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Why is Heinrich necessary in a Lee S&T?
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purple012870
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7/29/2009  12:35 PM
Ty Thomas makes 4.7mm, throw in 2 guys that we would cut (Robersuck, Nelson would make 800k a piece) and your up to 6.3mm. 6.3mm times 125% = 7.875mm. Give us a lottery protected draft pick & we call it a day.

Now you have less cash spent, less committed for 2010, an athletic & perhaps better fit at PF for D'antoni.

Then, in terms of 2010, you have no issue w/ making a full MLE offer for Sessions. And you have this young nucleus:

PG: Sessions, Douglas
SG: Chandler, maybe N8
SF: Gallo
PF: Thomas, Hill could split between PF/C, maybe Skita
C: Hill, maybe Darko

That's a young, athletic, big nucleus to grow with.
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orangeblobman
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7/29/2009  12:58 PM
Yo I don't know what you be meaning with all the number. But Heinrich would thrive under Coach MDA.
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fishmike
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7/29/2009  1:00 PM
I would rather have Hinrich than Sessions. He's better. He plays D and can shoot and play both guard spots. He's heady and quick and the kind of gritty player I think we need there.

If you send Lee and JJ for Hinrich and parts you using less cap space than if you keep JJ and sign Sessions, plus I think Hinrich is just better in every way

Then your:
PG Hinrich
SG Hughes
SF Chandler
PF Lee
C Curry
with Nate, Harrington and Gallo off the bench. Maybe Douglas also if he's ready.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Rookie
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7/29/2009  1:13 PM
Posted by fishmike:

I would rather have Hinrich than Sessions. He's better. He plays D and can shoot and play both guard spots. He's heady and quick and the kind of gritty player I think we need there.

If you send Lee and JJ for Hinrich and parts you using less cap space than if you keep JJ and sign Sessions, plus I think Hinrich is just better in every way

Then your:
PG Hinrich
SG Hughes
SF Chandler
PF Lee
C Curry
with Nate, Harrington and Gallo off the bench. Maybe Douglas also if he's ready.

I thought Chicago is also positioning to have max cap space in 2010. Why would they take Jeffries?
McK1
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7/29/2009  1:14 PM
Posted by purple012870:

Ty Thomas makes 4.7mm, throw in 2 guys that we would cut (Robersuck, Nelson would make 800k a piece) and your up to 6.3mm. 6.3mm times 125% = 7.875mm. Give us a lottery protected draft pick & we call it a day.

BYC rules for Lee would not allow this trade as constructed to go through
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jimimou
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7/29/2009  1:26 PM
Posted by orangeblobman:

Yo I don't know what you be meaning with all the number. But Heinrich would thrive under Coach MDA.

not if the $'s to trade dont work out....thats why the #'s are important. why do you think he wld thrive under mda? what qualities? just curious to get your bball perspective on this.
purple012870
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7/29/2009  1:58 PM
Heinrich is heady, tough, can shoot, can pass (willingly) and has more talent to do all of the above than Duhon.
LivingLegend
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7/29/2009  2:07 PM
Posted by purple012870:

Ty Thomas makes 4.7mm, throw in 2 guys that we would cut (Robersuck, Nelson would make 800k a piece) and your up to 6.3mm. 6.3mm times 125% = 7.875mm. Give us a lottery protected draft pick & we call it a day.

Now you have less cash spent, less committed for 2010, an athletic & perhaps better fit at PF for D'antoni.

Then, in terms of 2010, you have no issue w/ making a full MLE offer for Sessions. And you have this young nucleus:

PG: Sessions, Douglas
SG: Chandler, maybe N8
SF: Gallo
PF: Thomas, Hill could split between PF/C, maybe Skita
C: Hill, maybe Darko

That's a young, athletic, big nucleus to grow with.

I believe the team trading with us can only give us back 50% of Lee's 1st year cost.

So if Thomas is at $4.7M -- the Bulls in theory would have to pay Lee $9.4M in year one and do a 1 for 1 trade.

Problem is do the Bulls want to take on all that salary without moving an equal amount back to us.

Personally - I'd be ok with a Lee for Thomas sign and trade straight up....at least I think I would. Not sure I'd want Heinrich.

EnySpree
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7/29/2009  2:14 PM
I'd love to get Hinrich....he's everything we want still fairly young and battle tested.

Its july 29th man....something has got to give.
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McK1
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7/29/2009  2:15 PM
Hinrich is another pg who spends most his time going east and west with the ball. his 3pt shooting and What he brings defensively doesn't offset his lack of creativity offensively enough to absorb that much salary for that many years.
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fishmike
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7/29/2009  2:50 PM
Posted by McK1:

Hinrich is another pg who spends most his time going east and west with the ball. his 3pt shooting and What he brings defensively doesn't offset his lack of creativity offensively enough to absorb that much salary for that many years.
we were talking about Kirk Hinrich.

I could see him quickly becoming an all star under MDA

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McK1
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7/29/2009  2:58 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by McK1:

Hinrich is another pg who spends most his time going east and west with the ball. his 3pt shooting and What he brings defensively doesn't offset his lack of creativity offensively enough to absorb that much salary for that many years.
we were talking about Kirk Hinrich.

I could see him quickly becoming an all star under MDA

so was i. His handles first step and court vision are average. He is a weak finisher at the rim. Other than that i see the potential
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fishmike
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7/29/2009  3:31 PM
well thats a little more of a constructive analysis which I will give you credit for.

He's not an above the rim player and isnt strong taking it to the rim

His court vision is solid. He's been in some pretty lame offenses, but when given the chance to push the ball he's great in the open floor. He's got a very good midrange game that forces defender to stay up on him. He's not going to trip guys up with a cross over or crazy moves with the ball.

I dont really view any of those as real weaknesses because of what he does well and how complete his games is

What he is is a fantastic passer with a very good shot from everywhere on the floor. He's quick passer and doesnt pound the ball. If you leave him space he will drill the jumper without hesitation. He's a natural BB player and is one of the tougher defenders in the league. Who is a better defensive PG? Billups? After Chauncey I would Hinie is as good as anyone.

He's a max effort team guy and just a good player in every way. His contract is reasonable and fronloaded so it goes down each of the last 3 years.

I would let Lee and Nate walk for nothing to keep my cap space and be fine if we added this guy. He could be the glue to make everything start to click.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Ira
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7/29/2009  4:03 PM
Posted by fishmike:

well thats a little more of a constructive analysis which I will give you credit for.

He's not an above the rim player and isnt strong taking it to the rim

His court vision is solid. He's been in some pretty lame offenses, but when given the chance to push the ball he's great in the open floor. He's got a very good midrange game that forces defender to stay up on him. He's not going to trip guys up with a cross over or crazy moves with the ball.

I dont really view any of those as real weaknesses because of what he does well and how complete his games is

What he is is a fantastic passer with a very good shot from everywhere on the floor. He's quick passer and doesnt pound the ball. If you leave him space he will drill the jumper without hesitation. He's a natural BB player and is one of the tougher defenders in the league. Who is a better defensive PG? Billups? After Chauncey I would Hinie is as good as anyone.

He's a max effort team guy and just a good player in every way. His contract is reasonable and fronloaded so it goes down each of the last 3 years.

I would let Lee and Nate walk for nothing to keep my cap space and be fine if we added this guy. He could be the glue to make everything start to click.

I think you summed it up quite well. His plusses (good court vision, good shot, strong d) outweigh his weaknesses (driving and finishing).
McK1
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7/29/2009  4:05 PM
i've never watched a bulls game and came away from it thinking Hinrich was a fantastic passer. He is another guy that drives and kicks for long jumpers. He is not a good interior passer and in transition he often pulls the ball out and sets up for a pull up 15-17 footer which he is only so so at instead of giving the guys filling the lane a chance to make a play at the rim. As for defense your love of billups is blinding you. He isn't number 1 defensively at the point guard and Hinrich definitely not number 2. They may try but they don't have the lateral quickness to stay in front of people or the athleticism to make up for getting beat. Off top Fisher Parker Rondo are all better. CP3 Kidd Davis i'd put ahead of them as well
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djsunyc
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7/29/2009  4:07 PM
i'll say it one more time - TRADE DUHON FOR TJ FORD...
crzymdups
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7/29/2009  4:07 PM
fish just likes hinrich's hairdo.
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fishmike
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7/29/2009  4:33 PM
Posted by McK1:

i've never watched a bulls game and came away from it thinking Hinrich was a fantastic passer. He is another guy that drives and kicks for long jumpers. He is not a good interior passer and in transition he often pulls the ball out and sets up for a pull up 15-17 footer which he is only so so at instead of giving the guys filling the lane a chance to make a play at the rim. As for defense your love of billups is blinding you. He isn't number 1 defensively at the point guard and Hinrich definitely not number 2. They may try but they don't have the lateral quickness to stay in front of people or the athleticism to make up for getting beat. Off top Fisher Parker Rondo are all better. CP3 Kidd Davis i'd put ahead of them as well
blind?

Kidd is done.. he cant guard me right now. He was great but if you think he's better than Billups or Hinrich right now your blind... you should watch current TV and not VHS tapes of old Nets and Suns games. Rondo had a great year. Hinrich has been all NBA defensive team just as many times as Rondo has... once. Billups was twice. Whoop de do. Of the PGs Billups, Hinrich, Paul and Rondo are the best right now, and Billups is as good as anyone.

Parker? Playing D and being good arent the same thing.

Love of Billups? Because I called Dumars out on what was a horrible horrible trade now I love Billups? He's a great player, Derek Harper part II. Not blinded by anything. Calling it like I see it.

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fishmike
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7/29/2009  4:36 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

fish just likes hinrich's hairdo.
hell no... If we were buddies I would get him drunk and buzz that mop. Its not manly
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BasketballJones
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7/29/2009  4:38 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

i'll say it one more time - TRADE DUHON FOR TJ FORD...

Aw, c'mon. Say it more than one more time.
https:// It's not so hard.
Why is Heinrich necessary in a Lee S&T?

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