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Bosh hovering at .500 again
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King1
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3/25/2010  9:54 AM
The raptors have better players at ever position vs the Knicks. How can we say Bosh is a franchise player when yet again this year he cant carry his team past .500 record. He is a great talent but if you put him on the Knicks team right now and put Lee on the raptors I think both teams record stay about the same. Not saying Lee is better than Bosh I am just saying Bosh isnt making the raptors a big time team with the talent around him.
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djsunyc
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3/25/2010  10:01 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/25/2010  10:01 AM
we were 21-10 from the beginning of december until bosh got hurt the first game back from the all star game.

he missed 8 games, where they won the first 2 (nets/wizards), then went 1-5 after (only win vs. the knicks).

then they went on a west coast trip with a hobbled bosh and the season started to crumble. plus triano's coaching has been highly suspect all year long...and even more so now.

they are back at .500 b/c although they have talent, it's all offense and no defense. and i think bosh checked out on his teammates as most of his pressers now are using the word "i" instead of "we".
djsunyc
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3/25/2010  10:05 AM
there is one red flag with bosh tho...it appears every year, he starts off playing like a star. and this year, like a superstar. but then somewhere along the line, he gets a little injury that puts him on the shelf for like 5-10 games. and then never comes back to that allstar level after it. some flashes but never the same as he was earlier. he just might not be physically strong enough to maintain such a high level while basically carrying the offense as they dump it to him every single play.
nykbasketball
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3/25/2010  10:23 AM
I don't think Bosh has the mental toughness to be a legitimate franchise player/#1 option. He just isn't all there during the critical playoff stretch almost every season and as DJ said his play definitely tapers off as the season progresses. Just compare what Wade is doing with the Heat roster and what Bosh is doing with the more talented Raptors roster. Bargnani, Hedo, and Calderon would all arguably be the best player on the heat with the exception of Wade (and maybe Beasley). The reality is that if Bosh cannot carry a team with second round talent to the playoffs in the weakest division in the weakest conference then he is not a #1 option, not a franchise player, and certainly not worth the max. It would just prove he is a poor leader on a team that looks to him for leadership and he is missing either mental or physical toughness, composure, determination, or some combination of these traits and other traits not listed. The scary part about this whole thing is that even if Bosh proves to not be worth a max contract he will still get one, and chances are Donnie will sign him and the Knicks will be stuck with a terrible leader and a proven loser as the centerpiece of the franchise for the foreseeable future.
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King1
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3/25/2010  10:27 AM
I think Bosh has proved he is one of the best the question is if he gets a max contract will he check out just like he is doing at the end of a contract year?
iSergio
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3/25/2010  10:46 AM
Chris Bosh is not an Alpha Male. He's Scottie Pippen. Nothing wrong with that! He'll get the Max on his age and talent but you're not going to win a title or even make the Conference Finals with Bosh as your best player.
martin
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3/25/2010  10:47 AM
King1 wrote:The raptors have better players at ever position vs the Knicks. How can we say Bosh is a franchise player when yet again this year he cant carry his team past .500 record.

i don't have any idea why you would suggest that "we" say Bosh is a franchise player. Or perhaps there are different shades of what folks are calling franchise players.

There is Kobe, LeBron, Wade in this coming free agent market. Franchise players. And then there is everyone else.

Now, what you pay a player is completely different than equating it to that label "Franchise Player" and how they would be able to carry a team. You pay a player what the market dictates. Some teams will have to overpay to sign new players (and that could very well be Max money).

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GodSaveTheKnicks
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3/25/2010  10:47 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/25/2010  10:50 AM
Good thread. I was going to start one entitled "Chris Bosh frustration watch"

“(The Jazz are) good, they’re one of the best teams in the West,” Raptors forward Chris Bosh(notes) said. “But that’s still no excuse. We didn’t come to play.

“Yeah, they’re good, but we have to (say), ‘Who cares? We’re still going to win this game.’ And I don’t think we have that fire right now.”

“I can’t instill it in guys,” Bosh said. “You have to have it on your own. As much as I would like to do everything, I can’t do everything. Personally, you have to bring something to the plate. Whatever gets guys going, we have to find it.”

i love it. after getting swept out of the 1st round by Orlando or Cleveland I think Bosh will be ready to
come back to good ol' US of A.

or better yet Chicago comes from behind and snatches the last playoff spot and Toronto doesn't even make the playoffs.

Bosh will look and see Jarret Jack, Turkoglu, Bargnani and Calderon all signed till at least 2012/2013...

Bron can pick between him and joe johnson.

Let's try to elevate the level of discourse in this byeetch. Please
sebstar
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3/25/2010  10:54 AM
iSergio wrote:Chris Bosh is not an Alpha Male. He's Scottie Pippen. Nothing wrong with that! He'll get the Max on his age and talent but you're not going to win a title or even make the Conference Finals with Bosh as your best player.

Yep, thats why we've always said around here, "get Bosh and..." Never, "we need to get Bosh" end of sentence.

My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
tkf
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3/25/2010  11:04 AM
King1 wrote:The raptors have better players at ever position vs the Knicks. How can we say Bosh is a franchise player when yet again this year he cant carry his team past .500 record. He is a great talent but if you put him on the Knicks team right now and put Lee on the raptors I think both teams record stay about the same. Not saying Lee is better than Bosh I am just saying Bosh isnt making the raptors a big time team with the talent around him.

I don't agree with that.. I think gallo, chandler and harrington are as talented if not more talented than anyone one the raps roster sans bosh...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
knicks1248
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3/25/2010  11:05 AM
King1 wrote:The raptors have better players at ever position vs the Knicks. How can we say Bosh is a franchise player when yet again this year he cant carry his team past .500 record. He is a great talent but if you put him on the Knicks team right now and put Lee on the raptors I think both teams record stay about the same. Not saying Lee is better than Bosh I am just saying Bosh isnt making the raptors a big time team with the talent around him.

Lee is not that far off from bosh,

ES
King1
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3/25/2010  11:53 AM
Maybe I am the only one on the board but I will take Bargs over Gallo anytime. I will also take Hedo who was bigtime in the playoffs for Orlando over Chandler.
Marv
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3/25/2010  11:55 AM
King1 wrote:Maybe I am the only one on the board but I will take Bargs over Gallo anytime. I will also take Hedo who was bigtime in the playoffs for Orlando over Chandler.

do you really think you're the ONLY one on the board?
King1
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3/25/2010  12:00 PM
Marv I have got beaten up so bad on this board I have no self esteem. If Bosh isnt a franchise player why pay him franchise money?
holfresh
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3/25/2010  12:03 PM
King1 wrote:Marv I have got beaten up so bad on this board I have no self esteem. If Bosh isnt a franchise player why pay him franchise money?

So we don't have to pay DLee franchise money...Lesser of two evils...
sebstar
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3/25/2010  12:05 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/25/2010  12:12 PM
King1 wrote:Marv I have got beaten up so bad on this board I have no self esteem.

Look at that UK get together photo. U'll feel better about yourself real quick. I'm playin...

My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
djsunyc
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3/25/2010  12:09 PM 

           Pre-injury    Post-injury
Minutes      36:23         35:21
Off. Reb.     3.0           2.6
Def. Reb.     8.4           6.2
Tot. Reb.    11.4           8.8
Assists       2.3           2.3
Blocks        1.1           0.4
Turnovers     2.3           3.1
PF            2.3           3.0
FTA           8.8           6.4
PPG          24.5          21.3
TS%          0.598         0.537
PER          26.50         17.78

raptors can not win unless bosh plays at a super high level...and that's not been the case since his injury.
tkf
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3/25/2010  1:10 PM
King1 wrote:Maybe I am the only one on the board but I will take Bargs over Gallo anytime. I will also take Hedo who was bigtime in the playoffs for Orlando over Chandler.


I would take gallo and chandler over both.. no second thoughts...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
King1
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3/25/2010  1:34 PM
David Lee doesnt deserve franchise money but he does deserve a fair market contract. Beat him up all you want he can help a team win games and he will highly sought after this summer.
djsunyc
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3/25/2010  2:14 PM
another thing of note is that every other playoff team has a perimeter player in their top 2 in fga's and ppg. toronto is the only one that does not as it's mainly bosh and then bargs. hedo is the closest perimeter guy but at a good 5ppg less than bargs. it's an imbalanced attack as there are no guards to keep defense honest and there to make things easier for the bigs.
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