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what is JJ's value on the open market?
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fishmike
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1/8/2010  9:02 AM
if your watching these games you can see JJ is as important as any player we have on the floor, possibly save Lee. Regardless he's very important to what the Knicks are doing right now. Obviously his cap # next year is a major problem but if one thing is clear its not a wasted roster spot. This guy plays great in this system and really is making guys around him better. He's got the highest +/- on the team.

Do you think offering him a 6 year contract at the end of this season makes sense? Do you think he would agree to take it?
6 years $30mm breaks down like this:
3.8
4.2
4.6
5.1
5.7
6.3
29.7 (total)

That would save us $3mm on the cap next year.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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SteveSmith
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1/8/2010  9:15 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/8/2010  9:15 AM
Wouldnt we owe his 7 mm next year to him? Is it that easy to break the contract, even if signing a new one?
TMS
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1/8/2010  9:15 AM
why would u wanna extend this guy to 6 years??? the whole point to this offseason is to attract Lebron to sign here this offseason... the Knicks will also either extend David Lee or make a play for another big name FA to be Lebron's Robin... they will also have Gallo, Chandler & Hill still left on the roster, as well as some future draft picks that they will inevitably use on at least 1 or 2 more frontcourt players you have to assume over that span... so where do u want Fishlips to see playing time to make it worth your while to lock him up til 2016? (holy, i just got shivers down my spine saying that)
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
fishmike
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1/8/2010  9:20 AM
SteveSmith wrote:Wouldnt we owe his 7 mm next year to him? Is it that easy to break the contract, even if signing a new one?

no.. this contract would be under the assumption that he opts out. He's got a player option for the $7mm.

Essentially your asking him to take a paycut, but rewarding him with a long guaranteed contract.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
EwingsGlass
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1/8/2010  9:29 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/8/2010  9:30 AM
I hate to admit it, but that might be the way to go with him. I think it stresses the importance of removing Eddy's contract. I honestly feel bad for Eddy cause he clearly worked hard to get where he is, and I hope that he does well, its just that his contract doesn't suit this team. I would dangle a future number 1 with Eddy to see if anyone bites on it (Eddy, Mobley, Hill and a future 1 for McGrady? Hell, I'll give them Douglas too). The only question left is whether to re-sign David Lee. Dropping JJ's salary, Hill and Curry would give us enough money to sign two max FAs and keep David Lee... See Below.

PG Joe Johnson $16.2M
SG Chandler $2.1M
SF Lebron $16.2M
PF Gallo $3.3M
C Lee $10.4M
Jeffries $3.8M (as per your formula)
Bender $500k
Landry $500k
2nd rd dp $500k
2nd rd dp $500k
= $54M.

You know I gonna spin wit it
franco12
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1/8/2010  9:32 AM
I don't see how he keeps this level of play up. Right now, he is playing out of his mind. I could see 1 or 2 more years like this out of him, but to extend him 6 years?
TMS
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1/8/2010  9:35 AM
translation: "This is madness!"

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TheGame
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1/8/2010  9:40 AM
fishmike wrote:if your watching these games you can see JJ is as important as any player we have on the floor, possibly save Lee. Regardless he's very important to what the Knicks are doing right now. Obviously his cap # next year is a major problem but if one thing is clear its not a wasted roster spot. This guy plays great in this system and really is making guys around him better. He's got the highest +/- on the team.

Do you think offering him a 6 year contract at the end of this season makes sense? Do you think he would agree to take it?
6 years $30mm breaks down like this:
3.8
4.2
4.6
5.1
5.7
6.3
29.7 (total)

That would save us $3mm on the cap next year.

I don't think the CBA works like that. If you extend a guy, you still owe him the last year on his deal. The extension starts the following season after his deal would have expired.

Trust the Process
Panos
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1/8/2010  10:15 AM
TheGame wrote:
fishmike wrote:if your watching these games you can see JJ is as important as any player we have on the floor, possibly save Lee. Regardless he's very important to what the Knicks are doing right now. Obviously his cap # next year is a major problem but if one thing is clear its not a wasted roster spot. This guy plays great in this system and really is making guys around him better. He's got the highest +/- on the team.

Do you think offering him a 6 year contract at the end of this season makes sense? Do you think he would agree to take it?
6 years $30mm breaks down like this:
3.8
4.2
4.6
5.1
5.7
6.3
29.7 (total)

That would save us $3mm on the cap next year.

I don't think the CBA works like that. If you extend a guy, you still owe him the last year on his deal. The extension starts the following season after his deal would have expired.

Its not the last year on his deal until he exercises his option.
fishmike
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1/8/2010  10:16 AM
TheGame wrote:
fishmike wrote:if your watching these games you can see JJ is as important as any player we have on the floor, possibly save Lee. Regardless he's very important to what the Knicks are doing right now. Obviously his cap # next year is a major problem but if one thing is clear its not a wasted roster spot. This guy plays great in this system and really is making guys around him better. He's got the highest +/- on the team.

Do you think offering him a 6 year contract at the end of this season makes sense? Do you think he would agree to take it?
6 years $30mm breaks down like this:
3.8
4.2
4.6
5.1
5.7
6.3
29.7 (total)

That would save us $3mm on the cap next year.

I don't think the CBA works like that. If you extend a guy, you still owe him the last year on his deal. The extension starts the following season after his deal would have expired.


its not an extension. Its a new contract. JJ opts out (he's got a player option) and we resign him to the above deal.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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1/8/2010  10:25 AM
franco12 wrote:I don't see how he keeps this level of play up. Right now, he is playing out of his mind. I could see 1 or 2 more years like this out of him, but to extend him 6 years?
this is exactly the JJ that Isiah signed 4 years ago. We havent had a coach yet who has put him in position to suceed. JJ doesnt fill out the stat sheet. He gets some blocks, but he's not a good scorer, shooter, he's an average rebounder and has an average handle, but he's OK at everything and he's a LONG 6'11 guy who has great quickness and can defend a large area. He's a great in the zone and the traps that Wash used to employ.

This isnt a guy I would target, but he's here and his cap # is a problem. Also he's proven his worth. He's a good soldier and his play is translating directly into wins. He's making guys around him better. ESPECIALLY if we get a guy like Lebron in here JJ really is a nice glue player to have. The 6 year deal is his reward for whats essentially taking a paycut.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Panos
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1/8/2010  10:35 AM
problem is that at the end of the contract he's once again grossly overpaid. We revisit the same problem in 5 years.
EwingsGlass
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1/8/2010  10:37 AM
I think people are clearly missing the opt out aspect of the deal. JJ at $6.8m is a cap-killer. JJ at $3.8m is a good deal. Economically, I rather pay JJ $30m over 6 (4m in 2010/11) than $6.8m in 2010/11. Its a no-brainer to me.

As for keeping him around, his +/- are good evidence of his worth. Other team's offenses haven't figured out how to work around JJ covering their PG. He disrupts their offense. I wonder what his effectiveness is once other teams devise a strategy to work around this. The simplest answer seems to be to initiate the offense with a pick cause JJ always seems to switch off the pick.

You know I gonna spin wit it
AnubisADL
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1/8/2010  10:37 AM
TMS wrote:translation: "This is madness!"

I agree. The guy has no value when he is making 7 million per when teams are trying to avoid the tax.

NY Knicks - Retirement home for players and GMs
EwingsGlass
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1/8/2010  10:39 AM
I hate the reply with a picture concept. I guess cause Xerxes said it, it must be true...
You know I gonna spin wit it
Markji
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1/8/2010  10:42 AM
fishmike wrote:
TheGame wrote:
fishmike wrote:if your watching these games you can see JJ is as important as any player we have on the floor, possibly save Lee. Regardless he's very important to what the Knicks are doing right now. Obviously his cap # next year is a major problem but if one thing is clear its not a wasted roster spot. This guy plays great in this system and really is making guys around him better. He's got the highest +/- on the team.

Do you think offering him a 6 year contract at the end of this season makes sense? Do you think he would agree to take it?
6 years $30mm breaks down like this:
3.8
4.2
4.6
5.1
5.7
6.3
29.7 (total)

That would save us $3mm on the cap next year.

I don't think the CBA works like that. If you extend a guy, you still owe him the last year on his deal. The extension starts the following season after his deal would have expired.


its not an extension. Its a new contract. JJ opts out (he's got a player option) and we resign him to the above deal.

Fish, this concept is a great idea. If JJ renounces his player option for 2010 - then his salary is off the books ($6,883,400). He does this because we have agreed to resign him. I think 6 yrs is way too long. But 3 years starting at $4 million then $4.5 and $5 million) might work for him. We save $2.8 million for the all important 2010 and keep JJ for 3 years as a good defensive player at a more reasonable salary. But a higher salary than he would get from any other team, so he makes up the money he renounced from his player option.

(Note to others: It may be just me, but I find it offensive to call Jared Jeffries "Fishlips". With all of the other racial discussions that have ensued here, I am surprised that no one else has commented on this. Anyway, try "JJ" if you can't call him Jared or Jeffries - it is also easier to type. Thanks.)

The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
TMS
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1/8/2010  10:45 AM
EwingsGlass wrote:I hate the reply with a picture concept. I guess cause Xerxes said it, it must be true...

Xerxes knew what he was talking about... u don't get a million guys to join your army if you're some scrub military leader who doesn't know how to put an army together.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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1/8/2010  10:49 AM
Markji wrote:(Note to others: It may be just me, but I find it offensive to call Jared Jeffries "Fishlips". With all of the other racial discussions that have ensued here, I am surprised that no one else has commented on this. Anyway, try "JJ" if you can't call him Jared or Jeffries - it is also easier to type. Thanks.)

why would calling Jeffries "Fishlips" be taken as a racial slur? i been calling Jerome James "Big Turd" for the longest... sorry, but i'll keep on calling Fishlips Fishlips as long as he makes that retarded Fish face everytime he gets whistled for a foul... not trying to offend anyone here unless you also have lips that resemble a fish.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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1/8/2010  10:56 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/8/2010  10:57 AM
EwingsGlass wrote:I think people are clearly missing the opt out aspect of the deal. JJ at $6.8m is a cap-killer. JJ at $3.8m is a good deal. Economically, I rather pay JJ $30m over 6 (4m in 2010/11) than $6.8m in 2010/11. Its a no-brainer to me.

As for keeping him around, his +/- are good evidence of his worth. Other team's offenses haven't figured out how to work around JJ covering their PG. He disrupts their offense. I wonder what his effectiveness is once other teams devise a strategy to work around this. The simplest answer seems to be to initiate the offense with a pick cause JJ always seems to switch off the pick.

ur talking about having FL on the roster through the age of 34... that's just nuts... a 2-3 year extension at most, but i'd still much rather have the extra $4 mil in cap savings... that could mean the difference between signing a max player or signing a 2nd tier guy... u can get players like FL every year in free agency... Marcus Camby is head & shoulders better than FL & u can sign him to a short term deal if u want to... give me someone like Chris Anderson over FL & then i'd be down with locking him up longterm on that contract (that's pretty much what he's making in DEN)

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
crzymdups
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1/8/2010  10:57 AM
fishmike wrote:if your watching these games you can see JJ is as important as any player we have on the floor, possibly save Lee. Regardless he's very important to what the Knicks are doing right now. Obviously his cap # next year is a major problem but if one thing is clear its not a wasted roster spot. This guy plays great in this system and really is making guys around him better. He's got the highest +/- on the team.

Do you think offering him a 6 year contract at the end of this season makes sense? Do you think he would agree to take it?
6 years $30mm breaks down like this:
3.8
4.2
4.6
5.1
5.7
6.3
29.7 (total)

That would save us $3mm on the cap next year.

if this is legal it's a great idea.

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