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Jordan Hill compared to the other bigmen taken in the top 25
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TMS
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11/12/2009  3:05 PM
#1 pick Blake Griffin - on IR 0 games played
#3 pick Hasheem Thabeet - 7 games played / 6 mpg / 0.6 pts / 1.6 reb / 0.9 blk
#8 pick Jordan Hill - 4 games played / 5.3 mpg / 3.8 pts / 1.5 reb / 0.8 stls
#13 pick Tyler Hansbrough - 2 games played / 15 mpg / 12 pts / 6.5 reb / 31% FG
#14 pick Earl Clark - 7 games played / 10.4 mpg / 2.4 pts / 2 reb / 32% FG
#15 pick Austin Daye - 6 games played / 12.7 mpg / 4.5 pts / 2.2 reb / 0.7 blk
#22 pick Victor Claver - 0 games played
#23 pick Omri Casspi - 7 games played / 22.7 mpg / 9.4 pts / 3.4 reb / 0.9 stls
#24 pick BJ Mullens - on IR 0 games played

apparently all 9 of these teams completely whiffed on this draft using the standards of measurement you guys are going on... funny but i thought u guys were riding on Austin Daye's jock like there was no tomorrow during Summer League, & plenty of u were on Hasheem Thabeet's jock before the draft as well... BJ Mullens was referred to as a top 5 talent in this past draft by some of you but an obvious project that would take 4-5 years to develop... i have never once heard anyone refer to Jordan Hill as a finished product coming into the draft, yet people are upset that he's still a project... funny, but i don't hear anyone calling any of those other kids a bad draft pick at this point, but everyone seems to be down on Jordan Hill, who's put up better stats compared to minutes played by most of the bigmen prospects taken in the top 25 this year.

& now i'm hearing people complaining that we didn't take Jeff Teague, as if he's done anything so far this year to distinguish himself either... is this the same Jeff Teague that's averaging 3.9 pts & 2.4 asts in 11.7 mpg & shooting 34% this year? u guys seriously need something to complain about if you're gonna use that guy to point out how Donnie Walsh whiffed on this draft at this stage in the NBA season... & Ty Lawson??? is he doing anything that Toney Douglas isn't at this point in the season? 3 assists in 22 mpg is not all that impressive for a PG guys, i'm sorry.

u wanna talk about Brandon Jennings, fine... u got a case there... the kid is playing great so far this year & Donnie admitted they had limited info on him before the draft... if u preferred we didn't take a bigman & took a player like Derozan, that's fine too... but u can't say we whiffed on taking Hill yet cuz you're just talking out of ur ass if u do... u don't know yet how good this kid will be, none of us do... NONE, i repeat NONE of these prospects have shown what exactly they can do in the NBA... everyone knows bigmen take longer to develop than guards typically do in the NBA... anyone who realizes this should show a little more patience until these kids are given a fair chance to show what they got... the way some Knick fans are always so ready to rush to judgement on every rookie they pick in the draft while they give other teams' prospects years before applying any labels is ridiculous to say the least... stop the madness & let these kids play before we call them out on how good or bad they really are.

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eViL
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11/12/2009  3:20 PM
uh oh. he brought evidence. haha... good ****.
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tkf
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11/12/2009  3:23 PM
TMS wrote:#1 pick Blake Griffin - on IR 0 games played
#3 pick Hasheem Thabeet - 7 games played / 6 mpg / 0.6 pts / 1.6 reb / 0.9 blk
#8 pick Jordan Hill - 4 games played / 5.3 mpg / 3.8 pts / 1.5 reb / 0.8 stls
#13 pick Tyler Hansbrough - 2 games played / 15 mpg / 12 pts / 6.5 reb / 31% FG
#14 pick Earl Clark - 7 games played / 10.4 mpg / 2.4 pts / 2 reb / 32% FG
#15 pick Austin Daye - 6 games played / 12.7 mpg / 4.5 pts / 2.2 reb / 0.7 blk
#22 pick Victor Claver - 0 games played
#23 pick Omri Casspi - 7 games played / 22.7 mpg / 9.4 pts / 3.4 reb / 0.9 stls
#24 pick BJ Mullens - on IR 0 games played

apparently all 9 of these teams completely whiffed on this draft using the standards of measurement you guys are going on... funny but i thought u guys were riding on Austin Daye's jock like there was no tomorrow during Summer League, & plenty of u were on Hasheem Thabeet's jock before the draft as well... BJ Mullens was referred to as a top 5 talent in this past draft by some of you but an obvious project that would take 4-5 years to develop... i have never once heard anyone refer to Jordan Hill as a finished product coming into the draft, yet people are upset that he's still a project... funny, but i don't hear anyone calling any of those other kids a bad draft pick at this point, but everyone seems to be down on Jordan Hill, who's put up better stats compared to minutes played by most of the bigmen prospects taken in the top 25 this year.

& now i'm hearing people complaining that we didn't take Jeff Teague, as if he's done anything so far this year to distinguish himself either... is this the same Jeff Teague that's averaging 3.9 pts & 2.4 asts in 11.7 mpg & shooting 34% this year? u guys seriously need something to complain about if you're gonna use that guy to point out how Donnie Walsh whiffed on this draft at this stage in the NBA season... & Ty Lawson??? is he doing anything that Toney Douglas isn't at this point in the season? 3 assists in 22 mpg is not all that impressive for a PG guys, i'm sorry.

u wanna talk about Brandon Jennings, fine... u got a case there... the kid is playing great so far this year & Donnie admitted they had limited info on him before the draft... if u preferred we didn't take a bigman & took a player like Derozan, that's fine too... but u can't say we whiffed on taking Hill yet cuz you're just talking out of ur ass if u do... u don't know yet how good this kid will be, none of us do... NONE, i repeat NONE of these prospects have shown what exactly they can do in the NBA... everyone knows bigmen take longer to develop than guards typically do in the NBA... anyone who realizes this should show a little more patience until these kids are given a fair chance to show what they got... the way some Knick fans are always so ready to rush to judgement on every rookie they pick in the draft while they give other teams' prospects years before applying any labels is ridiculous to say the least... stop the madness & let these kids play before we call them out on how good or bad they really are.

GReat post man. Great post..... take jordan hill out of a knicks uniform and give us BJ mullens and it would be even worse, guys would have been whining about not taking Hill..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
nixluva
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11/12/2009  4:43 PM
WELL THIS IS WHY IT'S ALWAYS GREENER IN SOMEONE ELSES YARD! That's cuz you never get close enough to see all the weeds. We did good in this draft IMO. They did their research and looked for players that had the skills and upside they wanted. The rest is all up to the kids.
McK1
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11/12/2009  4:49 PM
jordan hill's skill level is far behind everyone on that list except thabeet.
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TMS
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11/12/2009  5:04 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/12/2009  5:06 PM
dude, Mullens & Claver haven't even seen NBA action yet & everyone knows Mullens is as raw as they come.

& if Clark & Daye are so much more skilled than Hill why don't their stats point this out?

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McK1
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11/12/2009  5:13 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/12/2009  5:16 PM
TMS wrote:dude, Mullens & Claver haven't even seen NBA action yet & everyone knows Mullens is as raw as they come.

& if Clark & Daye are so much more skilled than Hill why don't their stats point this out?

limited opportunity

we saw all 3 of those guys on the colegiate level a year ago, all 3 played for prominent teams. Are you seriously going to argue hill can do the same things with the ball in his hands daye and clark can?

the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
oohah
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11/12/2009  5:22 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/12/2009  5:23 PM
Good points McK1. Also, when comparing Hill and Thabeet, Thabeet is playing behind guys who are playing very well. Hill should be getting some minutes on this team.

To my understanding, the skill levels of Hill and Thabeet is not an apt comparison. When Thabeet first saw a basketball about 6 years ago, he probably tried to kick it. On the other hand, my understanding is that Hill started playing ORGANIZED basketball about 5-6 years ago.

Thabeet is a project and everyone knows it. But his physical talent is off the charts so the risk is understandable.

On the other hand I don't see Hill as being a special physical talent at the NBA level. Maybe once he gets some burn he'll surprise me, but at the moment I see him as a skinny PF of average size and athleticism that is yet to be determined.

oohah

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TMS
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11/12/2009  5:22 PM
no, i'll agree that Daye & Clark are probably more polished players at this stage, but that doesn't mean they're gonna be better players... are u seriously gonna argue that BJ Mullens & Victor Claver are more skilled than Jordan Hill when you haven't seen anything out of either prospect in NBA action or otherwise?
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McK1
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11/12/2009  5:28 PM
TMS wrote:no, i'll agree that Daye & Clark are probably more polished players at this stage, but that doesn't mean they're gonna be better players... are u seriously gonna argue that BJ Mullens & Victor Claver are more skilled than Jordan Hill when you haven't seen anything out of either prospect in NBA action or otherwise?

never seen claver play but he is a euro big which means he probably has a ton of perimeter skill already. mullens has more skill than hill.

why are we talking about guys picked in the teens and 20's tho? hill went 8. ny needed a pg first, sg second. project big built like jamal crawford, distaaaaaaaaaaaaant 3rd.

the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
playa2
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11/12/2009  5:28 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/12/2009  5:30 PM
TMS wrote:#1 pick Blake Griffin - on IR 0 games played
#3 pick Hasheem Thabeet - 7 games played / 6 mpg / 0.6 pts / 1.6 reb / 0.9 blk
#8 pick Jordan Hill - 4 games played / 5.3 mpg / 3.8 pts / 1.5 reb / 0.8 stls
#13 pick Tyler Hansbrough - 2 games played / 15 mpg / 12 pts / 6.5 reb / 31% FG
#14 pick Earl Clark - 7 games played / 10.4 mpg / 2.4 pts / 2 reb / 32% FG
#15 pick Austin Daye - 6 games played / 12.7 mpg / 4.5 pts / 2.2 reb / 0.7 blk
#22 pick Victor Claver - 0 games played
#23 pick Omri Casspi - 7 games played / 22.7 mpg / 9.4 pts / 3.4 reb / 0.9 stls
#24 pick BJ Mullens - on IR 0 games played

apparently all 9 of these teams completely whiffed on this draft using the standards of measurement you guys are going on... funny but i thought u guys were riding on Austin Daye's jock like there was no tomorrow during Summer League, & plenty of u were on Hasheem Thabeet's jock before the draft as well... BJ Mullens was referred to as a top 5 talent in this past draft by some of you but an obvious project that would take 4-5 years to develop... i have never once heard anyone refer to Jordan Hill as a finished product coming into the draft, yet people are upset that he's still a project... funny, but i don't hear anyone calling any of those other kids a bad draft pick at this point, but everyone seems to be down on Jordan Hill, who's put up better stats compared to minutes played by most of the bigmen prospects taken in the top 25 this year.

& now i'm hearing people complaining that we didn't take Jeff Teague, as if he's done anything so far this year to distinguish himself either... is this the same Jeff Teague that's averaging 3.9 pts & 2.4 asts in 11.7 mpg & shooting 34% this year? u guys seriously need something to complain about if you're gonna use that guy to point out how Donnie Walsh whiffed on this draft at this stage in the NBA season... & Ty Lawson??? is he doing anything that Toney Douglas isn't at this point in the season? 3 assists in 22 mpg is not all that impressive for a PG guys, i'm sorry.

u wanna talk about Brandon Jennings, fine... u got a case there... the kid is playing great so far this year & Donnie admitted they had limited info on him before the draft... if u preferred we didn't take a bigman & took a player like Derozan, that's fine too... but u can't say we whiffed on taking Hill yet cuz you're just talking out of ur ass if u do... u don't know yet how good this kid will be, none of us do... NONE, i repeat NONE of these prospects have shown what exactly they can do in the NBA... everyone knows bigmen take longer to develop than guards typically do in the NBA... anyone who realizes this should show a little more patience until these kids are given a fair chance to show what they got... the way some Knick fans are always so ready to rush to judgement on every rookie they pick in the draft while they give other teams' prospects years before applying any labels is ridiculous to say the least... stop the madness & let these kids play before we call them out on how good or bad they really are.

Before you get madd props from the walshhtoni gang. Those of us who watch other teams draft well all the time aren't buying.

What are the results long term history of the knicks picks in the top 10 in the nba draft the last 10 yrs.
This is why we question these players who have to wait to become a player.

We nned guys who make impacts the 1st yr in the league, somebody to build around.

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
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11/12/2009  5:30 PM
I agree with everything TMS points out but the issue w/ those who are complaining about JHILL is more of who we should have drafted...i.e. PG.
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TMS
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11/12/2009  5:31 PM
i brought up Mullens cuz people were saying he had top 5 talent in this draft but would be a project that would take years to develop... so if he's afforded that kinda patience, why can't we wait even 1 full season before saying we effed up the Jordan Hill pick?

i brought up all the other guys just to show that none of the bigmen taken in the top 25 have really distinguished themselves yet in the NBA... doesn't mean any of them were whiffs either... bigmen take a while to develop like i've said numerous times... u don't judge these guys based off a 7 game sample!

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TMS
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11/12/2009  5:40 PM
playa2 wrote:Before you get madd props from the walshhtoni gang. Those of us who watch other teams draft well all the time aren't buying.

What are the results long term history of the knicks picks in the top 10 in the nba draft the last 10 yrs.
This is why we question these players who have to wait to become a player.

We nned guys who make impacts the 1st yr in the league, somebody to build around.

i don't care if u buy what i'm saying or not, tell me what i said that's wrong here... everyone needs players that make impacts their 1st year, but how many rookies actually do it? everyone would like someone to build around, but tell me who was taken after Jordan Hill in the draft that u really can call a cornerstone franchise level talent at this point? Branden Jennings has not reached that level yet i don't care what u wanna try & sell me on... sure it would have been nice to have a talented PG like him but that doesn't mean Jordan Hill won't blossom into a nice player in his own right either.

Walsh's plan is to sign a FA who he can build around this summer... everyone knows this... if he fails at that plan then i'll be here right alongside u in calling him out on it... until then, what else did u expect from this season? u think if we had Branden Jennings here we'd be competing for a playoff spot right about now? get real, this team has a whole lot of other issues they need to address other than just the PG position my friend... taking Jordan Hill was also an insurance policy in case David Lee wasn't re-signed this past offseason... if Lee left & we had Fishlips starting at C this year, i don't care if we had Chris Paul starting at PG we'd still suck ass.

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McK1
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11/12/2009  5:40 PM
TMS wrote:i brought up Mullens cuz people were saying he had top 5 talent in this draft but would be a project that would take years to develop... so if he's afforded that kinda patience, why can't we wait even 1 full season before saying we effed up the Jordan Hill pick?

i brought up all the other guys just to show that none of the bigmen taken in the top 25 have really distinguished themselves yet in the NBA... doesn't mean any of them were whiffs either... bigmen take a while to develop like i've said numerous times... u don't judge these guys based off a 7 game sample!


i didnt like the fact that we even worked hill out (by himself, great way to judge donnie..ugh) let alone picked him and he has done nothing from the sl's to now to disuade me.

the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
TMS
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11/12/2009  5:52 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/12/2009  5:53 PM
basically this all boils down to the fact that u never liked Jordan Hill as a prospect & until he proves to you that you were wrong about him you refuse to give him the benefit of the doubt... if we'd taken Mullens, Clark or Daye instead of Hill would u feel the same?
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McK1
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11/12/2009  6:01 PM
TMS wrote:basically this all boils down to the fact that u never liked Jordan Hill as a prospect & until he proves to you that you were wrong about him you refuse to give him the benefit of the doubt... if we'd taken Mullens, Clark or Daye instead of Hill would u feel the same?

yep.

didn't like clark (or twill) for that matter.

daye and mullens being 20 with the size and skill set they possess = something to look forward to.

the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
nixluva
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11/12/2009  6:24 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/12/2009  6:27 PM
oohah wrote:On the other hand I don't see Hill as being a special physical talent at the NBA level. Maybe once he gets some burn he'll surprise me, but at the moment I see him as a skinny PF of average size and athleticism that is yet to be determined.

oohah

Dude his stats say he is a special Physical Talent. Do you realize that his no step max vert reach is 11'7"? The only one in the draft that got his hands up higher was Thabeet, by a mere half inch!!! That means that he has superior jumping ability and length that will allow him to get the ball more when standing under the basket. He doesn't need to run in order to go up and get the ball.

His sprint time was 3.30 for comparison Blake Griffin ran a 3.28. The only area where he needed to improve was in strength and agility. Still he's got the goods in terms of being at the top of his draft class athletically. What happens with a guy like him is that he's often held back by the game being a bit too fast for him and indecision. When he's confident and knows what to do, you'll see more of his true athletic ability shine thru.

Oh and Griffins Max Vert was 35.5" and Hill's was 35.0.
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11/12/2009  6:28 PM
So nine GM's didn't get the memo that this was a PG draft.

Daye/Mullens are big time projects and Daye lit us up in the Summer League too.

I'm not sure what this proves. There are other dumb GM's out there?

DailyNewsLive was talking about the difference in player evaluation between Donnie and MikeD. Just another fun thing to hear about in Knicks land.

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
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11/12/2009  6:31 PM
So, maybe I'm missing the point, but because the other big men selected are bombing out right now, it's okay Jordan Hill is a bum at the moment as well?

I sure hope I read that wrong.

For the record I wanted to use the pick to try to dump more salary given the only player we saw fit to draft filled a position we have covered already and by players we are going to possibly keep beyond 2010 at that.

So I was disappointed there.

I guess in hindsight we may say one day we should have risked Jennings, but, I wasn't convinced of him before the draft, and I'm not so sure about him now. Kind of a chucker at a poor % with a past history of poor attitude. Maybe he proves he can shake that off over time - thus - the future hindsight we might have of him. But for now, eh, I don't know.

As of now we certainly whiffed. Just because other teams whiffed doesn't make it alright. As of now we spent an asset on a player that hasn't shown he belonged in the 1st round to begin with. So, well, that hurts.

I would like to see Hill ACTUALLY PLAY however. We're 1-8. The season is already over to be honest. We have bums like Jeffries, guys not playing hard enough like Chandler and Lee, and guys who play hard but find a way to do as much wrong as right in Harrington.

So....we can't shave some minutes off those guys and get Hill out there?

Yeah, and we think Mike is going to give Curry enough burn to get into game shape and prove himself (so we can trade him).

http://popcornmachine.net/ A must-use tool for NBA stat junkies!
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