Who are the other NBA players with minimal organized experience and what did their curve look like, how did they improve, etc? (We all have been critical of Hill to a degree and I wonder if it's fair to judge him as just another player - I don't think so.) My point is not that he is going to be a star, a flop or anything but rather can we really "see" Hill for what he "is".

I'm just wondering about this. Hill has 5 years of basketball experience and went from a nobody to a lottery pick in 5 years. I'm sure there are others and I wonder how their game translated. I know there have been some big centers to come along who didn't start playing till later on. I wonder if their curve of improvement was similar to Hill's. When we look at Hill I have the feeling we are looking at him as just another player, when in reality his 5 years of basketball experience is insane when you consider what you see.

Most of these guys have been playing since they are kids so when we watch Hill, we need to think to ourselves "This guy has been playing ball for like 5 years!". I bring this up cause when we compare Hill to other players taken after him (e.g. I liked Jennings) we need to consider that the picture we see as Hill was done in 5 years but for most other players it's like 10 or 15 years (I'd imagine).

Can we really see what we got in this cat considering his lack of experience? I think most of us can't, cause we look at players in the now and don't take into account their story, experience, etc.

Some thoughts:
Look at how sweet Hills jumper looks - done in 5 years.
He has touch - How many players get that in 5 years?
He is very active but has a lot to learn on the defensive end - all in 5 years.
He has some SWEET offensive moves - Some guys in the NBA have few after 15 years of bball.
Very good FT shooter - umm, in 5 years.
Rebounds very very well, albeit often more do to hustle than position.
Get where I'm going?
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jordan-Hill-1222/stats/

So far here are Hill's contemporaries:

Rafer Alson - Junior year at community college
Thabeet - Started playing 4 or 5 years ago (Clearly he is really really raw though.)
Amare - Started at 14
peja stojakovic - Started at 15
Duncan - High School

Not sure how many failures are out there, but didn't come across any yet.

Posted by earthmansurfer:

So far here are Hill's contemporaries:

Rafer Alson - Junior year at community college
Thabeet - Started playing 4 or 5 years ago (Clearly he is really really raw though.)
Amare - Started at 14
peja stojakovic - Started at 15
Duncan - High School

Not sure how many failures are out there, but didn't come across any yet.

Aside from Thabeet I find it hard to believe those other guys only picked up a basketball for the first time at those times. No way.

Usually people who pick up basketball so late in their lives are driven into it by someone else. Usually because they are tall.

Those players are usually uninspired for they don't love the game they view it as a job and only a job. See Eddy Curry for example.

I get that feeling from Jordan Hill. My frustrated tirade the other night aside I still stand by what I said and see in him and it's just not good. Kid has a LOT of work to do and has to really come into camp as a totally different person - or for christ's sake something resembling his scouting reports - for me to be impressed.

We have back-up PFs. Hell, we're starting a true back-up PF as our Center (Lee). Yet we needed Jordan Hill? A guy that has shown he probably can't even crack a rotation on a crappy team? Who shows at best maybe he's a journeyman backup PF? Come'on....what are we talking about here other than fans WANTING and trying to WILL Jordan Hill into something he clearly isn't even close to being?

This pick should have been traded. I've said it numerous times and I know I'm not alone. I certainly am not alone in being very disappointed in Jordan Hill.

Kid needs to do things he's probably incapable of the next few months to get me to back off my stance - that quite honestly - he sucks.

And, again, to defend my POV, this isn't a focus group, he isn't my kid, this isn't special needs learning here, this is a pro basketball team in disarray looking to climb back into the limelight, and I am a fan of said team and I want it to improve dramatically. Adding Jordan Hill and singing his praises when he butchered Summer League 4 out of 5 games - and in that 5th game still got murdered on one side of the ball - is ludicrous to me.

Dude needs to shape up and stop with the excuse that he's out of shape. Don't give me that GIVE ME EFFORT. And even then, again, why did we draft a raw player whose ceiling is probably backup PF?\

Alright, I am done, before I go back to ranting incoherently.

Posted by Cosmic:

Posted by earthmansurfer:

So far here are Hill's contemporaries:

Rafer Alson - Junior year at community college
Thabeet - Started playing 4 or 5 years ago (Clearly he is really really raw though.)
Amare - Started at 14
peja stojakovic - Started at 15
Duncan - High School

Not sure how many failures are out there, but didn't come across any yet.

Aside from Thabeet I find it hard to believe those other guys only picked up a basketball for the first time at those times. No way.

Usually people who pick up basketball so late in their lives are driven into it by someone else. Usually because they are tall.

Those players are usually uninspired for they don't love the game they view it as a job and only a job. See Eddy Curry for example.

I get that feeling from Jordan Hill. My frustrated tirade the other night aside I still stand by what I said and see in him and it's just not good. Kid has a LOT of work to do and has to really come into camp as a totally different person - or for christ's sake something resembling his scouting reports - for me to be impressed.

We have back-up PFs. Hell, we're starting a true back-up PF as our Center (Lee). Yet we needed Jordan Hill? A guy that has shown he probably can't even crack a rotation on a crappy team? Who shows at best maybe he's a journeyman backup PF? Come'on....what are we talking about here other than fans WANTING and trying to WILL Jordan Hill into something he clearly isn't even close to being?

This pick should have been traded. I've said it numerous times and I know I'm not alone. I certainly am not alone in being very disappointed in Jordan Hill.

Kid needs to do things he's probably incapable of the next few months to get me to back off my stance - that quite honestly - he sucks.

And, again, to defend my POV, this isn't a focus group, he isn't my kid, this isn't special needs learning here, this is a pro basketball team in disarray looking to climb back into the limelight, and I am a fan of said team and I want it to improve dramatically. Adding Jordan Hill and singing his praises when he butchered Summer League 4 out of 5 games - and in that 5th game still got murdered on one side of the ball - is ludicrous to me.

Dude needs to shape up and stop with the excuse that he's out of shape. Don't give me that GIVE ME EFFORT. And even then, again, why did we draft a raw player whose ceiling is probably backup PF?\

Alright, I am done, before I go back to ranting incoherently.

Guess I can say I felt (somewhat feel) your pain and that is why I started the thread. Clearly with the other threads started there is more pain going around. But to address your points.

I pulled those players names up from searching, I didn't verify the info people said so some of it could be off.

Hill got bored of baseball and tried bball and LOVED it. There are many many reports of his love for the game. He is an incredibly hard worker, after all that is how you put those numbers up (outside of athleticism). Cosmic, you can rest on he's doing it for the money. I read a recent quote by him along the lines of he is so lucky to get paid to play a game he loves.

Your next point makes the most sense to me. Even though he might have been the BPA, there was Jennings who you could definitely make the argument has more upside. But they probably didn't want to take a chance with him being a head case. I guess Lee for the right price is ok to have around. I see Hill as a center for whatever reason, though he has to put on weight to get there.

Come on, Hill didn't do so bad in the summer league. What I noticed was when the lane was crowded you could see he struggled, but in our offense, he will have more space to operate and with his athleticism, it should get interesting.
At least he got better as the summer league went along, but still, we are talking 5 games and the team was mostly atrocious, it was a "me" team. I did feel frustration at times during the summer league with him, but some of the things he did made me go "wow". He did that a fair amount, but I'll hold judgment till later.

I can't argue with trading the pick. But that is past. Being out of shape is no excuse, but it was true and you saw his legs coming back at the end of the summer league. He was just worn down I take it, let's see how things go.

Back to the point of my thread, when you watch him play it is amazing he has only been playing ball for the time he has. That is why I have some solace in the kid. HE is VERY good considering that. So, like I said before, we'll know in two years or so, as he just has this steep curve of constant improvement and I don't see that changing. He is making up for lost time, he is healthy, very athletic and has touch. His IQ is good, not great but he has heart and that is something that is nice to have around here for a change.

Posted by orangeblobman:

I started playing when I was 13

3 years experience. How is your game?

Well we are talking organized ball right???

Rafer Alston was a legend on the street circuit at the age of 15...he was killing peeps before that too. He played in tournaments and such...

Anyway...Hill is 21 years old...minus 5 means he started at 16? well I started playing at 12-13 and entered my first tournament at age 16...I never actually played organized ball of a high school or college (though I did make the bmcc squad, but got never played a game cuz of acedemics, fml)...

What matters to me is his love for the game. Hill loves to play basketball. He has alot to learn but he has given every indication that he is willing to put in the work. His post moves and the form on his jumper look great. He needs to continue to perfect those things...gain confidence where he isn't hesitant and takes what the defenses gives him cuz he has the ability to really put up numbers at his position. He's gotta learn to drive all the way to the basket. He has that quickness to do it but not the confidence....the coaching staff will take care of that...

if you ask me I think Hill is alot like Bosh and Zach...I think the dude can become a hybrid of the two. His face up game can be very Bosh like if eh works on it and his post moves already look like Zach's without the touch.

Very excited about this kid

Posted by earthmansurfer:

So far here are Hill's contemporaries:

Rafer Alson - Junior year at community college
Thabeet - Started playing 4 or 5 years ago (Clearly he is really really raw though.)
Amare - Started at 14
peja stojakovic - Started at 15
Duncan - High School

Not sure how many failures are out there, but didn't come across any yet.

So you have all the positive examples of players who started ball late, yet made it.

What you don't have is the list of players who started late, and aren't in the league. I have no idea who those players are, because they're not famous. And I am sure there are more than 5. In fact, I bet your list is the exceptions vs. the norm.

Rafer Alston grew up playing ball. He played on his HS team. He cut classes but showed up for games. He was a Queens kid who lived on the courts.

Posted by earthmansurfer:

So far here are Hill's contemporaries:

Rafer Alson - Junior year at community college
Thabeet - Started playing 4 or 5 years ago (Clearly he is really really raw though.)
Amare - Started at 14
peja stojakovic - Started at 15
Duncan - High School

Not sure how many failures are out there, but didn't come across any yet.

Why is everyone forgetting Hakeem? He started very late with basketball. He was playing Soccer when some one spotted him. Went to University of Houston and the rest was history.

Sprewell only played a year in HS. Don't forget Crawford. He barely played a year or 2 in HS, correct?

I'm getting a feeling that if Hill doesn't turn out well, it's time to go back to guys who have had a passion for the game since they were born.

Posted by Allanfan20:

Sprewell only played a year in HS. Don't forget Crawford. He barely played a year or 2 in HS, correct?

I'm getting a feeling that if Hill doesn't turn out well, it's time to go back to guys who have had a passion for the game since they were born.

Yeah, where the basketball popped out of the womb along with them.