Its about resetting the franchise. Knicks are way under the cap with Eddy curry set to come offnext year. What's there to complain about.

C'mon, man.

what's the problem? Knicks goal was to get as much money as they could to sign anyone they wanted to. If its Lebron? Great...chances are Lebron one come, but it would have been stupid not to try. The Knicks will improve no doubt about it. No use complaining about what's already done.