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Need more offensive fire power and more speed
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BRIGGS
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12/27/2009  8:55 PM
I guess the easiest path to attempt to score a few more points would be to improve from within--which would mean potentially lengthening the rotation and implementing Douglas Nate and Hill--I really do not understand why we havent tried it. We need more speed. Jefferies has been very bad the last 3 games. I could see us falling back a few more in the W-L column--I mean David Leewent 11/13 and scored 28 points and we shot 44% as a team!

If I was the Nets--I would pay up to get Lee to be my PF as in 5 years 65mm$--I would offer Lee 65mm 10 seconds after FA in a take it or leave it deal--the thing is he doesnt have to move or change his life---so that might be a problem. There is no way around it Lee is atleast worth 12mm a year--he wont get less.

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TMS
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12/27/2009  9:07 PM
Lee is definitely gonna command that type of contract, if not from the Nets then from another team like the Pistons, Heat, Raptors, etc... he is worth that amount of money but not if that means you're foregoing any chance to sign a guy like Lebron... if it takes losing Lee to make sure you get Lebron in NY, it's a no brainer decision to let him walk, as painful it would be to lose a guy who's grown & developed his game since his rookie year in NY & is a fan favorite.

i also agree we need more offensive fire power & more speed & should expand the rotation now... the short rotation was going to catch up to this team eventually & it looks like it already has... during nights when certain guys are off MDA can't be afraid to mix it up & go to other guys.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
crzymdups
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12/27/2009  9:09 PM
it might be time to bring nate back into the fold.
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Moonangie
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12/27/2009  9:27 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/27/2009  9:27 PM
Lee can get a backloaded long-term deal worth an average of $10mil from us using his bird rights and still sign Lebron this summer. I would imagine we are planning exactly that. Lebron with Lee, Gallo, Chandler, Hill, Douglas plus 2 more and some bench warmers will be ideal for MDA. Maybe we resign LH for MLE or less, maybe we trade JJ for a keeper and a pick. But the nucleus should include Lee. He is a great finisher and with the right help down low, his defensive lapses can be tolerated. Galo was strong defensively again tonight.

Then in 2011 we add the second max FA. It's gonna be a quick turnaround here.
TMS
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12/27/2009  9:30 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/27/2009  9:31 PM
Bird Rights don't apply when you have cap space, & we won't have the MLE either... Bird exceptions & Midlevel exceptions are only for teams that are OVER the salary cap.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
martin
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12/27/2009  9:40 PM
TMS wrote:Bird Rights don't apply when you have cap space, & we won't have the MLE either... Bird exceptions & Midlevel exceptions are only for teams that are OVER the salary cap.

Sure about the Bird Rights thing? I think it does apply but would be kinda negated (in terms of how the Knicks can use cap space) because of the hold on the cap which is like 130% or more.

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AnubisADL
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12/27/2009  9:42 PM
BRIGGS wrote:I guess the easiest path to attempt to score a few more points would be to improve from within--which would mean potentially lengthening the rotation and implementing Douglas Nate and Hill--I really do not understand why we havent tried it. We need more speed. Jefferies has been very bad the last 3 games. I could see us falling back a few more in the W-L column--I mean David Leewent 11/13 and scored 28 points and we shot 44% as a team!

If I was the Nets--I would pay up to get Lee to be my PF as in 5 years 65mm$--I would offer Lee 65mm 10 seconds after FA in a take it or leave it deal--the thing is he doesnt have to move or change his life---so that might be a problem. There is no way around it Lee is atleast worth 12mm a year--he wont get less.

I expect the Nets to make that move in an attempt to raise their fan base in the event they miss out on Lebron, Wade, Amare, and Bosh.

More minutes for Gallo at PF.

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BRIGGS
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12/27/2009  9:52 PM
martin wrote:
TMS wrote:Bird Rights don't apply when you have cap space, & we won't have the MLE either... Bird exceptions & Midlevel exceptions are only for teams that are OVER the salary cap.

Sure about the Bird Rights thing? I think it does apply but would be kinda negated (in terms of how the Knicks can use cap space) because of the hold on the cap which is like 130% or more.

We have the advantage over any other NBA team with Lee because of the 6th year. Even if NJ offered 5 years 65mm--we could offer 6 years 68mm--while the avg salary might be smaller--the top line number is bigger and there is NO guarantee David wont get hurt regress with age etc.. by end of contract. What the agent should do is get Lee the 6th year from the Knicks and have the add in a player option out after year 3. Can anyone in this world guarantee David will get a 3mm dollar contact after 5 more years in the NBA? No way! Thats where the Knicks haev the advantage.

RIP Crushalot😞
TMS
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12/27/2009  10:13 PM
martin wrote:
TMS wrote:Bird Rights don't apply when you have cap space, & we won't have the MLE either... Bird exceptions & Midlevel exceptions are only for teams that are OVER the salary cap.

Sure about the Bird Rights thing? I think it does apply but would be kinda negated (in terms of how the Knicks can use cap space) because of the hold on the cap which is like 130% or more.

right, in effect it's the same thing... u can't sign up players up to your cap & then sign your own guy using a Bird exception, cuz you have a cap hold on that player... the only way to get rid of the cap hold is to renounce that player which in effect voids his Bird Rights.


29. Can a team sign all the free agents it wants (up to the cap limit) and THEN re-sign its own free agents using the Bird exception?

Yes, but there's a restriction. A team's free agents continue to count as team salary (against the salary cap). This charge is called the "free agent amount." So there may not be enough money under the cap to sign another team's free agent, because the team's own free agents are taking up all their cap room.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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12/27/2009  10:16 PM
AnubisADL wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:I guess the easiest path to attempt to score a few more points would be to improve from within--which would mean potentially lengthening the rotation and implementing Douglas Nate and Hill--I really do not understand why we havent tried it. We need more speed. Jefferies has been very bad the last 3 games. I could see us falling back a few more in the W-L column--I mean David Leewent 11/13 and scored 28 points and we shot 44% as a team!

If I was the Nets--I would pay up to get Lee to be my PF as in 5 years 65mm$--I would offer Lee 65mm 10 seconds after FA in a take it or leave it deal--the thing is he doesnt have to move or change his life---so that might be a problem. There is no way around it Lee is atleast worth 12mm a year--he wont get less.

I expect the Nets to make that move in an attempt to raise their fan base in the event they miss out on Lebron, Wade, Amare, and Bosh.

More minutes for Gallo at PF.

i have a feeling DET will make a big play for D Lee... he'd be perfect for that team playing alongside a shotblocker like Big Ben who's had a resurgence to some of his old form this year after some off years in CLE... for anyone who thought he'd take less to stay a Knick needs to know that Lee will have his share of suitors this offseason... he won't be cheap.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
King1
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12/27/2009  11:11 PM
Wouldnt it have been easier to offer Lee 5 yr 40 million last year and he would have bitten. Now your looking at 7 years and over 60 million. Lee wont be looking to break the bank he wants to be happy and win.
EwingsGlass
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12/27/2009  11:22 PM
I would be willing to be that Lee ends up with a contract less than $65M over 5 years. Given the amount and talent level of the 2010 free agent class, I find it hard to believe that there will be enough $$$ under the entire league's collective salary cap to ensure Lee gets $12M.

This is an estimate of available cap space:
ATL-- $8M (assuming Joe Johnson leaves)
Bos --$0
Char - $0
Chi-- $18M assuming they non-tender Ty Thomas
Cle--$22M assuming Lebron leaves
Dal-- $11M assuming Dirk leaves... $22M if they don't pick up Howard's option
Den --$0
Det-$4M
GS- $2M
Hou- $16M
Ind- $0
LAC- $16M
LAL -$0
Mia- $48M assuming Wade leaves
Mem- $8M assuming they non-tender Rudy Gay
NJ $30M
NO- $0
NY $28M
OKC $15M
Orl- $0
Phi- $0
Pho -$10M assuming Amare leaves
Por $0
Sac-$14M
San- $0
Tor- $9M (assuming Bosh leaves)
UTA $0
Was -$2M

So, there are 9 teams that can offer Lee $12M or more without a sign and trade before accounting for 1st rd draft pick guaranteed contracts of at least $1M. I also didn't count cap holds and filler contracts. So actual cap space will be less for most teams.

After Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Amare, JJ, and Dirk all get max contracts, and then Boozer and Manu get high ticket contracts, I find it hard to believe that there will be many (any?) teams offering Lee $12M.

Keep in mind the state of the economy and the fact that the luxury tax is at $65M for next year. Teams like OKC will not be using that extra cap space to add much salary if they have any hope of keeping Durant. Cleveland without Lebron isn't signing Lee for $12M. Sactown maybe, but they have Hawes and Thompson. Clips have Griffin at PF, they aren't bringing in Lee. Houston has Scola and Landry. Really, that leaves the Nets and the Heat as realistic teams that might offer Lee $12M. I'd bet the Heat get 2 max FAs in Wade and Bosh and fill in the roster with the balance. That leaves the Nets (as you mentioned). But with the other available talent, I can't see them paying $12M for Lee when they have no other real competition.

You know I gonna spin wit it
EwingsGlass
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12/27/2009  11:25 PM
King1 wrote:Wouldnt it have been easier to offer Lee 5 yr 40 million last year and he would have bitten. Now your looking at 7 years and over 60 million. Lee wont be looking to break the bank he wants to be happy and win.

1) There is no such thing as a 7 year contract.
2) The plan was never to disrespect Lee, but to guaranty room for a max contract player. Signing a 5/$40M contract would jeopardize it.

You know I gonna spin wit it
King1
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12/27/2009  11:30 PM
Well if he gets 6 years at 60 million and the one year you paid him 6 million to me that looks like 7 years.
simrud
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12/28/2009  2:38 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/28/2009  2:39 AM
They are playing good defense consistently for a change. Changing things because they lost close games to two better teams, both with all start go to guys (Wade and Parker) is an over reaction.

They play the season out like they played this last two games, and they will make the playoffs.

A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
Ira
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12/28/2009  7:58 AM
We need to maintain good d. I'd add Douglas and give him the minutes that Bender has been awarded. I'd add Hill and give him some of Jeffries minutes.
orangeblobman
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Nauru
12/28/2009  8:07 AM
simrud wrote:They are playing good defense consistently for a change. Changing things because they lost close games to two better teams, both with all start go to guys (Wade and Parker) is an over reaction.

They play the season out like they played this last two games, and they will make the playoffs.

Hear, hear!!

WE AIN'T NOWHERE WITH THIS BUM CHOKER IN CARMELO. GIVE ME STARKS'S 2-21 ANY DAY OVER THIS LACKLUSTER CLUSTEREFF.
fishmike
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12/28/2009  8:16 AM
Lee will be back here next year. You know Walsh's patterns as a GM and you know that. I suspect they offer him 6/$70mm and he takes it. That puts him at $9mm next year and with the max 10.5% raises his contract looks like this:
9
9.95
10.99
12.14
13.42
14.83
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
MS
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12/28/2009  9:28 AM
So is it fair to say that Donnie ****ed the franchise as bad as any GM this offseason?

Lee would have taken 8/8.5 long term you can bet on it regardless of what his agent says. Now he is playing himself into a 12 million a year player and chances are we lose him outright to the Nets/Thunder.

We needed a point guard in the worst way and he drafted a guy that can't play on a lottery team. I have to imagine Ty Lawson pushing the ball full speed would really benefit Lee/Gallo/Chandler. Jennings big miss obviously.

We needed a post presence and Douglas isn't a point guard and can be found any where. See Affalo. Blair is looking like a very nice prospect.

I just don't see what this team is doing. I like some of the pieces I don't want to lose lee because the kid is a fringe allstar without a true number 1/2 playing on this team.
joec32033
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12/28/2009  9:39 AM
More offensive firepower and speed-Nate, Chandler, Jefferies and $3 mil for Ellis and a 2nd rounder.
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