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biggest disappointment this year IMO is Lee
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fishmike
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11/17/2009  10:08 AM
was lamenting w/ VDesai and its obvious we have to look to move him. He's checked out. I didnt expect him to come in and play defense like Rasheed Wallace but its painfully obvious his plan is to collect his $7mm, put up good numbers and hit the FA market next offseason.
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NYKBocker
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11/17/2009  10:11 AM
No D Lee is the biggest disappointment because we thought he has a much higher ceiling. Dudu is just disgusting.
orangeblobman
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Nauru
11/17/2009  10:12 AM
Eh. Not really. Biggest individual disapointment is Harrington. He talked a big game this season, about wanting to share the rock, blah blah. And we're still stuck with the same head-down chucker.

Lee, he's not shocking me with his lack of defense, man, and he's still putting up his points and rebounds.

Duhon is a close second in disappointment, but he always sucked so it's not a shock.

WE AIN'T NOWHERE WITH THIS BUM CHOKER IN CARMELO. GIVE ME STARKS'S 2-21 ANY DAY OVER THIS LACKLUSTER CLUSTEREFF.
djsunyc
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11/17/2009  10:13 AM
how could it not be d'antoni?
fishmike
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11/17/2009  10:25 AM
djsunyc wrote:how could it not be d'antoni?

I just read about how he shoulders the blame for this start.

DAntoni has done nothing to inspire any defense. But after 10 years I am sick of blaming coaches. I can name about 50 NBA player in this league who are going to play their asses off every night because if they are on the floor playing a game of basketball they want to WIN that game. From Marion to Gilbert Arenas. From Kobe to Deron Williams. From Jameer Nelson to Rip Hamilton. I could go on and on about it. I am talking about guys who dont care what kind of coach they have. They are there to play and there to win.

I only see two guys on this team that look bothered by the score at the end of the game, Douglas and Gallo. The other rotation guys like Lee, Duhon, Hughes, Harrington, JJ, Chandler just seem to shrug their shoulder, mutter oh well and hit the showers.

Who is going to get in Lee's face and tell him they are sick of watching him get pushed around? Who is going to get in Al's face and tell him they are sick of watching him force up turnaround jumpers in traffic while Gallo is open?

The one good thing about next offseason is regardless of who signs or doesnt sign here I know most of these losers will be looking for a new job.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
NYKBocker
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11/17/2009  10:26 AM
djsunyc wrote:how could it not be d'antoni?

Because this is only his 2nd year. You need to give a coach and his system at least 3 years. No D Lee has been showing us his defensive abilities for a long time and it has not improved.

djsunyc
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11/17/2009  10:27 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/17/2009  10:29 AM
fishmike wrote:
djsunyc wrote:how could it not be d'antoni?

I just read about how he shoulders the blame for this start.

DAntoni has done nothing to inspire any defense. But after 10 years I am sick of blaming coaches. I can name about 50 NBA player in this league who are going to play their asses off every night because if they are on the floor playing a game of basketball they want to WIN that game. From Marion to Gilbert Arenas. From Kobe to Deron Williams. From Jameer Nelson to Rip Hamilton. I could go on and on about it. I am talking about guys who dont care what kind of coach they have. They are there to play and there to win.

I only see two guys on this team that look bothered by the score at the end of the game, Douglas and Gallo. The other rotation guys like Lee, Duhon, Hughes, Harrington, JJ, Chandler just seem to shrug their shoulder, mutter oh well and hit the showers.

Who is going to get in Lee's face and tell him they are sick of watching him get pushed around? Who is going to get in Al's face and tell him they are sick of watching him force up turnaround jumpers in traffic while Gallo is open?

The one good thing about next offseason is regardless of who signs or doesnt sign here I know most of these losers will be looking for a new job.

d'antoni has the backing from his gm and owner. no other coach for the knicks had that since van gundy in 98. this is not like any other situation in the past 10+ years. dude was able to cast marbury to the curb. that's a big juice card. d'antoni is king and he's dropping the ball. team checked out already...and these players are in contract seasons - how does a player not get motivated during a contract year?

djsunyc
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11/17/2009  10:30 AM
lee is playing out of position with darko stapled to the bench. alot of players are gonna look worse than they are when playing out of position. lee's never played great defense so that's not a shocker. but d'antoni wants him taking jumpers so he's now a little further away on offense too.
BasketballJones
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11/17/2009  10:30 AM
The biggest disappointment this year is Herb Williams. What's wrong with that dude?
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martin
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11/17/2009  10:32 AM
BasketballJones wrote:The biggest disappointment this year is Herb Williams. What's wrong with that dude?

he misses marbury on the bench next to him.

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franco12
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11/17/2009  10:37 AM
fishmike wrote:was lamenting w/ VDesai and its obvious we have to look to move him. He's checked out. I didnt expect him to come in and play defense like Rasheed Wallace but its painfully obvious his plan is to collect his $7mm, put up good numbers and hit the FA market next offseason.

If this is Lee's attitude, doesn't it fall to coach to correct, to inspire?

If this is Lee's response to the knicks generous offer, hasn't walsh misread Lee's character? And shouldn't he he held accountable for not trading him last year?

Crap, we should have been able to get two late/mid first rounders for Lee from a play off bound team? San Antonio?

s3231
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11/17/2009  10:41 AM
fishmike wrote:
djsunyc wrote:how could it not be d'antoni?

I just read about how he shoulders the blame for this start.

DAntoni has done nothing to inspire any defense. But after 10 years I am sick of blaming coaches. I can name about 50 NBA player in this league who are going to play their asses off every night because if they are on the floor playing a game of basketball they want to WIN that game. From Marion to Gilbert Arenas. From Kobe to Deron Williams. From Jameer Nelson to Rip Hamilton. I could go on and on about it. I am talking about guys who dont care what kind of coach they have. They are there to play and there to win.

I only see two guys on this team that look bothered by the score at the end of the game, Douglas and Gallo. The other rotation guys like Lee, Duhon, Hughes, Harrington, JJ, Chandler just seem to shrug their shoulder, mutter oh well and hit the showers.

Who is going to get in Lee's face and tell him they are sick of watching him get pushed around? Who is going to get in Al's face and tell him they are sick of watching him force up turnaround jumpers in traffic while Gallo is open?

The one good thing about next offseason is regardless of who signs or doesnt sign here I know most of these losers will be looking for a new job.

I don't know if I would say Lee doesn't care.

I was at the Warriors game and honestly, Lee looked like the only one who was the most pissed off at the end of the game. And it didn't look like it was because of his stats.

I do agree that he has been disappointing at the defensive end. He seems like he is trying to avoid foul trouble because that would put his ass on the bench. Honestly though, it is difficult to blame him too much. He is being asked to guard bigger guys and if he tries to contest every single shot, he will be in foul trouble very early in the game. I think David's reasoning is that he is our best offensive big and if he collects fouls, he won't be able to help us out on the floor (didn't he even say something along these lines last year?). Don't get me wrong, he definitely realizes that he has to be on the floor if he wants that big contract. However, I don't think that is the sole motivation here.

If Lee was playing this kind of defense on PFs, I think we could put a ton of blame on him. But because he is being asked to play out of position, I don't think blaming Lee entirely is correct. I definitely wish he gave more of an effort defensively, but I don't think he is the main reason we are losing right now.

I think we are losing because our offense is even worse than last year, while our defense is just as bad. Our offense has been terrible and I think the two main guys to blame for that are Chandler and Duhon. Both are not shooting the ball well and Chandler is taking a ton of awful shots in the process.

"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
BasketballJones
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11/17/2009  10:44 AM
franco12 wrote:
fishmike wrote:was lamenting w/ VDesai and its obvious we have to look to move him. He's checked out. I didnt expect him to come in and play defense like Rasheed Wallace but its painfully obvious his plan is to collect his $7mm, put up good numbers and hit the FA market next offseason.

If this is Lee's attitude, doesn't it fall to coach to correct, to inspire?

If this is Lee's response to the knicks generous offer, hasn't walsh misread Lee's character? And shouldn't he he held accountable for not trading him last year?

Crap, we should have been able to get two late/mid first rounders for Lee from a play off bound team? San Antonio?

Yeah, I agree. D'Antoni needs to coax some more effort out of Lee.

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martin
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11/17/2009  10:49 AM
in the first few games of the year I thought Lee was doing REALLY well. He seems to have faded but I don't know if it's his play or those around him (duhon, harrington, chandler).
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MS
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11/17/2009  10:54 AM
I think sooner or later you just give up. He has been playing hard here for years and guys just don't care. We need to do a major overhaul. We need to put a package together of Lee/Chandler/Jefferies for some prospects or something.
orangeblobman
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Nauru
11/17/2009  10:55 AM
Hey, everyone is going to look like **** when there is no chemistry. The motivation fizzes away and players start playing as individuals.

There is no team here. And, I guess, some of that has to do with MDA. But a lot has to do with the VERY uncomfortable position that these guys are placed in.

But I don't see an alternative to this situation considering our future plans. This season, the way it's playing out, is almost necessary for a winning team. The thing is that our 1st ovverall pick next draft was traded away by that TREACHEROUS ISIAH THOMAS AND HIS SELFISH REIGN, WHERE HE JUST LITERALY THREW AWAY OUR ASSETS FOR PEANUTS IN ORDER TO BENEFIT HIMSELF AND HIS CRONIES.

WE AIN'T NOWHERE WITH THIS BUM CHOKER IN CARMELO. GIVE ME STARKS'S 2-21 ANY DAY OVER THIS LACKLUSTER CLUSTEREFF.
JohnWallace44
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11/17/2009  11:05 AM
Duhon has been the biggest disappointment to me. I could never imagine him playing this bad to the point where I'm not sure if he should play for the rest of the year.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
fishmike
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11/17/2009  11:25 AM
I think playing Lee out of position helps him, not hurts him. NBA centers are far easier to guard then NBA powerforwards. Just go down the list. Most of them are role players anyway. The scoring comes from the 4 position. If Lee had to guard 4s most nights he would be up the creek
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orangeblobman
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Nauru
11/17/2009  11:28 AM
fishmike wrote:I think playing Lee out of position helps him, not hurts him. NBA centers are far easier to guard then NBA powerforwards. Just go down the list. Most of them are role players anyway. The scoring comes from the 4 position. If Lee had to guard 4s most nights he would be up the creek

Bro, skills aside, you try to guard someone 40 lbs heavier and 3 inches taller? I know from rec-league (B league), this is no easy task.

WE AIN'T NOWHERE WITH THIS BUM CHOKER IN CARMELO. GIVE ME STARKS'S 2-21 ANY DAY OVER THIS LACKLUSTER CLUSTEREFF.
Moonangie
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11/17/2009  11:35 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/17/2009  11:37 AM
There is a happy medium between Lee not getting too many fouls and not doing ANYTHING to protect the paint. He has to at least put a couple of guys on their arse to send a message. Just once or twice a game, to make those pesky guards think twice about pwning the paint. It's not all David's fault, of course not. But he literally seems to turn away from playing defense at all. That's just not acceptable. I would MUCH rather he foul out playing tenaciously than let every player who wants points to come on down and score.

I like his hustle, I like how he cleans up around the rim on offense, I like how he grabs boards. He does those things really well. But I will only consider resigning him (or not trading him) if he gets some flesh on his defensive skeleton. That means extending his hustle into team defense switches and hard fouls around the rim. I want to see some attitude from him on D, not a shrug and jog to the other end of the court.

As to disappointments, Duhon is by far the biggest disappointment as he is basically doing nothing for this team. He should be benched, or be the third option after TD (starting) and N8 off the bench.

Next year, I will be glad to see Duhon, Hughes, N8, Lee and Al gone to other teams. But that's subject to change if they start playing smart basketball and solid defense.

biggest disappointment this year IMO is Lee

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