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What does college do for Athletes ? - Revisited
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playa2
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3/18/2010  10:00 AM
Not too long ago, U.S. Secretary of Education Arne Duncan spoke thoughtfully about how basketball and academics can best intertwine. Duncan spoke, essentially, for better education for those athletes in college, while also allowing that those few players ready for the NBA out of high school ought to be allowed to go.

Today, on the eve of the NCAA tournament, Secretary Duncan is speaking on the topic once again, this time reacting to new research from Richard Lapchick on graduation rates. From a transcript of his remarks, as prepared:

The good news is that graduation rates of basketball players overall are rising, and that basketball players still have a slight edge over non-athletes when it comes to finishing college. The reforms that Myles Brand instituted as the head of the NCAA have put an end to the days where basketball programs could go years on end without graduating a single African-American basketball player.

We also know that playing college basketball doesn’t have to be a ticket to dropping out. Look at the record of women players. Black and white female ballplayers have very high graduation rates—nearly 80 percent of black female players on NCAA tournament teams graduate, as do 90 percent of white female ballplayers.

But there are troubling findings in Richard’s analysis about programs where priorities have been askew. One out of five men’s teams in the NCAA tournament has graduated less than 40 percent of their players in recent years. If you can’t manage to graduate two out of five players, how serious are the institution and the coach about their players’ academic success? How are you preparing student athletes for life?

The graduation rates of African-American ballplayers on some men’s teams are shockingly low. Five men’s teams graduate 20 percent or less of their African-American players. Two teams, Maryland and California have, six years later, graduated zero percent of their black ballplayers who entered from 1999 through 2002.

It can be a challenge to raise graduation rates for players who come from high-poverty high schools and families where no one has attended college. But that’s not an adequate excuse. You can’t just round up the usual suspects to explain away the poor record of some programs.

Recall that Richard Lapchick’s studies use the NCAA Graduation Success metric, which does not penalize a school for players who transfer or go to the NBA, as long as they are in good academic standing. Low graduation rates aren’t one-year flukes either. The NCAA graduation rates are based on four years of graduation rates for entering classes.

Even more telling is the enormous variation from one men’s program to the next. Seven men’s teams in this year’s tournament graduate 100 percent of their players, black and white. By contrast, nine teams have a discrepancy of 60 percentage points or more in graduation rates between their white and black players.

You cannot tell me that discrepancies that large are unrelated to a program’s practices and an institution’s priorities. It doesn’t take an elite university like a Duke, Georgetown, or Notre Dame to have a high graduation rate. Ohio, Oakland, Oklahoma State, Siena, and Xavier all graduate more than 80 percent of their men’s players.

We need more athletic administrators like Sister Rose Ann Fleming at Xavier. Sister Fleming is a 77-year old academic advisor who goes knocking on player’s doors to make sure they are keeping up with their assignments. Since she became the academic advisor at Xavier in 1985, every men’s basketball player who played as a senior has left with a diploma.

We need more coaches like Eddie Robinson, the legendary football coach at Grambling, who used to walk through the dorm banging a cowbell before dawn to get his players up and out to class. Eighty percent of Eddie Robinson’s players graduated.

In 2001, the Knight Commission on Intercollegiate Athletics proposed that teams should be ineligible for post-season play if they failed to graduate at least 50 percent of their athletes.

Since then, colleges have made progress in boosting graduation rates--but it’s not nearly enough.

I want to reiterate my proposal to the NCAA that teams that fail to graduate 40 percent of their players should be ineligible for post-season competition. It’s a low bar, frankly, and not many teams would be ineligible. Over time, we should set a higher bar. But it’s a minimum, a bright line, which every program should meet to vie for post-season honors.

In this year’s NCAA tournament, 12 men’s teams have graduation rates below 40 percent, as do three women’s teams. Not a single team out of the 68 FBS football teams that played in bowl games this past year had a graduation rate below 40 percent. Institute a minimum of a 40 percent graduation rate for post-season play and I predict you will see men’s basketball teams suddenly improve their academic outcomes.

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
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fishmike
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3/18/2010  10:08 AM
that time of the year again... here we go.

Close the plantations!

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
DurzoBlint
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3/18/2010  10:09 AM
sorry but, I'm too lazy to read all of that so, I will go off the thread title

What does college do for Athletes:
Teaches them basketball fundamentals (ala the big fundamental)
Teaches good sportsmanship as well as how to make money under the table :)

the fact that you can't even have an unrelated thread without some tool here bringing him up make me think that rational minds are few and far between. Bunch of emotionally weak, angst riddled people. I mean, how many times can you argue the same shyt
martin
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3/18/2010  10:16 AM
another article that recently came out:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/18/sports/ncaabasketball/18caracter.html?ref=sports

Can’t-Miss Prospect May Make It After All


By PETE THAMEL
Published: March 17, 2010


EL PASO — When the basketball world first met Derrick Caracter, in July 2001, he was 13 years old, 6 feet 8 inches and carried around a stuffed orangutan named Ollie.

On Thursday, many fans will be reintroduced to Caracter. He will take the court for 12th-seeded Texas-El Paso in the first round of the N.C.A.A. tournament against fifth-seeded Butler as a 21-year-old junior whose teenage innocence is long gone.

In between, Caracter emerged as one of the most fascinating and frustrating personalities to come through the American basketball system. He attended three high schools and flamed out at Louisville. The hype surrounding Caracter was so great that a man said to be linked to a player agent dated Caracter’s aunt and lived in the same house with Caracter.

Along his jagged path, Caracter was overweight and academically underwhelming, and he transformed from a can’t-miss preps-to-pros prospect to being labeled a washout at age 20.

“If I could do it all over again? Maybe pray that David Stern didn’t change the rule about high school kids entering the draft,” said Caracter, referring to the N.B.A. commissioner. “Some guys just aren’t built for college.”

Caracter and his stuffed orangutan came on the scene thanks to an exhaustive profile, under the headline “Boy Wonder,” in The Star-Ledger of Newark during the summer before his eighth-grade year.

His high school choice soon became a big story, and he picked St. Patrick, a New Jersey powerhouse in Elizabeth near his family’s home in Fanwood. And he proved to be as precocious on the court as he was immature off it.

“I’ve never seen a kid with so much ability,” said Grant Billmeier, a teammate at St. Pat’s. “I don’t think he realized what he had was so special.”

Off the court, Caracter struggled with the school’s discipline policies. He did not make it through his first season before being suspended for a year for an accumulation of smaller offenses, ranging from uniform violations to tardiness to class misbehavior.

“The principal didn’t want to deal with it anymore,” Caracter said.

He transferred to Scotch Plains-Fanwood, his local public high school, and played there as a sophomore. Coach Dan Doherty said one conversation summed up that year.

Doherty recalled Caracter telling him: “I don’t understand why I have to be here in math class. I don’t need this. I’m just going to go to the N.B.A.”

That year, as Caracter climbed atop the recruiting rankings and LeBron James transformed from phenomenon to N.B.A. sensation, Doherty said things began to change.

He said Caracter could call Nike representatives and they would ship gear to him by overnight mail. Caracter would show up with a new watch or a cellphone with a California area code.

Doherty said Caracter’s explanation would be, “People give me things.”

Around that time, Caracter’s aunt began dating Eddie Lau. Doherty said he was told that Lau was working for Dan Fegan, a prominent N.B.A. agent. Doherty said Lau offered to bring better players to the high school, an offer Doherty declined. He said Lau tried to hang around practices.

“I’m certainly not a big fan of his,” Doherty said of Lau. “I know he’s not a big fan of mine. I would ask Derrick’s mom, ‘Who is this guy and why is he around?’ She’d say he’s going out with Derrick’s aunt and living in the house.”

Caracter left Scotch Plains-Fanwood after his sophomore year to return to St. Patrick. Neither side was disappointed. Doherty said Caracter’s lack of interest in class forced his departure.

“He had no study skills,” Doherty said. “He never learned how to and never really wanted to.”

Caracter was happy to attend St. Pat’s, summing up his public school experience with Doherty by saying, “A good guy, but he was a math teacher.”

Three years after Caracter left, Doherty won a state title.

Caracter’s junior year was his most productive in high school. He relished his time playing for Kevin Boyle, whose camps he had attended since fourth grade. Caracter’s reputation bloomed and Lau’s presence increased.

Lau, who dated Caracter’s aunt for four years, would pick Caracter up after practice. Boyle said he would let Lau in the gym, as he would other players’ family members.

“I think Eddie had some influence over Derrick,” Boyle said. “Was it good or bad? I don’t know. I don’t know all the details.”

On the advice of the Louisville assistant coach Steve Masiello, Caracter transferred to Notre Dame Prep, a school in Massachusetts with a reputation for getting academically troubled basketball players eligible.

Caracter got his grades, but his game regressed, his playing time was limited and his weight ballooned. He openly clashed with Coach Bill Barton, now an assistant coach at Duquesne. Barton found Caracter lazy and irresponsible.

“He really wanted the N.B.A. lifestyle for the lifestyle and not the game itself,” Barton said.

Caracter said he chose Louisville in part because of Lau’s friendship with Masiello, and he said he had no regrets about going there. When Caracter arrived, he weighed 315 pounds. Coach Rick Pitino would not let him practice until he reduced his weight to 265.

That began two seasons of two-way frustration and minimal production. There were suspensions, public criticisms and finally a dismissal. Soon after, the people around Caracter, including Lau — who had broken up with Caracter’s aunt — began to disappear.

“I just felt like Eddie wasn’t one of the people who had my back when everyone thought I was washed up at 20 years old,” Caracter said.

Lau said: “All these decisions were all made by Derrick and his mom and uncle. I didn’t influence him at all. People love to write about him and blame it on Eddie Lau.”

Caracter’s mother, Winnie Terry, and uncle, Dodd Terry — known as Rusty — said they hate to think that Lau dated Caracter’s aunt only to forge a relationship with Caracter and deliver him to an agent.

“I don’t know,” Rusty Terry said. “Honestly. I honestly don’t know. He indicated that he cared a lot about her. In hindsight, you become more and more suspicious.”

Lau said in a telephone interview that his intentions were pure.

“I dated her like any other girl who I cared about,” Lau said.

He added about Caracter: “I don’t need to bring him to an agent to make it in life. I don’t sell kids. I help kids.”

After four seasons of tumult, Caracter has found relative stability. He loves El Paso, saying “it’s like Miami, except there’s no beaches.” He has averaged 13.8 points and 8.0 rebounds, rehabbing his hopes as an N.B.A. prospect.

UTEP Coach Tony Barbee speaks of Caracter’s transformation with a near-religious zeal.

“You can’t change or turn like he has if you are a bad person,” Barbee said. “You can’t. You are what you are.”

Caracter does not believe he has undergone a wholesale transformation. He said he has found some peace, living in El Paso with his girlfriend — a former Louisville dance team member — a friend from New Jersey, and his two pit bulls, Bentley and Bernie.

“Honestly, I wouldn’t do anything different,” Rusty Terry said. “I think this was a necessary road for all of us to experience. This has all made him a much better person.”

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Nalod
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3/18/2010  10:41 AM
Playa, good to see they are making progress!!!!!

Maybe when family stops treating these kids as meal tickets in highschool they will be better prepared for LIFE either in the game or not.

Sixty players get drafted into the first two rounds.

What is the graduation rate for non athletes? Non athletes drop out also!!!

playa2
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3/18/2010  10:42 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/18/2010  10:52 AM
fishmike wrote:that time of the year again... here we go.

Close the plantations!

Why are you so down trodden ? Is it because of me posting it ?

Seven men’s teams in this year’s tournament graduate 100 percent of their players, black and white. By contrast, nine teams have a discrepancy of 60 percentage points or more in graduation rates between their white and black players.

You cannot tell me that discrepancies that large are unrelated to a program’s practices and an institution’s priorities. It doesn’t take an elite university like a Duke, Georgetown, or Notre Dame to have a high graduation rate. Ohio, Oakland, Oklahoma State, Siena, and Xavier all graduate more than 80 percent of their men’s players.

Any NCAA that teams that fail to graduate 40 percent of their players should be ineligible for post-season competition. It’s a low bar, frankly, and not many teams would be ineligible. Over time, we should set a higher bar. But it’s a minimum, a bright line, which every program should meet to vie for post-season honors.

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
Andrew
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3/18/2010  11:03 AM
Any NCAA that teams that fail to graduate 40 percent of their players should be ineligible for post-season competition

Graduation percentage seems like it is a bad stat to look at. Why penalize the other players that are getting an education for the transgressions of players the previous year. Perhaps the individual who is not putting enough effort into his schooling should be ineligible....because if other players on the team are succeeding in the classroom (the 40%) wouldn't it be fair to take that as a sign that it could be the individual that is not putting forth the effort?

The other side of this is that schools shouldn't even be admitting some of these athletes based on their academic standards.

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playa2
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3/18/2010  12:05 PM
Andrew wrote:
Any NCAA that teams that fail to graduate 40 percent of their players should be ineligible for post-season competition

The other side of this is that schools shouldn't even be admitting some of these athletes based on their academic standards.

Andrew I agree, so who do you reprimand ?

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
playa2
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3/18/2010  12:07 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/18/2010  12:09 PM

Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:09 pm EDT
Which NCAA teams have the best and worst graduation rates?

By Chris Chase

Arne Duncan, the U.S. Secretary of Education, says college basketball teams that don't graduate at least 40 percent of its players should be banned from the NCAA tournament. It's probably then safe to assume that Mr. Duncan doesn't have Maryland playing Kentucky in the finals of his bracket

The Institute for Diversity and Ethics in Sport at the University of Central Florida released its annual report on the graduation rates of NCAA tournament basketball teams and a number of the nation's top teams were near the bottom of the list. No. 1 seed Kentucky graduated just 31 percent of its students, the sixth-lowest rate amongst the 65 teams but far ahead of Maryland, which only saw eight percent of its basketball players graduate on time. Eight! That's one player!

It wasn't all bad news though. Top programs like BYU, Duke, Marquette, Notre Dame, Villanova and Wake Forest graduated over 90 percent of players in the time period studied. Here's a quick breakdown of the findings. Note, these rates only take into account players who graduate on time:

The good (100 percent graduation rates): BYU, Marquette, Notre Dame, Utah State, Wake Forest, Wofford (average tournament seed: 8.8)

The bad (between 20 and 36 percent graduation rates): Cal, Arkansas Pine-Bluff, Washington, Tennessee, Kentucky, Baylor, New Mexico State (average tournament seed: 6.8)

The ugly (8 percent graduation rate): Maryland (No. 4 seed)

Maryland coach Gary Williams told The Washington Post that such rates are insignificant:

Obviously, those years we had players leave early and they're millionaires now, and they're coming back to get their degrees, just like other guys have come back and gotten their degrees.

He has a point. If a player has success in the NBA, hasn't the college experience worked well? And why don't late graduates count in these numbers? A degree is still a degree no matter when it's attained. Still, the fact that Williams equates academic success with money is disconcerting.

Low graduation rates are nothing to be proud of, but they're no surprise. Most big-time college basketball players have long since stopped being student-athletes. For many, it's athletics first, academics second. If you're Gary Williams, that's acceptable. If you're Arne Duncan, it's


not.http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/blog/the_dagger/post/Which-NCAA-teams-have-the-best-and-worst-graduat?urn=ncaab,228616

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
Nalod
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3/18/2010  2:26 PM
HOw many enroll in a school and don't graduate at that school and are not studant athletes?

Then look at the spread.

Andrew
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3/18/2010  3:13 PM
playa2 wrote:
Andrew wrote:
Any NCAA that teams that fail to graduate 40 percent of their players should be ineligible for post-season competition

The other side of this is that schools shouldn't even be admitting some of these athletes based on their academic standards.

Andrew I agree, so who do you reprimand ?

Why does someone need to be reprimanded? Schools can let in who they want. In a perfect world they would only allow those who qualify but when it comes down to it, it is their choice. Student athletes should be responsible for their own academic success, and those who choose not to leave with a diploma are the ones that live with that decision.

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Nalod
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3/18/2010  3:31 PM
There are like 400 div one schools. Each with 15 players. Thats 6000 players.

Say 9 are scholarship. Thats 3600 players.

There are two draft rounds. Thats 60 players. Say another 20 don't get drafted but still get into the Developing leagu. Thats 80. ANd IM not counting a single Euro player.

Thats about 2% that have NBA pro Prospects. Maybe another 100 go play in turkey, or China, etc??

What, Maybe 4% can make a living playing basketball a year?

96% get a chance to play ball, get a free education with free room and board for 4 years. Some will travel to overseas to play also.

The assumption is the plantation abuses these kids but for many many kids this system actually benefits far more than it hurts.

What does a college do with most of the money it makes? Pay for other scholarships? They also create a lot of jobs at those arenas. People sell food, trainers train, engineers keep it going, etc etc. Its a big economy.

Sure there are kids that go into college and are not college material. If they are good enough ball players then they can play over seas. If not, game over. THey are not pro material to begin with.

I'd like to see more kids get degrees. Who wouldn't. Maybe the ones that do it better should be rewarded with more scholarship available instead of penalizing those that don't.

sebstar
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3/18/2010  3:59 PM
Within the realm of collegiate athletics, referring to schools as 'institutions of higher learning' has got to be one of the bigger cons going.

Collegiate sports used to cover athletic expenditures, support other aspects of the school, and put a reasonable amount of money into the coffers of directors, coaches, administrators...ext.

Now, big time colleges operate as corporations. Nothing more nothing less. "Student athletes" should be looked upon as cogs in a business model. Currently, its an extremely immoral practice.

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Allanfan20
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3/18/2010  10:17 PM
Playa is raging tonight!

Highly disagree though. I know you don't agree with the NBA age limit, but in my mind, it HAS to increase. The quality of ball in the NBA is so low right now, while the quality of college bball is pretty high, that something has to be done. Europe doesn't cut it. The kids need the school experience.

And nobody denies that it's all cooporate, but what isn't? The regular students are just the cogs of the business model as well.

It's not all about the student athlete playa. The regular students should get the same dues if anything.

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3/18/2010  10:36 PM
as a umd grad... the rates are not up to date and some things dont play in your favor... transfers out hurt you. if you take more than 6 years to get the degree, you cant count in the rate. plus the rate as calculated is for the 99-02 years. that happens to include wilcox -- left early for nba. dixon/blake/baxter -- all played in the nba, and some now playing over seas. holden got his degree, after the 6 year cap to count towrds the + rate. one thing that really hits umd is they require you to complete your last year on campus... you cant take credits while online/off site -- so if you are playing pro ball, you cant finish at umd unless you come back to the campus. still a bad number, though quite a few of the guys have gone on to make good $$$ minus the degree, and quite a number of former players have gone back to finish up... those guys will never count under the current tracking system.

for a diff ref point -- 10 of the last 12 sr's all graduated, including the srs this year who are on pace.

to me its a real misleading tracking system, plus the ncaa needs to stop pretending this is about STUDENT-athletes... its about $$$. thats why when calipari took over kentuky, he was allowed to kick out players on schollie... there is no such thing as a 4 year schollie. its up to the coach/school to want to renew you for another year. thats unfair

GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!!
Allanfan20
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3/18/2010  10:44 PM
It should be a crime if kids get their scholarships taken away b/c a new coach comes in. Lives are ruined that way. I'll say that much.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
sidsanders
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3/18/2010  10:52 PM
Allanfan20 wrote:It should be a crime if kids get their scholarships taken away b/c a new coach comes in. Lives are ruined that way. I'll say that much.

coaches fought for that so they could "reload" on talent easier... there is so much bad from all sides in this. coaches who quit on a school shouldnt be allowed to take another job instantly at another school. if a player transfers, he sits, unless the ncaa grants a waiver. why should coaches be diff? they told the players to go play for them and then bail. players get screwed. if coaches commit recruiting violations, the school+players get hammered mostly. shouldnt those violations follow the coach (in some cases it has, todd bozeman for example)??

GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!!
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3/19/2010  1:52 PM
hopefully all these kids that don't opt for the 'plantation' don't end up like Jeremy Tyler...

Jeremy Tyler quit Maccabi Haifa and returned home to San Diego on Friday, cutting short a disappointing first pro season.

The 18-year-old Tyler arrived in Israel on a wave of publicity in August after deciding to skip his senior year at San Diego High School to gain professional experience.

However, his time in Israel was fraught with problems, and he left two months before the end of the season.

“Due to personal matters, Jeremy chose to leave the team on his own will on March 18 and return home to San Diego,” Maccabi Haifa owner Jeffery Rosen said in a statement. “We wish Jeremy all the best.”

In the 10 games Tyler played for Haifa, the 6-foot-11 power forward averaged only 2.1 points and 1.9 rebounds in 7.6 minutes. Tyler, who reportedly earned a $140,000 salary, found it hard to adapt to the pro game and couldn't find a place in Maccabi Haifa's starting lineup.

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sebstar
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3/19/2010  1:54 PM
nyk4ever wrote:hopefully all these kids that don't opt for the 'plantation' don't end up like Jeremy Tyler...

Jeremy Tyler quit Maccabi Haifa and returned home to San Diego on Friday, cutting short a disappointing first pro season.

The 18-year-old Tyler arrived in Israel on a wave of publicity in August after deciding to skip his senior year at San Diego High School to gain professional experience.

However, his time in Israel was fraught with problems, and he left two months before the end of the season.

“Due to personal matters, Jeremy chose to leave the team on his own will on March 18 and return home to San Diego,” Maccabi Haifa owner Jeffery Rosen said in a statement. “We wish Jeremy all the best.”

In the 10 games Tyler played for Haifa, the 6-foot-11 power forward averaged only 2.1 points and 1.9 rebounds in 7.6 minutes. Tyler, who reportedly earned a $140,000 salary, found it hard to adapt to the pro game and couldn't find a place in Maccabi Haifa's starting lineup.

Imma prolly see his punk ass in some bar in PB tonight, with a fake id and some titties in his hand as he's buyin out the bar.

My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
nyk4ever
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3/19/2010  1:56 PM
sebstar wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:hopefully all these kids that don't opt for the 'plantation' don't end up like Jeremy Tyler...

Jeremy Tyler quit Maccabi Haifa and returned home to San Diego on Friday, cutting short a disappointing first pro season.

The 18-year-old Tyler arrived in Israel on a wave of publicity in August after deciding to skip his senior year at San Diego High School to gain professional experience.

However, his time in Israel was fraught with problems, and he left two months before the end of the season.

“Due to personal matters, Jeremy chose to leave the team on his own will on March 18 and return home to San Diego,” Maccabi Haifa owner Jeffery Rosen said in a statement. “We wish Jeremy all the best.”

In the 10 games Tyler played for Haifa, the 6-foot-11 power forward averaged only 2.1 points and 1.9 rebounds in 7.6 minutes. Tyler, who reportedly earned a $140,000 salary, found it hard to adapt to the pro game and couldn't find a place in Maccabi Haifa's starting lineup.

Imma prolly see his punk ass in some bar in PB tonight, with a fake id and some titties in his hand as he's buyin out the bar.

tell em that playa is looking for him and send the titties this way.

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
What does college do for Athletes ? - Revisited

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