I think we can all agree that David Lee's #'s merit all star consideration this year. While I believe Lee has been playing very well this year and has shown improvement in his passing, ability to hit the 15 footer and more active defensively as of late. Seems like each year, Lee has worked on an aspect of his game, which coaches and GM's like when conisdering who they wanna woo in free agency. While he wont be voted in by the fans (they're picking iverson and mcgrady as starters for god's sake!), I believe he will get the nod from the coaches and be selected.

This is great for David personally, but as a Knicks fan, is it the best scenario? Knowing what the 2k10 plan is and how the knicks will be pressed to pay Lebron along with other pieces to make this team a contender, does Lee making the all-star team = him not being a knick next year?

My basis is that right now, you can re-sign Lee at a semi reasonable rate (lots of folks been talking $10-12M per) and with a little Enron accounting, make it work so that you can re-sign him without jeaopordizing 'the plan'. If he makes the all star team, that means there are coaches out there thinking about him hard. and, if they're thinking about him, then they're also thinking about how he could fit into their systems next year and beyond.

with that said, won't that knock him out of the Knick's future plans - demand determines his market which means I can easily see him getting offers in excess of $12-14M.

Thoughts?

jimimou wrote:2009-10 Statistics
PPG 18.9
RPG 10.90
APG 2.9
EFF + 25.06

I think we can all agree that David Lee's #'s merit all star consideration this year. While I believe Lee has been playing very well this year and has shown improvement in his passing, ability to hit the 15 footer and more active defensively as of late. Seems like each year, Lee has worked on an aspect of his game, which coaches and GM's like when conisdering who they wanna woo in free agency. While he wont be voted in by the fans (they're picking iverson and mcgrady as starters for god's sake!), I believe he will get the nod from the coaches and be selected.

This is great for David personally, but as a Knicks fan, is it the best scenario? Knowing what the 2k10 plan is and how the knicks will be pressed to pay Lebron along with other pieces to make this team a contender, does Lee making the all-star team = him not being a knick next year?

My basis is that right now, you can re-sign Lee at a semi reasonable rate (lots of folks been talking $10-12M per) and with a little Enron accounting, make it work so that you can re-sign him without jeaopordizing 'the plan'. If he makes the all star team, that means there are coaches out there thinking about him hard. and, if they're thinking about him, then they're also thinking about how he could fit into their systems next year and beyond.

with that said, won't that knock him out of the Knick's future plans - demand determines his market which means I can easily see him getting offers in excess of $12-14M.

Thoughts?

If you look at the past Walsh has always brought his own guys back. Harrington, Artest, Reggie, Croshere, Jalen Rose.. all those guys resigned w/ Walsh (even though Jalen was traded a year later).

I am optimistic we will find a way.

I will never ever subscribe to one of our players becoming an all star being a bad thing.

He's a home grown Knick!!!!!

the salary issues are nullified somewhat cuz if he becomes higher in demand because of his AS status, that also attracts other bignames to NY to play with him... i doubt his value will get into max territory regardless of how he plays the rest of this season anyway

TMS wrote:

King1 wrote:Good players love playing with David. He doenst need shots, he is a great passer, and he will do the dirty work on the boards. I just want the Knicks to make the playoffs and not give Joe Johnson or Chris Bosh a max contract because there is no way they deserve it.

if Lebron would sign here w/o Bosh, then i'm all for keeping David Lee... how can u not like the guy? he's a true team player in every sense of the word... i just have my doubts that Lebron would come here unless another max guy is also coming on board... if i'm wrong that's great.

Sure he would. He just has to accept that the second max guy will arrive in the second year. That shouldn't be a problem as he needs the first year to meld with this team and make it his own. That won't require a second max FA. It's not like Lebron thinks "Ok, I join the NYK and it will be instant championship". He realizes that going to any new team will require a period of adjustment to build cohesion.

Ira wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the Knicks aren't allowed to sign Lee or Nate until after the season.

no, by signing a one year deal the way they did we DID retain their bird rights. i think we can give both something like a 120% of what they make this year in their next deal... i think the max we can offer david is a deal starting at $8.4M with 12.5% raises every year.

which I THINK works out to this:

yr1 $8.4M
yr2 $9.45M
yr3 $10.63M
yr4 $11.9M
yr5 $13.45M
yr6 $15.137M

total 6yrs $69M total. i think that is more than fair for david. that's a richard jefferson level deal and it's higher than what a guy like troy murphy ever got. you throw in this year at $7M and that's 7 years $76M total. plus a potential $1M playoff bonus. hey, i hope he earns that bonus, too!

Anyway if D Lee is not an all star player--who exactly is?

crzymdups wrote:

Ira wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the Knicks aren't allowed to sign Lee or Nate until after the season.

no, by signing a one year deal the way they did we DID retain their bird rights. i think we can give both something like a 120% of what they make this year in their next deal... i think the max we can offer david is a deal starting at $8.4M with 12.5% raises every year.

which I THINK works out to this:

yr1 $8.4M
yr2 $9.45M
yr3 $10.63M
yr4 $11.9M
yr5 $13.45M
yr6 $15.137M

total 6yrs $69M total. i think that is more than fair for david. that's a richard jefferson level deal and it's higher than what a guy like troy murphy ever got. you throw in this year at $7M and that's 7 years $76M total. plus a potential $1M playoff bonus. hey, i hope he earns that bonus, too!

So, can we sign Lee to an extension now as Ira asked? It would be nice to just get it done now. We will have to renounce Lee's rights at the end of this year in order to get rid of his cap hold before we can sign Lebron. When we do that, I don't believe we can do the 12.5% raises. (Correct me here)

crzymdups wrote:

Ira wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the Knicks aren't allowed to sign Lee or Nate until after the season.

no, by signing a one year deal the way they did we DID retain their bird rights. i think we can give both something like a 120% of what they make this year in their next deal... i think the max we can offer david is a deal starting at $8.4M with 12.5% raises every year.

which I THINK works out to this:

yr1 $8.4M
yr2 $9.45M
yr3 $10.63M
yr4 $11.9M
yr5 $13.45M
yr6 $15.137M

total 6yrs $69M total. i think that is more than fair for david. that's a richard jefferson level deal and it's higher than what a guy like troy murphy ever got. you throw in this year at $7M and that's 7 years $76M total. plus a potential $1M playoff bonus. hey, i hope he earns that bonus, too!

Sounds good to me. I say forget the 2 Max FAs, esp. if we can't unload Jeffries or Curry (at the very least, JJ's showing he actually has some value as a decent glue guy for us). It's nothing more than a pipe dream if we don't unload either guy. Moving on, Lee's gotta be that 2nd guy for us now. He's proving it on a nightly basis. I think we might have a shot if we offer him a back-loaded contract like the one crzymdups suggested above. For me this would be a really nice off-season:

(1) At the end of June, get 2 decent prospects with the 2 2nd round picks in the draft -- maybe Yancy Gates & Greivis Vasquez. Gates is a big 6'9"/260 lb. PF from Cincy who is loaded with potential and Maryland's Vasquez has really elevated his play the last 7, 8 games or so after a poor start. 6'6" PG/SG who can contribute in almost every area on the court. Not the most accurate marksman but this dude can go off for a triple-double at any time - he's got that type of overall ability right across the board. This kid's well-rounded, heady and a leader. Or with Hill & Douglas hopefully ready to assume bigger roles maybe you try to trade up into the 1st round or just go after totally different guys in the 2nd round (maybe use one on a legit big 2 like Stephenson, Landesberg or Manny Harris).

(2) When July 1st comes, sign LeBron James and re-sign David Lee.

(3) Now pretty much right at the cap, hopefully the mid-level kicks in (need someone to confirm) and we can find a way to split it on CJ Watson and Shannon Brown for backcourt depth (Brown's a guy LeBron knows from when he was with the Cavs). Getting Watson & Brown was Briggs' idea and I think it's tremendous. I'd love to get both of those guys on board with reasonable deals as part of the MLE. If we can't get both, Watson's the more important of the 2 I would think (Chandler's really starting to take off at the 2 position and we still have Douglas who can play some 2. So could AD Vassallo - see below. So could LeBron ).

(4) Sign AD Vassallo to an NBA contract using part of the LLE. 6'6" undrafted SG from VA Tech signed a one-year deal to play in France this year (Paris-Levallois), where he's tearing it up -- 19.3 PPG, 49.4% FG, 43.8 3 pt% (on over 6 attempts per), 90.6% FTs, almost 5 RPG. Not a high-wire act of an athlete by any means but he's a big, crafty, smart, & skilled wing with a killer shooting stroke. He'd be awesome here. I wanted him after the draft last summer even though we were crowded. I really think he's one of the best-kept secrets out there. I'm tellin' ya, I saw him play quite a few times last year - he's got elements to his game that suggest Francisco Garcia & dare I say Allan Houston. He definitely could have a productive role in the NBA as a better shooting Matt Barnes-type. He's a perimeter player right up D'Antoni's alley. With his IQ, passing ability, handle and shooting touch, I think Mike would love this kid if he doesn't know about him already.

I don't think this would be terrible provided we're able to disperse the funds correctly:

1 - Watson/Douglas/Vasquez
2 - LeBron/Brown/Vassallo
3 - Gallo/Chandler/Jeffries/Landry
4 - Hill/Bender/Gates
5 - Lee/Hill/Curry

That's 15 total players. A little over-crowded I guess (Shannon Brown and AD Vassallo together might be a little overkill) but I could really get into that team. Plenty of skill, youth & depth at every position with the star player at the top in LeBron. I don't know man, make any sense? First of all, whether you like any of these guys or not, could it be doable salary cap-wise? Even if the MLE & LLE don't kick in if you're "right at the cap," wouldn't they kick in after we signed our draft picks? That would put us over (I know you can go over to sign draft picks) and then we should be able to use both exceptions, no? I'm not sure...