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Knicks and 4's
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TRU
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12/11/2009  2:33 PM
I was talking to Tommy Dee at the game earlier this week and he was convinced that David Lee is gone after this season.

He says that D'antoni told him that in his system the 4 has do two things: shoot from 3-point range and guard the oposing 4. It's the center that constantly has to set high picks and flash though the paint.

The power forward aids in spreading the floor.

David Lee, although his skill set makes him a fave of mine, doesn't have the range to play his natural position in this system.

This explains why we haven't seen use the seemingly obviously combinations of darko and lee, curry and lee or jeffries and lee and the 5 and 4 respectively.

This also explains why he so protective of Gallo.

Let it be known: I believe in the Knicks this year-- deep into the playoffs, I swear to you my brothers...
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TheGame
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12/11/2009  2:36 PM
TRU wrote:I was talking to Tommy Dee at the game earlier this week and he was convinced that David Lee is gone after this season.

He says that D'antoni told him that in his system the 4 has do two things: shoot from 3-point range and guard the oposing 4. It's the center that constantly has to set high picks and flash though the paint.

The power forward aids in spreading the floor.

David Lee, although his skill set makes him a fave of mine, doesn't have the range to play his natural position in this system.

This explains why we haven't seen use the seemingly obviously combinations of darko and lee, curry and lee or jeffries and lee and the 5 and 4 respectively.

This also explains why he so protective of Gallo.

Well, Gallo would be the perfect 4 if he can rebound. He probably can guard the 4 as well as Lee, if not better, and he certainly can hit the 3 ball.

Trust the Process
Rookie
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12/11/2009  2:40 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/11/2009  2:43 PM
So Rooster is our starting 4 next season Bosh/Stoudemire are not options unless they play the 5 and this kid Tyrus Thomas that MDA likes could be our future 6'-10" 225 lb shotblocking 5? Where does this leave Jordan Hill? Is Hill going to ride the bench until he can chuck 3's from downtown?
martin
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12/11/2009  2:40 PM
TheGame wrote:Well, Gallo would be the perfect 4 if he can rebound. He probably can guard the 4 as well as Lee, if not better, and he certainly can hit the 3 ball.

not sure I agree that Gallo could guard PFs as well as Lee does this year, cause he just doesn't have the strength. But in the long term, I think Gallo is a better fit for the true MDA offense.

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TMS
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12/11/2009  2:40 PM
Gallo's gonna have to bulk up in the offseason & increase his strength if MDA expects to use him as our starting 4 going forward, unless we can somehow bring in a bruising type C which i don't see happening in MDA's system... i think Jordan Hill taking over David Lee's role at the 5, Gallo at the 3 spot & signing Lebron or Bosh to play the 4 is probably MDA's ideal scenario right now.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
LivingLegend
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12/11/2009  2:43 PM
All true to some degree but....

Lee plays the center (5) position in this offense very well. His timing on cuts off the pick and roll, his ability to pass the ball when needed and his ability to finish with both hands all aid him at that position. In addition Lee is now shooting the 15-18 foot shot much better and will only improve.

Defensively - is another story and Lee would probably be greatly improved if he played alongside a bigger - shot blocking type player.

I'd argue that a guy like Tyrus Thomas at the 4 -- playing defense and blocking shots would make Lee look terrific at the 5.
In addition - if we add someone like a Lebron -- the need for a traditional center is lessoned because that person would clog the lane.

I'm not sold on Bosh and his ability to run the 5 better than Lee - sames goes for Amare having watched him this season. A guy like Bogut would seem to be ideal at the 5 in this offense but I don't think many others give you the scoring and rebounding of Lee -- despite his poor defense.

TRU
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12/11/2009  2:44 PM
man, mike should just adjust.

I don't wanna see David go, man. He's solid. He's been as solid as anything else around here over the last 5 years, and he deserves to be here when we we're in the finals.

Let it be known: I believe in the Knicks this year-- deep into the playoffs, I swear to you my brothers...
Rookie
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12/11/2009  2:46 PM
TRU wrote:man, mike should just adjust.

I don't wanna see David go, man. He's solid. He's been as solid as anything else around here over the last 5 years, and he deserves to be here when we we're in the finals.

If his agent is still talking 12M per....it's walk time

djsunyc
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12/11/2009  2:46 PM
now do you see why i said mda would trade anyone/everyone on this roster for bargs?
TMS
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12/11/2009  2:52 PM
Rookie wrote:
TRU wrote:man, mike should just adjust.

I don't wanna see David go, man. He's solid. He's been as solid as anything else around here over the last 5 years, and he deserves to be here when we we're in the finals.

If his agent is still talking 12M per....it's walk time

if his agent is talking anything over $8M per, it's show him the door time... & yeah, i realize there are overplayed players making that coin that are a lot worse than Lee, but that don't mean jack in our current situation... we need to be smart about how we allocate our cap dollars this offseason cuz this is a unique opportunity that we haven't had & probably won't have again for a very long time.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Moonangie
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12/11/2009  5:01 PM
Don't we retain Lee's Bird Rights? If so, we can offer him more than $8mil without messing up the cap room. I would say something along the lines of 5 years @ just under $50mil. Just wish he could get Oak as a private tutor to fix his D. If Lee played defense, he would be a great 5 for our team.
JrZyHuStLa
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12/11/2009  5:55 PM
TMS wrote:
Rookie wrote:
TRU wrote:man, mike should just adjust.

I don't wanna see David go, man. He's solid. He's been as solid as anything else around here over the last 5 years, and he deserves to be here when we we're in the finals.

If his agent is still talking 12M per....it's walk time

if his agent is talking anything over $8M per, it's show him the door time... & yeah, i realize there are overplayed players making that coin that are a lot worse than Lee, but that don't mean jack in our current situation... we need to be smart about how we allocate our cap dollars this offseason cuz this is a unique opportunity that we haven't had & probably won't have again for a very long time.

This.

loweyecue
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12/11/2009  6:59 PM
JrZyHuStLa wrote:
TMS wrote:
Rookie wrote:
TRU wrote:man, mike should just adjust.

I don't wanna see David go, man. He's solid. He's been as solid as anything else around here over the last 5 years, and he deserves to be here when we we're in the finals.

If his agent is still talking 12M per....it's walk time

if his agent is talking anything over $8M per, it's show him the door time... & yeah, i realize there are overplayed players making that coin that are a lot worse than Lee, but that don't mean jack in our current situation... we need to be smart about how we allocate our cap dollars this offseason cuz this is a unique opportunity that we haven't had & probably won't have again for a very long time.

This.

Avi is the least of our concerns in the future. IF he accepts something in the 6.5-8 range keep him, else bye bye. Not many people appreciate how hard it is to be in this situation to even think about snagging two max FAs.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
McK1
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12/11/2009  7:08 PM
so a 25 yr old stud like Lee is a goner because he can't hit 3's...FUCK ...I hope when the time comes Walsh chooses the blue pill
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
NYKBocker
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12/11/2009  7:34 PM
McK1 wrote:so a 25 yr old stud like Lee is a goner because he can't hit 3's...FUCK ...I hope when the time comes Walsh chooses the blue pill

Maybe he should talk to Tiger.

TMS
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12/11/2009  8:21 PM
Moonangie wrote:Don't we retain Lee's Bird Rights? If so, we can offer him more than $8mil without messing up the cap room. I would say something along the lines of 5 years @ just under $50mil. Just wish he could get Oak as a private tutor to fix his D. If Lee played defense, he would be a great 5 for our team.

that's not how Bird Rights work... whatever contract we sign D Lee to will still count against our overall cap... in a year when your team has enough cap room then salary exceptions are void... they only advantage the Knicks will have in re-signing D Lee is the ability to offer him more than any other team can under the CBA, but only if they're willing to use up their cap space to do it.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TRU
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12/12/2009  7:31 AM
If this is true than they might trade Lee before the deadline.

David Lee is balling right now. I know someone would take one of those big ass contracts (Lee or Jeffries) if you package Lee with them.

Still don't want to see him go, though.

Let it be known: I believe in the Knicks this year-- deep into the playoffs, I swear to you my brothers...
Papabear
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12/12/2009  9:32 AM
TRU wrote:If this is true than they might trade Lee before the deadline.

David Lee is balling right now. I know someone would take one of those big ass contracts (Lee or Jeffries) if you package Lee with them.

Still don't want to see him go, though.

Papabear Says
Why do you keep talking trade? Who do we get back?? And does that mean investing another 3 years in rebuilding and when the new guys contract comes for renewal do we trade them and start all over. I have no faith in getting Lebron or any other free agent. Let's see what this team can do.

Papabear
TRU
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12/13/2009  12:25 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/13/2009  12:27 AM
Papabear wrote:
TRU wrote:If this is true than they might trade Lee before the deadline.

David Lee is balling right now. I know someone would take one of those big ass contracts (Lee or Jeffries) if you package Lee with them.

Still don't want to see him go, though.

Papabear Says
Why do you keep talking trade? Who do we get back?? And does that mean investing another 3 years in rebuilding and when the new guys contract comes for renewal do we trade them and start all over. I have no faith in getting Lebron or any other free agent. Let's see what this team can do.

I'm with you. I'd much rather see this team win a championship then one with lebron, as far-fetched as that is.

But Lee has value, and if maximizing cap space is the plan, then (like crax and zach) it makes sense to take advantage of that value through a trade.

The idea is that if we can create space for Lebron and Bosh (or something similar), three years to make it work will not be necessary-- like Boston. I'm not so sure.

Let it be known: I believe in the Knicks this year-- deep into the playoffs, I swear to you my brothers...
Paladin55
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12/13/2009  12:50 AM
martin wrote:
TheGame wrote:Well, Gallo would be the perfect 4 if he can rebound. He probably can guard the 4 as well as Lee, if not better, and he certainly can hit the 3 ball.

not sure I agree that Gallo could guard PFs as well as Lee does this year, cause he just doesn't have the strength. But in the long term, I think Gallo is a better fit for the true MDA offense.

No doubt in my mind that Gallinari is our future PF, unless he is, for some strange reason, unable to become physically stronger. I would like to see MDA play him at the 4 every now and then but unless he is guarding a 4 on a switch, I don't think he has played D against a 4 on a regular basis in a game this year.

We already see signs that he can become an efficient rebounder, and his shot blocking ability has been a major surprise. He expends a lot of energy running after small forwards. At PF, he will be considered to be quick.

The next off season will be a big one for Gallo in terms of weight training and tell us a lot about where the Knicks want him to play in the future.

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
Knicks and 4's

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