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David Lee Comparisons: Maybe I have been too harsh a critic?
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EwingsGlass
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4/9/2010  4:44 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/14/2010  1:29 PM
So, I was looking at the advanced stats for David and his peers. Of the rebounding/non-defense playing PF/Cs out there, David is really holding his own. Assists is the one category where he is truly better than his peers.


DAVID LEE

 
PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
22.2 .584 .544 8.3 27.9 17.9 17.3 1.4 1.0 11.8 23.7 116 107 7.0 3.0 10.0 0.167

CARLOS BOOZER

 
PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
21.5 .600 .563 8.3 29.9 19.4 15.8 1.6 1.1 14.3 24.8 113 102 5.4 4.5 9.9 0.180

CHRIS BOSH

 
PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
25.1 .592 .522 9.8 25.3 17.7 11.6 0.9 2.1 10.7 28.7 118 111 8.0 1.6 9.6 0.183

TROY MURPHY

 
PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
18.2 .592 .557 5.8 28.8 17.3 10.7 1.5 1.0 10.4 18.7 115 103 4.0 3.5 7.5 0.162

JOAKIM NOAH

 
PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
17.7 .549 .494 13.3 27.3 20.4 10.5 0.9 4.0 15.9 17.1 111 101 2.3 3.2 5.5 0.149

AMARE STOUDEMIRE

 
PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
22.6 .615 .558 9.7 18.9 14.6 4.8 0.9 2.1 12.1 27.3 117 109 8.2 2.4 10.5 0.180
You know I gonna spin wit it
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EwingsGlass
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4/9/2010  4:53 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/9/2010  4:53 PM
Just to follow up, I am not sure whether this makes me more open to signing David or less open to guys like Boozer and Bosh.

One point to note is that people state that David Lee performs without the ball. However, his usage rate is pretty high. From that standpoint, you can expect his stats to decline (probably to a more Troy Murphy-esque level) once a top notch "star" is added to the rotation.

You know I gonna spin wit it
kam77
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4/9/2010  5:14 PM
Good use of the [code] attribute.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
TMS
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4/9/2010  5:22 PM
Boozer & Lee's stats are about the same across the board... i don't think i've been too harsh a critic when i say both deserve around the same contract... i still wouldn't sign either of those guys at the dollars i think they're going to command this summer tho.
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knicks1248
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4/9/2010  5:47 PM
TMS wrote:Boozer & Lee's stats are about the same across the board... i don't think i've been too harsh a critic when i say both deserve around the same contract... i still wouldn't sign either of those guys at the dollars i think they're going to command this summer tho.

why not

ES
TMS
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4/9/2010  5:58 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
TMS wrote:Boozer & Lee's stats are about the same across the board... i don't think i've been too harsh a critic when i say both deserve around the same contract... i still wouldn't sign either of those guys at the dollars i think they're going to command this summer tho.

why not

they're both weak defensively & for that amount of money i need to have more than just a guy who can produce stats offensively... if he can't play any defense then at least provide me with a go to presence offensively in crunchtime that i can always rely on to get off his own shot & beat a double team... David Lee is not that level of a player & IMO neither is Carlos Boozer... at $12M per average value i don't think either player is worth the investment.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
loweyecue
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4/9/2010  6:16 PM
Is he really averaging a block a game?
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Bippity10
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4/9/2010  6:25 PM
I'm with TMS on this one. I love David Lee. I want him to be in a NY uniform more than anyone on this roster but I do have some problems with his game. At a high salary David Lee really doesn't bring you the big shot down the stretch. For me the highest paid guys should be guys that put up big numbers all game long, but most importantly are guys you can give the ball down the stretch and on many nights they can carry you. David Lee at the moment does not do that. He may actually develop that ability but right now there is little evidence of it. For that money you have to have a player that can take over a game when the team needs him most. At the moment I still don't really see him as a number two to a star, but at the rate his game is improving he can really develop into that guy.
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martin
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4/9/2010  7:03 PM
Bippity10 wrote:I'm with TMS on this one. I love David Lee. I want him to be in a NY uniform more than anyone on this roster but I do have some problems with his game. At a high salary David Lee really doesn't bring you the big shot down the stretch. For me the highest paid guys should be guys that put up big numbers all game long, but most importantly are guys you can give the ball down the stretch and on many nights they can carry you. David Lee at the moment does not do that. He may actually develop that ability but right now there is little evidence of it. For that money you have to have a player that can take over a game when the team needs him most. At the moment I still don't really see him as a number two to a star, but at the rate his game is improving he can really develop into that guy.

it isn't clear: are you hedging your bets at all?

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nixluva
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4/9/2010  7:12 PM
Love David's Point Forward skills. I think he's the best passing PF in the crop of FA's and he really fits what MDA likes to do. He has great hands and good quick feet and finishes great too. He's basically everything you'd want except be a defensive presence and the fact that he's not feared like guys like Bosh or Amare. He doesn't have that kind of rep. He's also not a guy who you just throw the ball to inside and he'll cause a team to have to double him late in games. Thing is you really don't need that if you sign a Star Guard-SF that can break a team down and create offense. ie Bron or Wade.
kam77
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4/9/2010  7:15 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/9/2010  8:19 PM
loweyecue wrote:Is he really averaging a block a game?

No. He averages 0.5 blocks per game.

lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
Childs2Dudley
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4/9/2010  7:33 PM
If Bosh is on this team he will average 25 and 12, guaranteed. The system plays a part. Especially for Daivd Lee. Bosh would beast in this system and that's why I hope he comes here.
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earthmansurfer
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4/10/2010  4:39 AM
The one thing that Lee can't do very well and that is be a go to guy at the end of a game. He can handle any one, one on one with his ambidextrous skills, but if he gets doubled, just be thankful he is a great passer. He is the perfect kind of guy to have around with a Max player. IF we can afford him I would give him the 12 or 13 he will get on the market.
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TheGame
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4/10/2010  8:44 AM
TMS wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
TMS wrote:Boozer & Lee's stats are about the same across the board... i don't think i've been too harsh a critic when i say both deserve around the same contract... i still wouldn't sign either of those guys at the dollars i think they're going to command this summer tho.

why not

they're both weak defensively & for that amount of money i need to have more than just a guy who can produce stats offensively... if he can't play any defense then at least provide me with a go to presence offensively in crunchtime that i can always rely on to get off his own shot & beat a double team... David Lee is not that level of a player & IMO neither is Carlos Boozer... at $12M per average value i don't think either player is worth the investment.

I think this is where Lee is weaker than Bosh and even Boozer. I would say Lee is the worst defender of the bunch and thus, you have to factor that in when deciding who you want. I think Bosh is a hugh upgrade over Lee, in terms of size and defense and offense. Boozer would be a very minor upgrade and probably not worth the money. If we could resign Lee for 6 yrs at $69 million, that would be a decent deal. Bosh would cost us about $100 mil, and Boozer would cost us about $80 million in S&Ts.

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Anji
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4/10/2010  12:23 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/10/2010  12:26 PM
I think Lee will back for 10-12 million. He does too many things great to be boiled down to he's shot blocking.

I remember when Reggie Evans was as a good rebounder, never top 10, and got a 5 million dollar deal. Lee is the second best in the League behind superman. The passing, the handle, the shooting, the ability to finish............ Lee is worth ten million, even if he doesn't guard the rim.

I can see Lee at 58million 5yrs.

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EnySpree
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4/10/2010  12:55 PM
Lee is worth 10 mill. Dude should not get anymore than that.

Boozer can actually be a dump it down force down the stretch. He has shown that ability fairly consistently in his career at Utah. He's also a little better defensively because he takes charges and seals the lane better with his body.

I agree with the idea Lee would fit better with a superstar swingman like lebron or Wade. If the Knicks can't get either. They need to focus on opposite. Amare or bosh and probably Joe Johnson or a combo of cheaper guys like Mike Miller etc.

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TMS
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4/10/2010  1:07 PM
Boozer has a turn around fadeaway that he can use to beat the double team at times & his low post skills are more refined than Lee's, but his passing isn't as good, so if he gets trapped down low he's likely to turn the ball over... Lee has a set shot that is only effective if he's left uncovered on the perimeter & he can't beat the double team with any of his skills... he can take his man off the dribble 1 on 1 & finish but if he gets double covered he's going to be dumping the ball out to someone else... unless he develops a consistent 3 pointer next season he's going to be covered more than he's been this year being guarded by more athletic PF's rather than slower C's, so that wide open midrange J will be less available to him... not to mention he's not going to get the same amount of shot attempts playing alongside another dominant low post presence like Bosh or Amare... anyone that wants to pencil in his 20 & 11 this year into next year's roster playing alongside Bosh or Amare is using faulty logic.
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Bippity10
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4/14/2010  10:36 AM
martin wrote:
Bippity10 wrote:I'm with TMS on this one. I love David Lee. I want him to be in a NY uniform more than anyone on this roster but I do have some problems with his game. At a high salary David Lee really doesn't bring you the big shot down the stretch. For me the highest paid guys should be guys that put up big numbers all game long, but most importantly are guys you can give the ball down the stretch and on many nights they can carry you. David Lee at the moment does not do that. He may actually develop that ability but right now there is little evidence of it. For that money you have to have a player that can take over a game when the team needs him most. At the moment I still don't really see him as a number two to a star, but at the rate his game is improving he can really develop into that guy.

it isn't clear: are you hedging your bets at all?

Yes, I clearly am

I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
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4/14/2010  10:39 AM
Was there more than one game this year where David Lee took over the game and carried us down the stretch??

Gallinari, Robinson, Douglas, Chandler I can actually think of a few moments where they put the game on their back when we needed it. I remember David Lee giving consistent effort and stats throughout games but I really don' remember him ever carrying us. If he didn't recieve a great pass from Duhon on a pick and roll he didn't score down the stretch. Again, I love the guy. I want him to be here. But we can't overpay for a guy that lacks that skill.

We lose a lot of close games because we have noone that can score when we really need it.

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DurzoBlint
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4/14/2010  11:14 AM
He's one of only 3 players this season to average 20+/10+
thats should say it all
the fact that you can't even have an unrelated thread without some tool here bringing him up make me think that rational minds are few and far between. Bunch of emotionally weak, angst riddled people. I mean, how many times can you argue the same shyt
David Lee Comparisons: Maybe I have been too harsh a critic?

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