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Toney Douglas>Branden jennings
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BRIGGS
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3/22/2010  10:20 PM
I always call it like I see it--this is how it will end up. No big deal that we didn't take Jennings--we still got the superior player.
RIP Crushalot😞
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Childs2Dudley
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3/22/2010  10:21 PM
Weren't you saying Douglas was nothing special when he was drafted?
"Our attitude toward life determines life's attitude towards us." - Earl Nightingale
rp
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3/22/2010  10:22 PM
is BRIGGS there?
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BRIGGS
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3/22/2010  10:24 PM
Childs2Dudley wrote:Weren't you saying Douglas was nothing special when he was drafted?

Yes I did and I was wrong.

RIP Crushalot😞
BigDaddyG
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3/22/2010  10:42 PM
Let's go easy there. TD is a better defensive player and you can make the case that he's better at scoring the ball at this point in their careers. But Jennings is by far a better playmaker, which is the number one requirement of a point guard, and he's three years younger. I'm going to have to place my chips on Jennings at this point.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
fishmike
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3/23/2010  8:29 AM
BigDaddyG wrote:Let's go easy there. TD is a better defensive player and you can make the case that he's better at scoring the ball at this point in their careers. But Jennings is by far a better playmaker, which is the number one requirement of a point guard, and he's three years younger. I'm going to have to place my chips on Jennings at this point.
I have curbed enthusiasm on both. Douglas is more mature so his learning curve in the NBA isnt as great. He's bigger and stronger than Jennings. He's a more polished BB player. 4 years at Florida. He was a featured scorer and the ACC defensive player of the year. Every year you see 4 year college players slip down because they dont have a 40 inch vert or a 7'4 wingspan but there are a ton of good players in the NBA that werent lotto picks. Hopefully we have 2 when we resign Lee.

Jennings shoots a lot of 3s, but his overall shooting % for the year has been dropping month by month and is now 37%. He does NOT have an NBA. He's 6'1 (maybe) and about 160 pounds. He's got a Jamal Crawford frame minus a couple inches. He's also not the playmaker people here make him out to be. He makes some really good passes and collects his assists but he's setting up guys off his own scoring, much like Marbury used to.

I would say Jennings has more raw talent and potential, but Douglas is a better player right now. Douglas is also clearly dedicated and a work horse.

Douglas definatly has Rondo type potential. For me, thats the hope. I think Jennings has Nash type potential, but has much longer to go before reaching it.

I'm very happy w/ Douglas. We needed to see that Walsh could find players like this and that bodes well. If I had to pick though you have to take Jennings.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
earthmansurfer
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3/23/2010  8:34 AM
fishmike wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:Let's go easy there. TD is a better defensive player and you can make the case that he's better at scoring the ball at this point in their careers. But Jennings is by far a better playmaker, which is the number one requirement of a point guard, and he's three years younger. I'm going to have to place my chips on Jennings at this point.
I have curbed enthusiasm on both. Douglas is more mature so his learning curve in the NBA isnt as great. He's bigger and stronger than Jennings. He's a more polished BB player. 4 years at Florida. He was a featured scorer and the ACC defensive player of the year. Every year you see 4 year college players slip down because they dont have a 40 inch vert or a 7'4 wingspan but there are a ton of good players in the NBA that werent lotto picks. Hopefully we have 2 when we resign Lee.

Jennings shoots a lot of 3s, but his overall shooting % for the year has been dropping month by month and is now 37%. He does NOT have an NBA. He's 6'1 (maybe) and about 160 pounds. He's got a Jamal Crawford frame minus a couple inches. He's also not the playmaker people here make him out to be. He makes some really good passes and collects his assists but he's setting up guys off his own scoring, much like Marbury used to.

I would say Jennings has more raw talent and potential, but Douglas is a better player right now. Douglas is also clearly dedicated and a work horse.

Douglas definatly has Rondo type potential. For me, thats the hope. I think Jennings has Nash type potential, but has much longer to go before reaching it.

I'm very happy w/ Douglas. We needed to see that Walsh could find players like this and that bodes well. If I had to pick though you have to take Jennings.

Nice points. And, it begs the question, where would this team be if Douglas had gotten minutes this year? I say he might actually be in the top 5 for rookies, (big if), if his numbers could stay at around 20ppg with 5 assists per game and low T.O, not to mention his GREAT D. I'm sure his pg skills will improve. He is just too hard a worker. He needs to learn more to kick it out on those drives, but he is still learning to let go of that scorers mentality. It actually hasn't hurt him much, but did at the end of the last game.

We might really have a pg for next year. When you think about it, he is the perfect pg to have with Lebron. Another scorer that can bring the ball up and greatly slow down the opposing teams pg. That would be two great defensive players on our team...

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
misterearl
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3/23/2010  8:45 AM
"If I had to pick though you have to take Jennings."

fishmike - Toney Douglas has a far superior work ethic, educational history and family background. A young man with a solid support system should NEVER be underestimated. The Douglas family dedication to their son will translate into superior focus, team play and an ability to follow the directions of his coaching staff. The sum total of Toney's experience and inherited values is the tie breaker that talent alone, or physical measurements, will NEVER match.

That is the stuff that makes winners.

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martin
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3/23/2010  8:50 AM
Haven't seen Jennings play at all this year.

Could someone do a comparison? Defense, quickness, passing, running team, strength, shooting? what's left?

Who would be more attractive for the top free agents? Does potential win over a proven commodity (in college) and defense?

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iSergio
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3/23/2010  8:51 AM
I'm very high on Toney Douglas. I actually think he's our best young player. Yes, better and more potential then both Danilo Gallinari and Wilson Chandler. I just love Douglas' defense and shooting. He's also fearless.
earthmansurfer
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3/23/2010  8:57 AM
martin wrote:Haven't seen Jennings play at all this year.

Could someone do a comparison? Defense, quickness, passing, running team, strength, shooting? what's left?

Who would be more attractive for the top free agents? Does potential win over a proven commodity (in college) and defense?

Others will say more than I can but I can at least comment:

Defense - Hands down Douglas is better. Jennings is very quick but doesn't have the body which is required. He will get a fair amount of steals though.
Quickness - Jennings is quicker but Douglas is very quick. I wouldn't weigh this one on it's own too much.
Passing - Jennings is better with better floor vision. I don't think there is any argument here.
Running a team - I would say Jennings is better since he can pass and see's the floor better, but when you consider the whole package Douglas can really do a lot to help his team. Jennings is clearly the more traditional pg and Douglas the combo.
Strength - Douglas hands down and embarrassingly so.
Shooting - See last point.
Maturity - Douglas is more mature but Jennings has proven critics wrong by being pretty good this year.
Basketball IQ - I haven't see Jennings play enough to comment. Douglas clearly has bbiq but he's still learning the pg role.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
misterearl
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3/23/2010  9:12 AM
earthmansurfer - what did you base your "maturity" rating on?

Research or gut feeling?

There is no such thing as Basketball IQ. Just unforced turnovers and clutch shots under two minutes.

once a knick always a knick
Markji
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3/23/2010  9:13 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
Childs2Dudley wrote:Weren't you saying Douglas was nothing special when he was drafted?

Yes I did and I was wrong.

Briggs, great that you manned-up about your opinion of Douglas from last year to now. You've gained added respect in my book.
The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
Andrew
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3/23/2010  9:21 AM
Kudos to BRIGGS for calling himself out!
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martin
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3/23/2010  9:23 AM
Andrew wrote:Kudos to BRIGGS for calling himself out!

first and last time EVER.

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Paladin55
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3/23/2010  9:24 AM
iSergio wrote:I'm very high on Toney Douglas. I actually think he's our best young player. Yes, better and more potential then both Danilo Gallinari and Wilson Chandler. I just love Douglas' defense and shooting. He's also fearless.

Not sure that he has more potential than those two, but his fearlessness/aggressiveness sets him apart from them at this point.

If you look at Gallo, Wilson, and TD, you see two guys- Douglas and Chandler, already at their physical peaks, IMO. TD just turned 24, by the way, and he is already a mature physical specimen. Wilson turns 23 in a couple of months, but he has been a mature athlete for a good time, now. Gallo is still growing and filling out at 21+. (I put Hill, by the way, a step above Gallo in physical maturation, but not at the levels of Chandler or Douglas.)

I think Gallinari has a lot of space (more than Douglas or Chandler)to grow both physically, and as a player, and he has also shown a lot of all around abilities that nobody thought he had, which leads me to think that he has only scratched the surface of his potential.

Chandler has the physical tools, and has had stretches where he has made me think that he is really coming to understand how to maximize his abilities on the court (much better shot selection and attention being given to his midrange game).

If we look at TD as a SG, he is already a near complete player. If we expect him to be a PG, he has a lot of work ahead of him. Whether he becomes better than Jennings depends on whether he can become a PG who comes to understand the "big picture" as a distributor (Bring out the old cliche' Can he make the players around him better?), and makes the right decisions as a shooter/scorer. I would love to see some more glimpses of him being a real PG before the season ends.

I think we lucked out with TD- I just hope that he can take that next step and become a guy who is able to orchestrate an offense and get about 8 APG with a minimum of turnovers.

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
Paladin55
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3/23/2010  9:28 AM
earthmansurfer wrote:
martin wrote:Haven't seen Jennings play at all this year.

Could someone do a comparison? Defense, quickness, passing, running team, strength, shooting? what's left?

Who would be more attractive for the top free agents? Does potential win over a proven commodity (in college) and defense?

Others will say more than I can but I can at least comment:

Defense - Hands down Douglas is better. Jennings is very quick but doesn't have the body which is required. He will get a fair amount of steals though.
Quickness - Jennings is quicker but Douglas is very quick. I wouldn't weigh this one on it's own too much.
Passing - Jennings is better with better floor vision. I don't think there is any argument here.
Running a team - I would say Jennings is better since he can pass and see's the floor better, but when you consider the whole package Douglas can really do a lot to help his team. Jennings is clearly the more traditional pg and Douglas the combo.
Strength - Douglas hands down and embarrassingly so.
Shooting - See last point.
Maturity - Douglas is more mature but Jennings has proven critics wrong by being pretty good this year.
Basketball IQ - I haven't see Jennings play enough to comment. Douglas clearly has bbiq but he's still learning the pg role.

Pretty fair analysis, IMO.

Should we make a big deal about their 4 year age gap?

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
martin
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3/23/2010  9:29 AM
TD looked not so good running a team during Summer League. I thought he has shown a bit more competency recently, a big jump to be sure. Small sample size and I would think other teams would pick up on his tendencies and weaknesses very soon now that he is playing more.

Can anyone speak of what they have seen from Jennings SL to now? changes in game? growth?

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martin
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3/23/2010  9:31 AM
Paladin55 wrote:Should we make a big deal about their 4 year age gap?

for me, potential is only as good as you fill it. One is younger but the other really has not played much PG, so age (perhaps) is not as much a factor.

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TheGame
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3/23/2010  10:01 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/23/2010  10:02 AM
TD is solid, but the question is can he sustain this over a full season. Mardy Collins looked solid too for awhile and is now about to get booted out the league. I think TD has shown more than Collins because he can actually hit a jumper, which was Collins weakness. But TD needs to establish that he can play at a high level all the time. His improvement on the P&R is encouraging though. Hopefully, we have the coaching staff needed to really work with him this summer to improve his floor management.

(P.S. - I predict that TD gets traded to bring in Bosh).

Trust the Process
Toney Douglas>Branden jennings

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