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Let's play Knick make believe....
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Bippity10
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8/12/2009  2:26 PM
Before I ask my question let me state my position. I am not a Walsh hatter or a Walsh lover. I am more like a Walsh waitt and seer. I am well aware of how low the Knicks had fallen and knew going in that this would be a long process of building a winner in NY. I am as impatient as anyone here and want the man to make some moves but I am also aware of his plan and will give him the reasonable time that he asked before I lose my gourd.

That being said, there are a lot of people that think Walsh has done a great job, and many that think he has done a horrible job. I tend to think he's done pretty well, considering in one year he's gotten rid of everyone that we wanted gone and replaced them all with short term soon to expire contracts. That being said I have a question for the hatters.

Let's play make believe.........Imagine if you will, Danilo Gallinari(substitute Jordan Hill if you like) turns into an absolute stud. At the same time Jordan Hill(substitute Gallinari if you like) turns into what appears to be a good player for the future. Remember we are playing make beleive.........Does that change your outlook for the Knicks and the job Walsh has done and the young cast he put together?

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JohnWallace44
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8/12/2009  2:30 PM
If the majority of Walsh's picks validate their draft positions, that would help, yes.

That would go for any GM.
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Bippity10
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8/12/2009  2:33 PM
Posted by JohnWallace44:

If the majority of Walsh's picks validate their draft positions, that would help, yes.

That would go for any GM.

Look at the question again;

"Does that change your outlook for the Knicks and the job Walsh has done and the young cast he put together?"

In other words, if these two guys, who's careers have not gotten started turn out to be good players does that all of sudden mean that Walsh has done a good job as GM?
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Bippity10
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8/12/2009  2:41 PM
Hmmmmm, nobody seems to want to take the Bip's bait on this one. Cowards!
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Knicksfan
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8/12/2009  2:46 PM
Walsh has done a good job so far. If the two players mentioned end up being solid players, it will only maintain that fact.
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Travla
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8/12/2009  2:49 PM
I think Walsh is doing a good job, it sometimes takes years for things to pan out. My outlook has always been to get better year by year. They won more games last year, I want more wins this year. Will they be a playoff team?, hard to say, depends on a few factors that are hard to discern. Should they win more games this year....Yes.
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Bippity10
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8/12/2009  2:51 PM
Posted by Knicksfan:

Walsh has done a good job so far. If the two players mentioned end up being solid players, it will only maintain that fact.

Hatters don't seem to want to address this. Why?
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Bippity10
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8/12/2009  2:52 PM
I don't want people who think he has done a good job, because of course if gallo and Hill do well you guys will think Walsh has done a great job. I want the hatters.
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NYKBocker
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8/12/2009  3:01 PM
Well. I also think The Godfather has done a fabulous job. The Gallo pick was the right pick. The 6th pick is the right spot for a high risk high reward player. Hill was ranked in the top 3 in a lot of mocks and supposedly a lot of team war rooms.
BasketballJones
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8/12/2009  3:01 PM
Before I answer, let me state my position. First of all, I am not a supporter or a non-supporter. I am a waiter. I will wait to see if Walsh is successful or not. If he is successful, I will be a supporter. If he is not, I will be a non-supporter. I feel very strongly about this, and no one is going to sway my strongly held opinion!
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Bippity10
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8/12/2009  3:03 PM
Posted by NYKBocker:

Well. I also think The Godfather has done a fabulous job. The Gallo pick was the right pick. The 6th pick is the right spot for a high risk high reward player. Hill was ranked in the top 3 in a lot of mocks and supposedly a lot of team war rooms.

Okay from the other direction. How do you know Gallo was the right pick? What if Hill was a bust? Say they both stink, does that change your opinion in the other direction? If they stink does it mean he has done a bad job?
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BasketballJones
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8/12/2009  3:06 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by NYKBocker:

Well. I also think The Godfather has done a fabulous job. The Gallo pick was the right pick. The 6th pick is the right spot for a high risk high reward player. Hill was ranked in the top 3 in a lot of mocks and supposedly a lot of team war rooms.

Okay from the other direction. How do you know Gallo was the right pick? What if Hill was a bust? Say they both stink, does that change your opinion in the other direction? If they stink does it mean he has done a bad job?

Let me answer that! Let me preface this by saying, that I am neither for nor against Gallo or Hill. I think that if either of these players does badly, he will be a bust. If, on the other hand, they do well, they will not be busts. Consequently, if they do not do well, it will mean that Donnie did a bad job. On the other hand, if they do well, Donnie will have done well. I feel very strongly about this.
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Bippity10
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8/12/2009  3:13 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by NYKBocker:

Well. I also think The Godfather has done a fabulous job. The Gallo pick was the right pick. The 6th pick is the right spot for a high risk high reward player. Hill was ranked in the top 3 in a lot of mocks and supposedly a lot of team war rooms.

Okay from the other direction. How do you know Gallo was the right pick? What if Hill was a bust? Say they both stink, does that change your opinion in the other direction? If they stink does it mean he has done a bad job?

Let me answer that! Let me preface this by saying, that I am neither for nor against Gallo or Hill. I think that if either of these players does badly, he will be a bust. If, on the other hand, they do well, they will not be busts. Consequently, if they do not do well, it will mean that Donnie did a bad job. On the other hand, if they do well, Donnie will have done well. I feel very strongly about this.

I know you are playing around but, that kind of gets to the point I'm trying to make. A lot of talking on this board, but in the end everything seems to depend on how our draft picks do. But they haven't played. So I'm just trying to get to the bottom of how people can conclude that he has done a good or bad job. In my mind the only thing he has done well is rid our team of some horrible, horrible contracts. Other than that everything seems to be incomplete. If Hill or Gallo turns out to be legit(god forbid both do) it changes our outlook on attracting free agents. If we can't sign a free agent we still would have a bright future. Add in Wilson and TD and you are all of sudden staring at a nice young up and coming team. Talk of 2009 free agents is forgotten. But if they bomb it's the exact opposite. So in the end Walsh's entire legacy seems to rest on these two players.
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BasketballJones
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8/12/2009  3:17 PM
Unfortunately, with GM's, you sort of have to give them 2-3 years to see if their plans will pan out. Especially in the types of situations that Layden, Thomas and now Walsh have been in.

We do have posters who have strong opinions about the GM's moves. For example, I think BRIGGs wanted different draft picks. It's fair game to criticize the GM based on those opinions IMO. I think we also have posters who basically don't believe the 2010 plan can work, so they're legitimately critical as well. In that case, you have to try to counter their arguments if you're a strong Walsh supporter, and at least with regard to draft picks, we really don't have much to go on.
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djsunyc
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8/12/2009  3:21 PM
walsh has dumped salary.
he has drafted a guy with a bad back.
his other 2 draft picks are tbd.
the best players on the team were here before he got to town.

gallo + hill + douglas are types of players that any gm could acquire.

conclusion? it's all about 2010 - nothing else matters.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 08-12-2009 3:22 PM]
Nalod
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8/12/2009  3:37 PM
I am neither, or either a lover or a hater. I am neither or either in favor of the studdlieness of Gallo or Hill.

AM am Ambivelant.

But I am still happy Isiah is gone and we have a very very good coach, a tried and proven GM who has a plan and is sticking to it and thus we have in place a formula that should provide a solid future.

Thus, I reduce into a warm fuzzy place in the back of the truck that has no Interns getting in, no Marbury's getting out and good people running the place.

White Chocolate, T-Hud, or Skita are not gonna make or break us, so in August I just leave it all out there and wait for the final roster.

Maybe I'll get my League pass again this year.
Bippity10
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8/12/2009  3:42 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:

Unfortunately, with GM's, you sort of have to give them 2-3 years to see if their plans will pan out. Especially in the types of situations that Layden, Thomas and now Walsh have been in.

We do have posters who have strong opinions about the GM's moves. For example, I think BRIGGs wanted different draft picks. It's fair game to criticize the GM based on those opinions IMO. I think we also have posters who basically don't believe the 2010 plan can work, so they're legitimately critical as well. In that case, you have to try to counter their arguments if you're a strong Walsh supporter, and at least with regard to draft picks, we really don't have much to go on.

DJ hit it on the head. It's all about 2010. If these guys don't develop and we don't get a free agent we are scareeeeeeewd. Walsh is a bumb. If these guys turn out to be players and/or we do get a big free-agent then Walsh is a genius. Just not sure about the absolutes at this point.

Criticism of Walsh's moves is par for the course. I just don't understand the absolutes 1 year into the regime. I thought I could get a true hatter to address the subject, but no one bit. Typical.
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BasketballJones
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8/12/2009  3:44 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by BasketballJones:

Unfortunately, with GM's, you sort of have to give them 2-3 years to see if their plans will pan out. Especially in the types of situations that Layden, Thomas and now Walsh have been in.

We do have posters who have strong opinions about the GM's moves. For example, I think BRIGGs wanted different draft picks. It's fair game to criticize the GM based on those opinions IMO. I think we also have posters who basically don't believe the 2010 plan can work, so they're legitimately critical as well. In that case, you have to try to counter their arguments if you're a strong Walsh supporter, and at least with regard to draft picks, we really don't have much to go on.

DJ hit it on the head. It's all about 2010. If these guys don't develop and we don't get a free agent we are scareeeeeeewd. Walsh is a bumb. If these guys turn out to be players and/or we do get a big free-agent then Walsh is a genius. Just not sure about the absolutes at this point.

Criticism of Walsh's moves is par for the course. I just don't understand the absolutes 1 year into the regime. I thought I could get a true hatter to address the subject, but no one bit. Typical.

The hatters are taking August off.

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Bippity10
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8/12/2009  3:44 PM
This thread was not supposed to be about whether you supported or did not support the regime. It was supposed to try to get to the bottom of why hatters truly hatt Walsh. If so much hinges on the unknown............
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TMS
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8/12/2009  3:45 PM
i'm a wait & seer too... i like the work Donnie's done getting the cap back under control again & like the fact he seems to have a plan in place & is following through on it... i like what i see out of Gallo & Hill so far but they are still works in progress, so the jury's still out... depending on what Donnie does w/D Lee & Nate's situations... if he can utilize those guys to get us back a usable asset or dump another bad contract off our books, then my opinion on the job Donnie's done will improve dramatically... if he does nothing & loses those guys for nothing i'm going to blame some of the people in this room, & that i do not forgive.
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