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Traded Zach and Crawford for cap flexibility.
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WOODMANnYk
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2/28/2010  5:48 AM
Ok, we traded Z Bo and crawford for cap space for 2010 hopefully thinking we get 2 of the top free agents in the mkt.

Lets say we end up with Joe Johnson and Chris Bosh, was it worth it or we should've stayed with Crawford and ZBO, search for a premiere pg and sign david lee? Would we have gotten better or the 2010 plan is the better approach for the long run..

what you guys think?

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Childs2Dudley
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2/28/2010  5:52 AM
Why? Why are people longing for the days of Zach Randolph and Jamal Crawford? I don't car what they're doing now. They sucked here and this team was going nowhere with these guys as the main pieces. David Lee and Zach Randolph would also be the worst defensive front line in the league.

No, we wouldn't be better then where we are now. We haven't had cap space in 14 years. Sometimes you have to come to grips with your situation and change the status quo. The Knicks are changing the starphuck status quo.

"Our attitude toward life determines life's attitude towards us." - Earl Nightingale
TheGame
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2/28/2010  8:43 AM
Childs2Dudley wrote:Why? Why are people longing for the days of Zach Randolph and Jamal Crawford? I don't car what they're doing now. They sucked here and this team was going nowhere with these guys as the main pieces. David Lee and Zach Randolph would also be the worst defensive front line in the league.

No, we wouldn't be better then where we are now. We haven't had cap space in 14 years. Sometimes you have to come to grips with your situation and change the status quo. The Knicks are changing the starphuck status quo.

Actually the team was 6-5 when we traded Randolph and Crawford. I would have rather traded Crawford (who is easier to replace) and kept Randolph. We would be a much stronger team now with more tradeable assets. Randolph suffered from a bad reputation, but actually, the guy is a top-10 PF in this league and he has started to mature. We would have been better off keeping him.

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BasketballJones
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2/28/2010  10:17 AM
Ah, Zach Randolph and Crawford! Those were the days!
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BRIGGS
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2/28/2010  10:49 AM
Childs2Dudley wrote:Why? Why are people longing for the days of Zach Randolph and Jamal Crawford? I don't car what they're doing now. They sucked here and this team was going nowhere with these guys as the main pieces. David Lee and Zach Randolph would also be the worst defensive front line in the league.

No, we wouldn't be better then where we are now. We haven't had cap space in 14 years. Sometimes you have to come to grips with your situation and change the status quo. The Knicks are changing the starphuck status quo.

GFK--what is your team with two max FA--and you have to follow the CBA not GFK made up fantasy. You wont answer because you cant. Remember you also have to get rid of about 2mm in cap room to get this done at 53mm cap.

RIP Crushalot😞
BRIGGS
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2/28/2010  10:51 AM
BasketballJones wrote:Ah, Zach Randolph and Crawford! Those were the days!

We made a mistake trading Randolph--Crawford was fine. Would the Knicks be in a better position with Randolph right now? Number 1 we wouldve played better basketball the last two years and look at Randolps value now.

The honest question CAN we get 1 player better than Randolph??? thats a tough question and I would argue it will be VERY difficult.

RIP Crushalot😞
Pharzeone
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2/28/2010  11:09 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
BasketballJones wrote:Ah, Zach Randolph and Crawford! Those were the days!

We made a mistake trading Randolph--Crawford was fine. Would the Knicks be in a better position with Randolph right now? Number 1 we wouldve played better basketball the last two years and look at Randolps value now.

The honest question CAN we get 1 player better than Randolph??? thats a tough question and I would argue it will be VERY difficult.

I agree Briggs, people want to lump the trades together rather than look at them independently of each other. Trading Crawful and Jeffries had no impact on the Z-Bo trade. If at the end of the day, you use the cap space you got from Jeffries and Crawful on a wing like Lebron, Wade or even a Joe Johnson that's an upgrade but if you used the cap space you got from Z-Bo on a Boozer or Lee then you regressed and misplayed your position.

I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
sebstar
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2/28/2010  11:11 AM
Lets be real, in hindsight trading Zach for what we did and when we did was a mistake. Zach is a legit 20/10 power forward in his prime. We either could have received assets in exchange or packaged him with Jared Jeffries without having to give up draft picks.

The trade looks real bad now.

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Pharzeone
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2/28/2010  11:14 AM
sebstar wrote:Lets be real, in hindsight trading Zach for what we did and when we did was a mistake. Zach is a legit 20/10 power forward in his prime. We either could have received assets in exchange or packaged him with Jared Jeffries without having to give up draft picks.

The trade looks real bad now.

I think that is the point. In hindsight the trade is a mistake. I don't think anyone is killing Walsh over the move but just stating the case. He was perhaps traded too soon.

I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
oohah
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2/28/2010  11:15 AM
sebstar wrote:Lets be real, in hindsight trading Zach for what we did and when we did was a mistake. Zach is a legit 20/10 power forward in his prime. We either could have received assets in exchange or packaged him with Jared Jeffries without having to give up draft picks.

The trade looks real bad now.

It looked bad back then too.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
BRIGGS
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2/28/2010  11:22 AM
oohah wrote:
sebstar wrote:Lets be real, in hindsight trading Zach for what we did and when we did was a mistake. Zach is a legit 20/10 power forward in his prime. We either could have received assets in exchange or packaged him with Jared Jeffries without having to give up draft picks.

The trade looks real bad now.

It looked bad back then too.

oohah

If you take a serious look--it will be tough to get a player better than Zach. Is Chris Bosh better than Zach?

RIP Crushalot😞
oohah
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2/28/2010  11:23 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/28/2010  11:23 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
If you take a serious look--it will be tough to get a player better than Zach. Is Chris Bosh better than Zach?

Yes, Bosh is better, but Randolph falls into the "close enough" category, unlike Lee.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Markji
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2/28/2010  11:30 AM
Yep, hindsight is great. I too wanted to keep Zach but also trade Eddie. Remember the argument in 2007 was that Zach was hurting Eddie's productivity and the 2 couldn't play together in the same front court. Eddie had value at the trade deadline that year. We would have been in the playoffs these past 2 years. But we didn't. With Dolan at the head of this organization, our karma is terrible.
The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
TheGame
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2/28/2010  11:32 AM
oohah wrote:
sebstar wrote:Lets be real, in hindsight trading Zach for what we did and when we did was a mistake. Zach is a legit 20/10 power forward in his prime. We either could have received assets in exchange or packaged him with Jared Jeffries without having to give up draft picks.

The trade looks real bad now.

It looked bad back then too.

oohah

Exactly, several people (including myself) said trading Randolph the way Walsh did was a mistake, even at the time of the trade. We did not even get a young prospect or a draft pick in return. When you really examine Walsh's moves, they have been haphazard and lacking in any vision. We continue to sell low in all our trades.

Trust the Process
oohah
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2/28/2010  11:34 AM
Markji wrote:Yep, hindsight is great.

I am not sure if that is meant to be a smart ass remark, but I can tell you for sure I was never on board for trading Zach Randolph for Tim Thomas and Mobley.

If there were a search feature you could find this out very easily.

Further, I would have tried to trade other assets to get under the cap and try to maintain at least one star-level player because that helps to attract other stars.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
oohah
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2/28/2010  11:35 AM
TheGame wrote:When you really examine Walsh's moves, they have been haphazard and lacking in any vision. We continue to sell low in all our trades.

I think the proper description is "desperate".

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Markji
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2/28/2010  12:00 PM
oohah wrote:
Markji wrote:Yep, hindsight is great.

I am not sure if that is meant to be a smart ass remark, but I can tell you for sure I was never on board for trading Zach Randolph for Tim Thomas and Mobley.

If there were a search feature you could find this out very easily.

Further, I would have tried to trade other assets to get under the cap and try to maintain at least one star-level player because that helps to attract other stars.

oohah


Sorry, didn't mean it to be smart ass altho it did come out that way. Just an exasperation of extreme frustration. The rest of my post was supporting your thoughts on keeping Zach which I was always for but most of the board at that time were for trading Zach. I think you idea of searching for the Zach trade threads would be very enlightening to see what people felt then and now.
The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
oohah
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2/28/2010  12:05 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/28/2010  12:05 PM
Markji wrote:Sorry, didn't mean it to be smart ass altho it did come out that way. Just an exasperation of extreme frustration. The rest of my post was supporting your thoughts on keeping Zach which I was always for but most of the board at that time were for trading Zach. I think you idea of searching for the Zach trade threads would be very enlightening to see what people felt then and now.

Markji, I wasn't sure of the tone of your comment, that is why I asked.

I can tell you what the results of your search of commentary on this board when the Randolph trade went down: About 5 of us, the few "free thinkers" that post here thought that it was a mistake, and everybody else whooped and hollered with joy, called Randolph a thug, a black hole etc., talked about how he was stealing David Lee's shots and rebounds and proclaimed LeBron as good as signed by the Knicks.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Cosmic
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2/28/2010  12:10 PM
It simply amazes me the number of people who are pining for the return of Zach, Crawford, Hill, Nate, and Jeffries.

May I remind those people: These players led us nowhere but to 23 and 33 win seasons.

They were never leading us anywhere different.

It's good Zach plays well for Memphis and Crawford for Atlanta but they didn't put up wins here as our top 2 players. With their contracts we couldn't build a team around either. So they had to go. They also aren't as good as everyone is now salivating over.

You didn't see enough to understand those five guys weren't winners?

I guess not.

Don't worry guys. We can sign them all to the max in 2011 and let the 28 win seasons roll in. Then just fire coach after coach when they do so.

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Markji
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2/28/2010  12:17 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/28/2010  1:08 PM
Cosmic wrote:It simply amazes me the number of people who are pining for the return of Zach, Crawford, Hill, Nate, and Jeffries.

May I remind those people: These players led us nowhere but to 23 and 33 win seasons.

They were never leading us anywhere different.

It's good Zach plays well for Memphis and Crawford for Atlanta but they didn't put up wins here as our top 2 players. With their contracts we couldn't build a team around either. So they had to go. They also aren't as good as everyone is now salivating over.

You didn't see enough to understand those five guys weren't winners?

I guess not.

Don't worry guys. We can sign them all to the max in 2011 and let the 28 win seasons roll in. Then just fire coach after coach when they do so.


Never said I liked Hill or Jeffries. And Nate was good to trade. I did like Zach. I did like Crawford. I do like Lee. And I never liked Eddie Curry.
I said 2 years ago, I would have traded Eddie C. and Jeffries, and more recently Nate, and Hill.

Zach, since coming to NY has been a good player. MDA was even surprised on how good he was playing; how he came into camp in shape, ready to play; how he picked up on the new system; and how he was well-behaved he was and he stayed out of trouble.

And commented above, we trade our good players and receive much less value in return.

The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
Traded Zach and Crawford for cap flexibility.

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