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Difference between a good club and a bad club
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BRIGGS
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8/1/2009  8:53 AM
Good club trades crp for young 22 SG with significant promise who fits well into their system Bellineli. Good team steals tier 1 FA from other good club


Bad team makes headlines looking for 32YO+ retreads with questionable character. Bad team get used by FA's. Bad teams looks indecisive because that's what they are. Bad teams treats their own good players like crp--other players in the league see this. Did this happen in the 90's No--Knicks rewarded good players and surround them with more good players.


Instead of F wasting time with these two older somewhat shot PGs with injury histories with ? character for a young team--go find me an Anthony Mason or a John Starks.


We have to many voices--what the Knicks needed was Bryan Colangelo--not 5 retread Gms who all have a view which seem to be different.

Dolan is such a F idiot--terrible manager of personnel.

I would fire ever F person associated with this team scouts our 9 GMs the idiot doctors who seem to make our players worse and give Gregg Popovich 10mm per year when his contract runs up this year and another 3-4mm to haev his GM come along and just say here is the job--get it done./
the Knicks needed to make a move for a Gregg Popovich or a Bryan Colangelo 5 years ago. There really are two moves that put us back on the map late 80 and into the 90s---Pat Riley and Pat Ewing--we have relied on retread LOSERS and has beens.

We never cleaned the house and we never got the one strong voice who knows what he is doing.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 08-01-2009 08:55 AM]

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 08-01-2009 08:56 AM]
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Bonn1997
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8/1/2009  9:14 AM
You say this like you're CERTAIN we won't add Sessions and like you forgot about the young players Walsh did add
BRIGGS
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8/1/2009  10:04 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:

You say this like you're CERTAIN we won't add Sessions and like you forgot about the young players Walsh did add

I have my concerns as any rightfully abused Knick fan. I would like someone to give me a cogent explanation on why we even want to look at Jason Williams? When I read we have the the negotiating rights to Jason Williams my neurons go on the fritz. Enjoy the beautiful day out
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orangeblobman
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8/1/2009  10:17 AM
BRIGGS, I hate to say it, but you're a negative nancy right now.

Give Donnie a break. Courting Tinsley is a shrewd move.
WE AIN'T NOWHERE WITH THIS BUM CHOKER IN CARMELO. GIVE ME STARKS'S 2-21 ANY DAY OVER THIS LACKLUSTER CLUSTEREFF.
Paladin55
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8/1/2009  11:27 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Bonn1997:

You say this like you're CERTAIN we won't add Sessions and like you forgot about the young players Walsh did add

I have my concerns as any rightfully abused Knick fan. I would like someone to give me a cogent explanation on why we even want to look at Jason Williams? When I read we have the the negotiating rights to Jason Williams my neurons go on the fritz. Enjoy the beautiful day out

It would seem strange to have Williams in for a workout, assuming that the Knicks are going to make an offer to Sessions that the Bucks can't match on Monday, but maybe Walsh is just doing his due diligence. You don't know what he told Williams. He might have told him that the Knicks would give him a look and if the Sessions deal does not go down, they will consider him. The Bucks have 7 days to match a Knick offer, and the Williams workout should fall between the time the Knicks make an offer to Sessions (hopefully) and the last day for the Bucks to match.

Seems like Walsh is doing what he has to do so he is prepared for anything that can happen. If Williams is not picked up, he becomes a(an?) UFA and goes on his way.

This thread is a bit early, IMO. Walsh is doing the right thing at this point.

[Edited by - Paladin55 on 08-01-2009 2:42 PM]
No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
BRIGGS
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8/1/2009  11:28 AM
Posted by orangeblobman:

BRIGGS, I hate to say it, but you're a negative nancy right now.

Give Donnie a break. Courting Tinsley is a shrewd move.

Explain to me what is shrewd about courting a 31 year old PG who has been injury prone for years ----shoots under 40% a poor 3 point shooting guard and has had a career marred with character problems. This is not shrewd--this is Isiah Thomas redux.

I'm sorry but I don't want my team made up with guys like this. This is a stop gap player--if that is the case just play Duhon and Douglas.
Duhon is better than Tinsley.

My goal for the team is to get good young players who can form a foundation.

I'm glad that we are going to have cap space but we don't need to be crazy over it--we could set it up for a max FA in 2010 and one more in 2011[If it's there--there can be a different route all together but that is another post/topic]. We should be able to operate like a normal team. We have all the space in the world to bring in a full MLE and still have max space in both 2010 and 2011. Ramon Sessions can be an all star player here. Jamal Tinsley will be lucky to play 1 year and last half of it chief.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 08-01-2009 11:35 AM]
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BRIGGS
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8/1/2009  11:33 AM
Posted by Paladin55:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Bonn1997:

You say this like you're CERTAIN we won't add Sessions and like you forgot about the young players Walsh did add

I have my concerns as any rightfully abused Knick fan. I would like someone to give me a cogent explanation on why we even want to look at Jason Williams? When I read we have the the negotiating rights to Jason Williams my neurons go on the fritz. Enjoy the beautiful day out

It would seem strange to have Williams in for a workout, assuming that the Knicks are going to make an offer to Sessions that the Bucks can't match on Monday, but maybe Walsh is just doing his due diligence. You don't know what he told William. He might have told him that the Knicks would give him a look and if the Sessions deal does not go down, they will consider him. The Bucks have 7 days to match a Knick offer, and the Williams workout should fall between the time the Knicks make an offer to Sessions (hopefully) and the last day for the Bucks to match.

Seems like Walsh is doing what he has to do so he is prepared for anything that can happen. If Williams is not picked up, he becomes a(an?) UFA and goes on his way.

This post is a bit early, IMO. Walsh is doing the right thing.

Im sorry but Jason Williams is not someone who can grow with this team--he's shot and old. How about 22 year old Mike Taylor? We have Chris Duhon--Chris represents a veteran who can handle the 30 minutes next year under contract--like I just said lets focus on getting another starks mason--maybe mike taylor is one of those guys--instead we are looking at the senior citizens retread group. I think Knick fans would be happier if we were looking at promising young players.
Both Jaml Tinsley and Williams represent stop gap--not team building.
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Knicksfan
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8/1/2009  11:53 AM
Briggs, you are jumping the gun because you love to do that. But if you go with everything media has said and guaranteed, we would have a whole different team by now. Donnie so far has had his plan set and has executed it to perfection, even if for us is boring for the lack of big news.
The Lee and Nate criticism is just garbage added to the argument. Given you talk about sound business, would you sign Lee and Nate to the money they want and thus showing love to them? Against the market? Come on.
This tri-PG situation is weird, yeah, but there is more smokescreen than actual interest in some of this players. JWill and Tinsley would be ideal for the 2010 plan, but Walsh is really considering changing that plan a bit and for that reason you will probably see Sessions in NY. If that doesn't happen, then let the hate spread around, but this reaction is premature.
Oh, and for the clubs comparison, that was weak as they are in different situations. Unfair comparison there.
Knicks_Fan
BRIGGS
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8/1/2009  12:21 PM
Posted by Knicksfan:

Briggs, you are jumping the gun because you love to do that. But if you go with everything media has said and guaranteed, we would have a whole different team by now. Donnie so far has had his plan set and has executed it to perfection, even if for us is boring for the lack of big news.
The Lee and Nate criticism is just garbage added to the argument. Given you talk about sound business, would you sign Lee and Nate to the money they want and thus showing love to them? Against the market? Come on.
This tri-PG situation is weird, yeah, but there is more smokescreen than actual interest in some of this players. JWill and Tinsley would be ideal for the 2010 plan, but Walsh is really considering changing that plan a bit and for that reason you will probably see Sessions in NY. If that doesn't happen, then let the hate spread around, but this reaction is premature.
Oh, and for the clubs comparison, that was weak as they are in different situations. Unfair comparison there.

If they offer Sessions less than full MLE--the haterade will be out.
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Bonn1997
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8/1/2009  12:23 PM
Tinsley is a very good play-maker. What if Eddy can play 20 mpg and Tinsley can create a lot of easy shots for Eddy? Yes, we're rebuilding. No, that doesn't imply that there must be zero veterans.
BRIGGS
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8/1/2009  12:32 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

Tinsley is a very good play-maker. What if Eddy can play 20 mpg and Tinsley can create a lot of easy shots for Eddy? Yes, we're rebuilding. No, that doesn't imply that there must be zero veterans.

I would sign Iversen light years before i took either of those two. If we cant get Sessions we should offer up a 1 year MLE to AI + sign Mike Taylor for the LLE and Skita for the min--if you are going to get a vet get the best. AI Duhon Taylor and Douglas are fine. Nate is done.
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orangeblobman
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8/1/2009  1:51 PM
Camby was injury prone into his early 30s, I think, or close to that age. And he righted the ship.

Tinsley is coming off a great, albeit short season and is only a year removed. The MDA style might rejuvenate him...he's only 31. I think, even given these circumstances, he is an upgrade on Chris Duhon and a good alternative to long-terming Sessions.

edit:

Signing Iversion is very silly. Just think about it.

[Edited by - orangeblobman on 08-01-2009 1:52 PM]
WE AIN'T NOWHERE WITH THIS BUM CHOKER IN CARMELO. GIVE ME STARKS'S 2-21 ANY DAY OVER THIS LACKLUSTER CLUSTEREFF.
Ira
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8/1/2009  1:58 PM
The logic behind signing Tinsley or Williams over Sessions is if you don't want to go for more than one year because of the cap space - which all depends on how you value Sessions.
PresIke
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8/1/2009  2:37 PM
i'm not following how walsh is necessarily indecisive as since last year he made several moves all geared towards CAP FLEXIBILITY:

- trade balkman who was deemed expendable not worth his salary given roster needs

- sign duhon to a 2 year deal

- trade craw for shorter deal harrington

- trade z-bo for shorter deals thomas & mobley

- trade thomas, (useless) big snacks + (horrific) roberson for hughes to temp fill sg hole + improve d (also clearing roster space)

- sign a bunch of cheap nbdl guys to see how they can do (crawford, sene, hunter, skita, almond, etc.)

- trade effectively useless q-brick for darko, who helps us in areas of team weakness + equal length deal not affecting 2010 cap status

- refuse to overpay for nate + lee by sitting and waiting out the market which has basically told them they are not worth what they/their agents' want for them

- tried to add vets (kidd, hill) who could help show the team how to win, but because of better situations on current teams + interest in having a shot at a title which knicks cannot offer real assurance of with ?? for knicks in a year + fact we will not be that good this year this makes us not all that attractive to them.

letting one's paranoia and fear dictate perspective is understandable given the history of the knicks, but it also doesn't mean that we as fans should panic because we haven't signed anyone yet.

many of these players we keep hearing about have not been signed. all it means is that we might be considering signing them given the options available and team needs.

if you are a business looking to hire someone you take a close look at all potential candidates. it's called being thorough, and doesn't mean the organization absolutely wants to hire all of the people they look at either.



[Edited by - PresIke on 08-01-2009 2:38 PM]

[Edited by - PresIke on 08-01-2009 2:39 PM]
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
CrushAlot
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8/1/2009  3:57 PM
I think the seperation of GM and Coach is important. Walsh has made moves with a goal in mind that reduced the teams potential to win in the present. D'Antoni wants to win now and I am sure some of the moves made have frustrated him. Signing Sessions really does not fit with Walsh's plan to have cap flexibility. D'Antoni wants Sessions but I don't see Walsh going there unless he is able to trade to get more cap space.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Papabear
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8/1/2009  4:24 PM
Papabear Says
5 years from now we will be in the same spot.
Papabear
GKFv2
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8/1/2009  5:25 PM
Posted by Papabear:

Papabear Says
5 years from now we will be in the same spot.

GKFv2 says

Papabear is Ms. Cleo. Do you charge for your fortune telling?

GKFv2
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
Bonn1997
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8/1/2009  7:16 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Bonn1997:

You say this like you're CERTAIN we won't add Sessions and like you forgot about the young players Walsh did add

I have my concerns as any rightfully abused Knick fan. I would like someone to give me a cogent explanation on why we even want to look at Jason Williams? When I read we have the the negotiating rights to Jason Williams my neurons go on the fritz. Enjoy the beautiful day out

Why do you think all 30 GMs have shown no interest in AI? Do they all combined know less than you do?
kam77
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8/1/2009  8:51 PM
Posted by Papabear:

Papabear Says
5 years from now we will be in the same spot.


nice 666th post!
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
fishmike
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8/1/2009  8:55 PM
good teams.... less players with stiff legs
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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