That's fine--I know we are and were going to have atleast 24mm in cap space. Here is my problem--unless we spend MORE than 24mm in cash this summer--we just gave away possibly 3 high caliber assets for NOTHING. What happens if we stink the next two years and have to give up pick 4 and pick 7 in the next two drafts to go along with pick 8 we just traded in 2009 and 2010 pick thats going to Utah?

Why havent we learned a lesson that the worst case scenario's can not only come true but they have been going on for 9 years? How could you take away that hedge for 9mm more in cap room when you have such a poor semblance of a team--what kind of business model is this? NO team NO team has ever done this None. And you cant understand why a fan[s] would be flabbergasted by this move. Granted only 20% or less even understand it but for those who get it--it was a downright awful move--I cant say it enough.

How in the heck is LBJ coming here if he's a man of his word? This is a calamity that continues to get worse. We'll spend our money--we'll get two good players--but we have already had that--weve had good players here. If there was a way to trade a high pick for an existing star--we just gave that up beyond making the pick.

I hope that D Walsh sees that MDA might not be the man for the job because he will not accept bigger players--the Knicks tonight were an embarrassment. Just one week ago MDA promoted getting back to his game.It's funny but the game becomes much harder when Steve Nash isnt on your team anymore..

Were supposed to be making an impression on this player and I think we did. Our showcase 6-11 player--no rebounds 3-10 hiding 30 feet from the basket and being abused on D. D Lee destroyed by Verajuo. The Cavs team without James is by far much more superior up and won the bench--it's not even close unless we get the last 3 off the bench. We are so far away from being good that we should not have taken the draft off the table for the unknown. And lastly was the new CBA taken into consideration? What if the top line cap changes significantly to a much lower number and it's a hard cap? Bad bad business move and the fans will be the one's who pay.

many are poo pooing the draft picks we gave up and saying they aren't likely to be high picks anyway.

isiah never traded three first round picks in one deal.

and even if we get lebron, and another all star, there wll still be so many holes, it won't be funny.

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Again... what is totally lost is the Knicks are taking a chance for a star they can build around. That chance comes with a cost, but its not prohibitive.

Fishmike we could have done that like every other SMARTS teams with a vision. We could have played our youth and fringe players late in the season and lost more games using the excuse of developing them for this yr and could have potentially picked higher than 8 with J.Hill.

BRIGGS wrote:I understand that you disagree. But do you have to come along kicking and screaming? The plan is in motion and for all the complaining in the world, the moves that have been made cannot be undone.

Pot, meet kettle!

oohah

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:briggs- I agree. and a great point about how things have gone wrong the last 9 years.

many are poo pooing the draft picks we gave up and saying they aren't likely to be high picks anyway.

isiah never traded three first round picks in one deal.

and even if we get lebron, and another all star, there wll still be so many holes, it won't be funny.

this is my favorite part with you guys. We could actually get Lebron and you guys would still cry about not geting a turtle like Brook Lopez with the stiffest legs in the NBA. What has really happened is you have just gotten used to hating the Knicks. Its understandable

Wasnt Eddy Curry for Mike Sweetney, pick #2 (Lamarcus Aldridge) and our lottery pick this year? With no protection? For all we know that could be Aldridge and John Wall.

Lets clarify the draft pick status:
2010 we have no first rounder (Eddy Curry trade)
2011 Houston has the right to swap with us (#1 pick excluded)
2012 Houston gets with top 5 protection for 2012,2013,2014 and 2015. After that they would get a 2nd rounder.

Again... what is totally lost is the Knicks are taking a chance for a star they can build around. That chance comes with a cost, but its not prohibitive.

At least Isiah got a player - and Curry for a season looked like he might have been almost worth it.

But, here is the thing no one has really brought up.

Walsh could have, if the rumors are true, been able to dump Jefferies largely at the cost of Nate two years ago.

Maybe Sactown was asking for a first rounder- but not three!

he was asked directly about that a few times and said that was nothing more than a rumor. I only say that holds some water because he's been pretty honest so far about was has been discussed or hasnt been.

Did you just defend the Curry signing? And again... your only critisizing one side of the deal. Walsh gave up x to get ____ . Well, that blank hasnt been filled out yet. Isnt the daily drama premature? When we sign Joe Johnson to 5 years $85mm than scream bloddy murder. Hasnt happened yet

On the Jefferies deal last year - Walsh also threw his scouts under the bus for passing on Jennings- so I doubt Walsh would publicly own up to having missed out on a better deal.

Not defending the Curry S&T - just pointing out that at least Isiah got his players when he traded future lotto picks away.

And as far as filling in the blank - as a Knick fan during the last 9 years, how the heck can you expect anything to go right for the franchise? And is it only $85mm/5 years that we can sign Joe Johnson to? I'm expecting worse- like maybe a S&T with Lee headed to the Hawks!

as a Knick fan during the last 9 years, how the heck can you expect anything to go right for the franchise?

Hell.. Van Horn, Doleac, Kurt, Houston and Marbury looked pretty solid also! The perfect drive and kick PG with a team of great shooters and rebounders around him.

Curry/Zach/Marbury/Crawford had potential for a nice mix of outside scoring and SIZE.

All those plans failed, and really were not that good, but just because Layden and Isiah's plans failed doesnt mean Walsh's plans will.

sebstar wrote:Fishmike...

Over the years I have always been critical about the myopia that has permeated this board, which tends to spike during losing streaks or what have you.

But right now there is legitimate cause for concern. Walsh has boxed us into a rail. We dont have any young, surefire prospects on our roster and we certainly dont have any franchise level draft picks on the horizon.

So all our eggs are in Lebron's basket. Us getting our shyt pushed in on a nightly basis is not a good recruiting campaign for the best b-ball player in the world. Honestly, why would he want to come here?

So the alternative is to sign the Joe Johnson's or Boozers of the world. Well my point is this --- we could have gotten players like that without completely sacrificing our future.

There is sense of mismanagement that is becoming palpable. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm growing more and more pessimistic. I dont like D'ivatoni and his approach to player relations or his approach to the game of basketball. I dont like a lot of Walsh's personnel decisions. I dont like the makeup of our roster and outside of getting a Lebron or Wade, which are complete long shots, the 2010 free agent pool is not worth the cost.

I mean we saw Utah dump a really good player in Brewer (former lottery pick still in rookie deal) for nothing. Literally just a cost cutting move.

What if we dont get Lebron, and instead Utah sends us AK47 (owed like $17mm) + our first rounder (say pick 6) and their 2nd rounder #54 for cash considerations?

That would save Utah $18mm and give them a massive trade exception they could use during the year.

We get a big expiring (and somewhat usefull AK47) and a lottery pick.

My point is simply cap space gives us a 100 creative options outside of "LEBRON OR BUST"

We can be the coveted 3rd team to take salary to make other team's trades to work in exchange for picks.

Saying "this management failed" because Lebron is changing his number is assanine.

Walsh has done nothing spectacular here but is a good BB man. He deserves a little patience to see what he does with the flexibility he has traded for.

sebstar wrote:I know the 2010 pick is a lost cause, but we could have kept our other picks and easily acquired a Ak-47 level player, without dealing in complete hypotheticals.

All our major contracts were expiring by 2011. What was the point of this panic deal if we're not getting Lebron? For Joe Johnson? Please.

We wont know what this yields until training camp next year, unless we hit the FA homerun.

The point isnt we can get AK47, its that we can get him and send ZERO $$$ in salaries back to Utah.

And thats one of a ton of scenarios. I'm just saying it goes so far beyond Lebron.

fishmike wrote:

as a Knick fan during the last 9 years, how the heck can you expect anything to go right for the franchise?

you act like I expect something good to happen! I dont. Not at all. I only think something good can happen. Hell... McDyess could have averaged 20/10 and he, dirty Kurty, Spree and Houston could have had a couple of good playoff runs.

Hell.. Van Horn, Doleac, Kurt, Houston and Marbury looked pretty solid also! The perfect drive and kick PG with a team of great shooters and rebounders around him.

Curry/Zach/Marbury/Crawford had potential for a nice mix of outside scoring and SIZE.

All those plans failed, and really were not that good, but just because Layden and Isiah's plans failed doesnt mean Walsh's plans will.

sebstar wrote:Fishmike...

Over the years I have always been critical about the myopia that has permeated this board, which tends to spike during losing streaks or what have you.

But right now there is legitimate cause for concern. Walsh has boxed us into a rail. We dont have any young, surefire prospects on our roster and we certainly dont have any franchise level draft picks on the horizon.

So all our eggs are in Lebron's basket. Us getting our shyt pushed in on a nightly basis is not a good recruiting campaign for the best b-ball player in the world. Honestly, why would he want to come here?

So the alternative is to sign the Joe Johnson's or Boozers of the world. Well my point is this --- we could have gotten players like that without completely sacrificing our future.

There is sense of mismanagement that is becoming palpable. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm growing more and more pessimistic. I dont like D'ivatoni and his approach to player relations or his approach to the game of basketball. I dont like a lot of Walsh's personnel decisions. I dont like the makeup of our roster and outside of getting a Lebron or Wade, which are complete long shots, the 2010 free agent pool is not worth the cost.

Here is where I totally disagree. Everyone focuses on signing costly FAs but there are tons of other options.

I mean we saw Utah dump a really good player in Brewer (former lottery pick still in rookie deal) for nothing. Literally just a cost cutting move.

What if we dont get Lebron, and instead Utah sends us AK47 (owed like $17mm) + our first rounder (say pick 6) and their 2nd rounder #54 for cash considerations?

That would save Utah $18mm and give them a massive trade exception they could use during the year.

We get a big expiring (and somewhat usefull AK47) and a lottery pick.

My point is simply cap space gives us a 100 creative options outside of "LEBRON OR BUST"

We can be the coveted 3rd team to take salary to make other team's trades to work in exchange for picks.

Saying "this management failed" because Lebron is changing his number is assanine.

Walsh has done nothing spectacular here but is a good BB man. He deserves a little patience to see what he does with the flexibility he has traded for.

fishmike--we just agve up 3 drafts--for what to try and get other teamz to give us theirs? No it was F stupid--we had 24mm in cap room already--we didnt need to give up J Hill and possibly two more lottery picks--we have no hedge in case we are bad again. After giving away so many picks--why do it again when you ALREADY had 24mm in cap space available to you in 2010? To get Carlos Boozer and Joe Johnson?????? Because the only thing that I can see is the Knicks want two max FA--anything else doesnt make an iota of sense.