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One key this summer: De-prioritize Lee
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nychamp
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2/19/2010  11:08 PM
Knicks must get maximum value for their money as they shop for players. To consider Lee even a 2nd string free agent is a mistake. He should be well down on the list. Publicly the Knicks should be respectful and say they want him back, appreciate his contributions, etc., but they should look to only get him at a big discount. They should quietly be happy if he moves on for like $10-11m to another team. Knicks should avoid sentimentality and not overvalue him. Give him lots of public praise, but look towards the open market for the right fit.

If Lee is one of our top 2 guys moving forward, we have a problem.

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arkrud
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2/20/2010  1:04 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/20/2010  1:04 AM
nychamp wrote:Knicks must get maximum value for their money as they shop for players. To consider Lee even a 2nd string free agent is a mistake. He should be well down on the list. Publicly the Knicks should be respectful and say they want him back, appreciate his contributions, etc., but they should look to only get him at a big discount. They should quietly be happy if he moves on for like $10-11m to another team. Knicks should avoid sentimentality and not overvalue him. Give him lots of public praise, but look towards the open market for the right fit.

If Lee is one of our top 2 guys moving forward, we have a problem.

And what exactly the problem is? Is it that there are a bunch of PF/C in NBA who are much better that Lee? Who are they and how you plan to get them?

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Nalod
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2/20/2010  1:55 AM

I think its time we start bashing him as so to soften his departure.

In all actuality we will sign and trade him and its all been agreed upon already.

We do take care of our players and Dlee will get treated right. If there is a market for him we will help him move if he wants a certain amount of money. If Lebron wants him he stays.

Dlee deserves good treatment and the Knicks do take care. Usually too well.

And Marbury was given plenty of consideration over the years. He took and took until there was no goodwill left.

EnySpree
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2/20/2010  2:03 AM
arkrud wrote:
nychamp wrote:Knicks must get maximum value for their money as they shop for players. To consider Lee even a 2nd string free agent is a mistake. He should be well down on the list. Publicly the Knicks should be respectful and say they want him back, appreciate his contributions, etc., but they should look to only get him at a big discount. They should quietly be happy if he moves on for like $10-11m to another team. Knicks should avoid sentimentality and not overvalue him. Give him lots of public praise, but look towards the open market for the right fit.

If Lee is one of our top 2 guys moving forward, we have a problem.

And what exactly the problem is? Is it that there are a bunch of PF/C in NBA who are much better that Lee? Who are they and how you plan to get them?

It's the same tired Bosh/Amare/Lee debate we seem to have here every now and then...

Listen...the respect for Lee's game is there...he has the resume now since he made the all-star team. He's damn good but the market says he's 10 mill per from jump right now...

I agree...spit that loyalty **** all you want but hold those chips for the bigger dogs in Lebron, Wade, Bosh and Amare...if those guys sign back with their teams or decide to join a guy on another team...so be it...believe it or not Lee should be the fall back plan...realistically that fall back plan is what the knicks will probably end up doing.

35 mill is alot of bread fellas...

Question...is Amare a max player??? would he settle between 10-11 mill??? would Joe Johnson settle for 10-11??? Since Lee, Sergio, and T-mac were on the roster...could they be resigned taking the knicks over the cap???

A nice line-up would be:

Lee
T-mac
Amare
Sergio
Joe Johnson

with Gallo, Wilson, Eddie House, Toney Douglas for next season...

Is that even possible and would you guys be satisfied with that team???

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TMS
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2/20/2010  6:21 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/20/2010  7:04 AM
i would seriously look at sign & trade options for D Lee so we can realistically pursue Lebron & another max FA heavily this summer... if you choose to re-up D Lee for next season, you're faced with him & Curry taking up $22 mil in cap space, which severely hampers your flexibility to make other signings... Lebron is not coming to NY to play with D Lee & just 1 other FA valued around $10 mil along w/Gallo, Wilson, TD, Curry & minimum salary filler.

maybe look to move D Lee to Phoenix in a deal for Amare (rumored to be Lebron's personally preferred running mate) & try to include Curry's contract in the process... say something like Lee, Wilson, Douglas & Curry for Amare, Barbosa & Dudley... if u could swing off something like this, you still have room to sign a 3rd impact FA to play w/Lebron & Amare... T-Mac could come into the plan as your 3rd option if he works out this season & you still can re-sign Sergio & House to deals... after all that, u have the following:

C - Amare $16.5 mil
PF - Lebron $16.5 mil
SF - Gallo $3.3 mil
SG - T-Mac $5.5 mil
PG - Barbosa $7.1 mil
6 - Sergio $2.5 mil
7 - House $1.5 mil
8 - Dudley $2.1 mil
9 - 2nd round pick $450K
10 - 2nd round pick $450K
11 - minimum salary $450K
12 - minimum salary $450K

that comes to $56.8 mil in total on the payroll.

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TMS
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2/20/2010  6:24 AM
A nice line-up would be:

Lee
T-mac
Amare
Sergio
Joe Johnson

with Gallo, Wilson, Eddie House, Toney Douglas for next season...

Is that even possible and would you guys be satisfied with that team???

not possible if u throw in Curry's $11 mil into the mix

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TheGame
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2/20/2010  8:40 AM
the bottomline is that we have no draft picks. So everyone on this team needs to be two-way players, because we cannot really fill in the gaps other than with FAs that are going to cost. Lee plays no defense. IMO, our number 1 target needs to be Bosh. While Bosh is certainly not a defensive stallworth. He is a larger presence and has better defensive instincts than Lee. If we sign Lebron and Bosh, then Bosh will likely play center with Gallo moving to PF. We need a center that can play defense and Bosh fits that role better than Lee. So I agree, we cannot go into next season playing Lee at center again.
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TMS
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2/20/2010  8:56 AM
i'm hearing different sources reporting that Bosh wants to be the main guy on the team he's on, so that means he's not as open to playing second fiddle to Lebron in NY... i think dj mentioned this as well on a recent thread.
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arkrud
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2/20/2010  9:58 AM
TMS wrote:i'm hearing different sources reporting that Bosh wants to be the main guy on the team he's on, so that means he's not as open to playing second fiddle to Lebron in NY... i think dj mentioned this as well on a recent thread.

It is very unlikely that top FAs will consider to play together. And I think the way they want to dominate the position this might be not a good recepe for winning anyways.
All big 2 on my memory (Shaq/Cobe, Dunkin/Robinson, Mailmen/Stokton) must be complimentary players facilitator-finisher or offense-defense and having 2 scorers is not efficient and I think never worked too well.
Having LeBron with 2-3 complimentary solid players who do their thing very good is much better that have another star. Same for guys like Wade, Carmelo, Durant.
Bosh and Amare are not max players but they will be paid like max and this will put a lot of pressure on them. I am not sure they will be up to the task.
Lee is perfect complimentary player for any top FA especially with another defensive specialist (like Camby type at C).
SaT for Bosh will be upgrade but it can close the door for LeBron/Wade type if they want to get all the glory (which they do).

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Panos
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2/20/2010  10:00 AM
TMS wrote:i'm hearing different sources reporting that Bosh wants to be the main guy on the team he's on, so that means he's not as open to playing second fiddle to Lebron in NY... i think dj mentioned this as well on a recent thread.

Then he's a damn fool. Enjoy your championship-less career, Chris. He'll change his tune when he's 34 and broken down.

TMS
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2/20/2010  10:25 AM
arkrud wrote:It is very unlikely that top FAs will consider to play together.

reports say Amare wanted to go to MIA & MIA wanted Amare, so we can assume Amare & Wade are open to the idea of playing together... Lebron wanted Amare in CLE too, so he's obviously open to playing w/another top FA this summer... i don't think D Lee's name is in the conversation when we're talking about guys who will attract a top FA to NY this summer... he's a very good player but he's not a drawing card... if we miss out on Lebron we're looking at guys like Joe Johnson or Rudy Gay to be the main guy with D Lee playing beside them... that's good enough to get you to 5 or 6 seed in the East but u won't win championships w/that formula.

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TMS
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2/20/2010  10:26 AM
Panos wrote:
TMS wrote:i'm hearing different sources reporting that Bosh wants to be the main guy on the team he's on, so that means he's not as open to playing second fiddle to Lebron in NY... i think dj mentioned this as well on a recent thread.

Then he's a damn fool. Enjoy your championship-less career, Chris. He'll change his tune when he's 34 and broken down.

i agree, he'd be a fool not to want to play second fiddle to Lebron or Wade.

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JrZyHuStLa
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2/20/2010  10:41 AM
Panos wrote:
TMS wrote:i'm hearing different sources reporting that Bosh wants to be the main guy on the team he's on, so that means he's not as open to playing second fiddle to Lebron in NY... i think dj mentioned this as well on a recent thread.

Then he's a damn fool. Enjoy your championship-less career, Chris. He'll change his tune when he's 34 and broken down.

Yup. You can't want to be the man when your team is 5th best in the East. At least lead your team to a top 4 record in the conference, and then maybe you won't have to worry about playing second fiddle.

If the playoffs started today, Atlanta beats Toronto in 6. That's not the make up of being the "the man".

King1
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2/20/2010  11:06 AM
Lee is probably the 6th best free agent this year. He will get a fair contract somewhere. If he can average 20 a game playng with Duhon and Jeffires what could he do with a point guard and a marquee player? I wouldnt be surprised if from here on out Lee plays as well as Amare does. If you get Lee for 11 and Amare max that is a no brainer. Amare has had a all star point for years and never got to the championship game.
TMS
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2/20/2010  11:09 AM
King1 wrote:If he can average 20 a game playng with Duhon and Jeffires what could he do with a point guard and a marquee player?

i'm guessing he'll average a lot less points because the offense will no longer focus on him running the P&R on every single possession & other guys will be getting his shots.

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markvmc
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2/20/2010  11:25 AM
Yeah, whatever Duhon's faults, inability to set Lee up for scores is not amongst them. Lee might well play 5 minutes less or so somewhere else (given that we've been asking him to play crazy minutes here).
Moonangie
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2/20/2010  11:30 AM
Lee does a lot more than P&R. He is solid out to 18ft and gets plenty of put-backs, tip-ins and slams. He is a versatile and efficient scorer. Not a bad passer either. But he is a huge defensive liability. I don't see us resigning Lee without a new center to take care of business down low. This year has shown that you can't win if you just let opposing guards blast to the hole with impunity.

Once David establishes a defensive game, he will be one of the most interesting players in the NBA. But I am not sure it will ever happen. Then again, Lee has shown resilience and an ability to up his game (e.g., jump shooting this year). So you never know. Lebron doesn't necessarily need another go to guy with him, since he is the man. He needs effective role players.

fishmike
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2/20/2010  11:38 AM
deprioritize Lee = one the worst ideas i have read around here. If you want to build a great team you fill the roster with a certain type of player:
guys that play both ends
guys that shoot high %
guys that can play mulitple positions
guys that get their offense in the game flow
guys that can make other guys better on one end of the court or the other

Sorry.. but Lee falls into every catagory. He's not a good defender, but he has improved and he a glass cleaner and boxing out and cleaning the defensive glass is part of playing defense, so saying he does nothing there (as many here do) is just wrong.

We have a guy that handles the ball, passes like a guard, doesnt turn the ball over, gives you 11+ rebounds a game, scores 20 a game with out needing the ball in his hands, shoots 55%, has worked hard on his game, gotten better every year and has a great attitude and you want to "de-prioritize" him.

cmon man... Lee is part of the solution here, not the problem.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
TMS
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2/20/2010  11:42 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/20/2010  11:43 AM
David Lee has been taking 15 shot attempts per game... to say he "scores 20 a game with out needing the ball in his hands" is completely false... the offense has centered around D Lee all year & as a result his scoring average has increased by 4 ppg while his shot attempts have gone up 4 per game from last year's average.
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fishmike
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2/20/2010  11:44 AM
Moonangie wrote:Lee does a lot more than P&R. He is solid out to 18ft and gets plenty of put-backs, tip-ins and slams. He is a versatile and efficient scorer. Not a bad passer either. But he is a huge defensive liability. I don't see us resigning Lee without a new center to take care of business down low. This year has shown that you can't win if you just let opposing guards blast to the hole with impunity.

Once David establishes a defensive game, he will be one of the most interesting players in the NBA. But I am not sure it will ever happen. Then again, Lee has shown resilience and an ability to up his game (e.g., jump shooting this year). So you never know. Lebron doesn't necessarily need another go to guy with him, since he is the man. He needs effective role players.

exactly.. and rebounding is part of the team's defense. Who cares if you hold your man to 33% FGs if you cant clean the glass. Eventually their shots will go in.

Lee isnt a max guy. But he's every bit as good as the other frontcourt guys in that price range. Rashard Lewis, Jamison, Odom, Troy Murphy, Boozer, David West... not quite all stars but damn good players. Lee deserves a good contract and we would be idiots not to offer it too him.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
One key this summer: De-prioritize Lee

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