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Anyone else think banning Nate is starting to cost us games?
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franco12
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12/28/2009  7:43 AM
Last two games & when teams start to pack things in, Nate is our best disrupter.

True, he is a knucklehead, but I don't understand what he's done differently this year vs. last year.

Except maybe hurt MDA's feelings? Maybe he flat out said to MDA that his system isn't all its worked up to be without Nash & Amare to win games for him.

It would be great if we could trade Nate & get something decent back. But there is no way we get an asset back that can help us win this year as much as Nate can.

If MDA can't harness Nate- and he's not hinting at Nate getting back in the rotation, so he's clearly not going to- then MDA needs to take a look in the mirror and think about what kind of coach he is?

And his 'Soft' label is starting to look highly deserved.

I mean, can he only coach super-coachable players like Nash?

Why the F are we paying him the kind of money? His job is to get the most out of this roster. Was he surprised when Nate showed up in camp? Did Walsh go against MDA and sign him?

AUTOADVERT
orangeblobman
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Nauru
12/28/2009  7:51 AM
Nah, it's not costing our games. He play Nate all this time, we lose even more games. I cite the example of one Hughes, Larry, who was in a similar position. Because Hughes is older and not a goofball, no one really cared. So Hughes took it like a man, shut his mouth, and when there was a chance for him to come in, he came in. Nate needs to do the same thing, he needs to shut up, wait this out, and when he gets that next chance he has to prove that he is serious about doing what the coach says. He has to behave!

I don't see how a misbehaving 5'7 jerk-face would help us win more games. I think we won, what, 8 of 13 now? That is still good. And I remind everyone that we already had a two game losing streak during this awesome stretch. Really, we balled two very good teams very hard! We were in the Spurs game until the very end.

WE AIN'T NOWHERE WITH THIS BUM CHOKER IN CARMELO. GIVE ME STARKS'S 2-21 ANY DAY OVER THIS LACKLUSTER CLUSTEREFF.
Markji
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12/28/2009  8:46 AM
I just posted this in the game thread and think it more appropriate here. Sorry for the duplication.

I agree that we ideally should put Nate in off the bench to give the team an offensive boost when the offense is sputtering. Every good team has a player like that, and Nate should be ours. I personally don't like short rotations because you keep too many players unhappy and cold. And you burn out the starters.

However, MDA is the coach and he should have authority and control of the team. He was given that responsibility and so I will go with it. Is it personal with Nate? Probably. But every coach has his ways with dealing with players and good coaches are by nature, authoritarian control freaks.

One thought on this. How is Nate looked upon by the other Knick players? When Nate was benched the team responded positively by playing well. I think MDA has given Nate an ultimatum and Nate hasn't succumbed to following it? And therefore not playing. MDA is not going to give up his control of all of the players. Remember when Isiah gave Marbury an ultimatum for leaving the team and Isiah said he won't start Marbury. But when Marbury came back, Isiah started him....and promptly lost the team and any respect he had from the other players. Could be a similar situation.

The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
MS
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12/28/2009  9:22 AM
I think it was the perfect storm that really led to Nate being viewed as the scapegoat.

Al Harington is probably the most selfish player on the team. Always looks for his own shot and although he has played well always does it one on one. Takes shots that kill the offense and gets a pass.

We took out a Suns team we match up well against, an undermaned blazer team, and a hawks team that had one of there best players thrown out. We aren't really beating any really solid teams. It was a nice run, but we are still terrible and he is playing bender over guys we really need to get rid of.

Duhon sucked for the first half of the season and his play was a major reason for us being so far under .500. While I like Mike, how many times do you see him playing around with guys he coached on team USA or making jokes during impounds passes???

If you don't like a guy that's fine. Tell the ****ing GM and get on the same page. It's his fault and his fault alone.

Donnie I'm not going to play Stephon I'm going to embarrass him to prove a point!

Donnie I'm going to use Nate to prove a point!

He is creating the distractions

Just coach the ****ing team! Pull players when they are turning it over and taking terrible shots and not trying on defense. I think it's evident that this team doesn't have scoreres and we are going to need to play the kid eventually.

franco12
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12/28/2009  9:57 AM
Markji wrote:I just posted this in the game thread and think it more appropriate here. Sorry for the duplication.

I agree that we ideally should put Nate in off the bench to give the team an offensive boost when the offense is sputtering. Every good team has a player like that, and Nate should be ours. I personally don't like short rotations because you keep too many players unhappy and cold. And you burn out the starters.

However, MDA is the coach and he should have authority and control of the team. He was given that responsibility and so I will go with it. Is it personal with Nate? Probably. But every coach has his ways with dealing with players and good coaches are by nature, authoritarian control freaks.

One thought on this. How is Nate looked upon by the other Knick players? When Nate was benched the team responded positively by playing well. I think MDA has given Nate an ultimatum and Nate hasn't succumbed to following it? And therefore not playing. MDA is not going to give up his control of all of the players. Remember when Isiah gave Marbury an ultimatum for leaving the team and Isiah said he won't start Marbury. But when Marbury came back, Isiah started him....and promptly lost the team and any respect he had from the other players. Could be a similar situation.

I agree the players responded positively - that was what led to us winning games - that and playing sucky teams.

But, I haven't seen anything from MDA that implies Nate can, through some contrition, get back into the rotation.

And that is the problem I have with him.

Nate is a lot of things, but he is our only player that can break down the other team and get off his own shot.

Unless you count Harringtons whirling, heads down turnover laden forays into the paint.

babyKnicks
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12/28/2009  10:16 AM
Nope. Not at all.
Let's go Knicks. That's amare
Uptown
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12/28/2009  10:23 AM
WOW! So not playing Nate cost us a couple of games? How about the fact that the Heat and possible western conference championship contending Spurs are better teams than we are. We need to stop being to over-anylitical. This is a players league. Game are won more often than not in crunch time/down the stretch when the best players step up. Wade stepped in in the 4th and beat us. We have no one to macth him. Al Harrington tried but proved he's not a number#1 or #2 option. Tony Parker, Ginobili and Duncan stepped up down the stretch. We have no one on our team as good as any of those guys when healthy.
JrZyHuStLa
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12/28/2009  10:31 AM
Hell no.

We lost on Xmas and against the Spurs because we didn't make plays down the stretch.

This has nothing to do with the clown's benching.

nyk4ever
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12/28/2009  11:05 AM
Nate's pretty overated if you ask me. Sure he has his moments where he goes off for 30 or 40 but there are plenty of games where he's brought nothing to the table both offensively and defensively. We already have one chucker in Harrington, we don't need another.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
seaegg99
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12/28/2009  11:06 AM
I think against the better teams you can clearly see a spark off the bench could have helped tremendously. During the middle of the game and usually the beginning of the last quarter pushing the ball up could have changed the tempo. Against good teams we stay cloase but dont have the take charge guy to push us over the hump. A sparkoff the bench could do the same. The Miami game was just waiting for such a spark. Wish they would have gone more to Chandler right then instead of letting Harrington put up so many shots when he was missing them all.
NYKBocker
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12/28/2009  11:06 AM
Nope. Nate needs to dispatched to another team pronto.
crzymdups
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12/28/2009  11:15 AM
one reason our defense has looked so good is that we are playing a lot of zone and we have long guys at four positions for most of the game. the only way nate could play in this setup is if he were the only guard on the floor. and he's just not good enough at getting other guys the ball to be the only guard on the floor. so then we make a huge defensive sacrifice to have him out there. and his offense is streaky and disrupts the flow of the rest of the team.

remember how nate used to look off gallo? anyone think that may be a major reason for his benching? serious question. he used to VERY blatantly ignore a wide open gallinari. now nate is sitting and gallo is thriving. if nate was holding back gallo, i don't really want him playing either.

¿ △ ?
Uptown
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12/28/2009  11:44 AM
I actually llike Nate as a spark off the bench, but to say his lack of playing time was the cause of us not winning our last 2 is ridiculous.

@CRZY....I was watching MDA interview with Breen and he mentioned the longer lineups have been the reason for the improvement defensively. I can definitely see Nate as the only guard on the floor for stretches while Duhon rests. Also, Hughes has looked awful lately aswell. He can take some of his minutes...

crzymdups
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12/28/2009  12:19 PM
Uptown wrote:I actually llike Nate as a spark off the bench, but to say his lack of playing time was the cause of us not winning our last 2 is ridiculous.

@CRZY....I was watching MDA interview with Breen and he mentioned the longer lineups have been the reason for the improvement defensively. I can definitely see Nate as the only guard on the floor for stretches while Duhon rests. Also, Hughes has looked awful lately aswell. He can take some of his minutes...

i think the problem breaks down like this:

1) he costs us defensively because he is small for his position and he gambles in passing lanes too often
2) he disrupts the offense by calling his own number too often
3) he doesn't move the ball well at all, particularly looking off gallinari who is one of our two best players (along with DLee)
4) he embarasses his teammates and potentially pumps up the other team by crowing after made shots when the team is down 10 points

i'm not saying we don't need the spark he provides, but he brings some pretty serious negatives along with that spark and he won't be here past this year, so i can understand mike not using him.

¿ △ ?
CHAOS
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12/28/2009  12:29 PM
As a coach, you should use all the bullets in your gun
.
sebstar
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12/28/2009  12:32 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/28/2009  12:33 PM
Of course not...why would the knicks, as a struggling offense, miss an explosive 17 pt. per game scorer????

Some of ya'll need to get off managment's collective balls. Nate acting up at times and his ability on the court are mutually exclusive. He's not the end all be all as a talent, but this benching has grown tiresome and ridiculous. Especially when I am subjected to watching Chris Duhon on a nightly basis.

My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
fishmike
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12/28/2009  12:57 PM
CHAOS wrote:As a coach, you should use all the bullets in your gun
.

even if your pretty sure some are gonna shoot crooked? Seems like if you only have 7 bullets your confident in those are the ones your bringing to the fight
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Rookie
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12/28/2009  1:13 PM
" Anyone else think banning Nate is starting to cost us games?"

If it costs us games at the expense of playing guys who take the game seriously and play the way the coach tells them to play, then Curry and Nate can rot for all I care. I would much rather see Hill and Douglass get minutes before Nate and Curry even if it costs us a few in the win column. Even if we lose a few to good teams, we have been in it and haven't been getting blown out. We are starting to find a way to win against teams we should be beating and we are playing better basketball without Nate and Curry.

All I can say is they should have gotten with the program a year ago. You only get so many chances. Ball movement and defense aren't exactly Nate and Curry's forte'. We are better without them, the ship has sailed and they missed the boat. Oh well, to bad so sad for them. They should stop crying and accept that they screwed up by thinking that they were bigger than the coach. They should stop trying to say the right things to the media and just STFU and practice hard and do what their coach tells them to do. When he is good and ready, they will play and no amount of crying is going to change that at this point. They should have listened from day one.

Rookie
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12/28/2009  2:05 PM
I think this quote says it all

In a roundabout explanation, D'Antoni said before flying to Detroit, "There's certain guys in this league - Toney, Marcus Landry - you can play for one minute and they're fine. They'll give you everything for one minute and be over there cheering. There are other guys who need roles and need them defined. Nate Robinson. Al (Harrington) Eddy (Curry), Will (Wilson Chandler). If you don't have that bulk of minutes, you can't just throw them out. There's a disrespect there. You have to respect what they've done. I don't have a role for those guys.''

TMS
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12/28/2009  2:06 PM
what's funny to me is MDA even swallowed his pride last year & asked Dinglebury to play during a game where they were shorthanded & Dinglebury refused... he won't even ask Nate to play even when he only has guys injured & is shorthanded on certain nights... i'm pretty sure if MDA called his number, Nate would go out & give it his all... some serious personal issues going on there.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Anyone else think banning Nate is starting to cost us games?

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