As a basketball fan...you gotta love what you are seeing guys. I like to coach and scout while I'm watching...With that said I'm in love with our 2 draft picks!!! I don't see our players being out of shape.

One word: TIMING!!!

Toney is very good. I never saw him play outside of these Summer League games but he has shown he can play. For someone that hasn't played point guard at all in college, he looks like a very good point guard. He never gives up his dribble or jump in the air and get stuck. He doesn't telegraph passes...he's just a very good player. Clyde Frazier said he reminds him of Norman Nixon...that is freakin spot on!!! Norman Nixon has had more press off the court but he was a very good point guard. Damn good comparison especially from what i'm seeing...Toney has a veteran swag. I love it.

Now Jordan Hill is giving me a massive hard-on watching him play. I see 20pt scorer all the way!!! His timing is all off. On top of that he is going 100mph with the speed limit only being 65mph. OMG! Dudes his offensive potential is off the charts. First off from the face up "Triple Threat" position he can take a jab step in either direction. He can fake the drive and pull up from 20 ft out very cleanly. He can drive left or right, stop and pull up and get a very clean shot off. His moves inside are very quick. With his back to the defender he can make a turn around jumper. He can fake the turn around and drive baseline. He can turn in the lane and take it to the basket or shoot a clean fade away jumper in the lane....that is a big time move right there. He understands pivoting and attacking the defense. He is relentless...he just needs to keep that fury but slow down a few steps and just keep perfecting his moves cuz he has alot of scary scary scary moves....He plays alot like a very aggressive Pau Gasol. That is very good for the Knicks. I'm praying this kid can settle and believe in himself as a scorer. I'm very excited about him.

Morris Almond needs to get that camp invite. "Can he do something other than shoot?" Come on that's bull****. The dude can play. He's doing alot of nice things out there. Joe Crawford deserves another shot as well because he has shown some handle and fearlessness inside. Carter is another guy. He has nice skill but looks to be trying to play perfectly. He needs to relax cuz he can play. Ron Howard impressed me and Skeeter looks like a guy that could make the team. The rest of the guys are bums!!!!

well that is a very positive outlook on both of our picks. I tend to agree with pretty much everything you said. Toney seems like a veteran PG out there at times and with Hill, you can see the potential there, he just has a ways to go, to put it all together, but when he does, we will have a fine player on our hands..

too bad many of the fans on realgme don't have your patience or look at the game the same way... Since hill is not averaging 30/20 in SL, they are calling him a bust.... LOL.. go figure...

I was expecting to see a guard who shot well but was just beginning to learn how to play the point. While Douglas's timing was off, he'll get that back. The important thing is the guy has shown he's definitely ready to play point guard.

Hill, to me, looks like he needs time. He looks like he has the right idea out there, but he needs to get stronger and adjust to the size and pace of the league. Also, he needs to work on his shooting. I don't think he'll have a great rookie year, but I do think he'll develop into a good player. I think Gasol is a good comparison, but I don't think he'll be as good as Gasol.

After 2 Summer League games... my thought is scrubs. Hope I am wrong.

Posted by Ira:

I was expecting to see a guard who shot well but was just beginning to learn how to play the point. While Douglas's timing was off, he'll get that back. The important thing is the guy has shown he's definitely ready to play point guard.

Hill, to me, looks like he needs time. He looks like he has the right idea out there, but he needs to get stronger and adjust to the size and pace of the league. Also, he needs to work on his shooting. I don't think he'll have a great rookie year, but I do think he'll develop into a good player.

I agree with this for the most part. I was impressed with how Douglas just got out there and did it. The shooting will come for him I believe.

Hill though was not just raw but awkward. He will take time to develop. I keep reading and hearing how he has this great motor but to be honest I didn't really see that. He wasn't a sloth out there but I was expecting more energy wise. Remember how Balkman was insane in his SL debut? I was expecting energy of that level. Hill does not have that type of energy in fact he's much more passive than I expected given what I had read and heard.

I don't know what you can judge from two summer league games - but the players are out there and playing basketball so...it's reality here of what they are today. What they will be tomorrow is a different story.

For now I'm impressed with Douglas - seems better than what was scouted. I'm less impressed with Hill - seems worse than what was scouted. I'm impressed with Almond - he is what was scouted except he does more than the tag that was laid on him "He can shoot but nothing else." That doesn't seem true. Whether or not he's playing hard due to that comment - and whether or not he will or can maintain that mentality - I don't know. Donnie seems to hint he will be signed for this season however.

Posted by tkf:

Posted by EnySpree:

Posted by tkf:

well that is a very positive outlook on both of our picks. I tend to agree with pretty much everything you said. Toney seems like a veteran PG out there at times and with Hill, you can see the potential there, he just has a ways to go, to put it all together, but when he does, we will have a fine player on our hands..

too bad many of the fans on realgme don't have your patience or look at the game the same way... Since hill is not averaging 30/20 in SL, they are calling him a bust.... LOL.. go figure...

I see the Bust comments too....bull****. Clyde hit the nail on the head about Toney's shot and thats confidence. The rest of his game is on point. That jumpshot will fall and I predict he will hit double figure scoring in the next 3 games. People forget he is trying to show he can play point and he is playing a very good point guard right now.

I can't say enough about Jordan Hill bro...everytime he makes a move...the defense could crowd around or he could get blocked or fouled...I just get a massive hard-on. As soon as he calms down and finds the right speed to play he is gonna make us all happy. Right off the bat he has that accountability. He too the blame for the loss. Said the bigs including himself didn't play defense and he will "handle that" in the next game. He takes it personal and he shows the respect for the game I love to see. Fuck the non-sense about him just picking up the game a few years ago...he's not bum ass Thabeet. Jordan Hill is a skilled player. I'm happy the Knicks have him.

TKF do you see Pau Gasol in jordan hill? I see Amare a little minus the explosive jumping. I've see a similiar player but I can't call it right now.

not sure I see gasol in Hill,and maybe not amare as well, not sure who I see at this point... Plus amare is a different type of athlete. Hill can get up and explode for dunks, I saw plenty of that at Arizona.. I felt that hill needed another year at zona, I told his cousin that (who is a homie of mine). He agreed, but with his size and potential, there was no way he was going to slip out of lottery. I think hill's game has to catch up with his body, but he also does some things now, amare wasn't doing until his 3rd and 4th year in the league, and that is hitting the spot up jumper and the turnaround jumper.... When hill gets into the shape he feels he should be in and his timing comes back, we will see a different player...

Why is Hill "not in shape" and why does he seem so awkward to me out there? Why does he seem so much slower and so much more passive than reported? Does he have an injury we don't know about such as a muscle strain that is limiting him but not obvious? I just can't put my finger on it but I do know as of now I'm just not impressed. Not upset and not going to label him a bust but just not impressed. Seems much more raw, awkward, passive, and slower than I expected given what I had read. Was he overly built up to be something he isn't in the press?

So far he's done nothing to wow me...whereas Douglas absolutely has wowed me - where he seems to be playing far beyond what we were to expect of him already.

Some guys just gotta give these new kids a little slack.TD and Hill are just trying to hard. TD was a shooter in college and now hes trying to play point and shooting guard,he will be fine when he gets his proper role down.Hill is trying too hard but i see a post up player and a pop out shooter. I would say we have more potential in these guys that some posters think IMO

Love Toney Douglas at the point...as most have said. I have been praising him since we picked him #29. What amazes me about him is that he gets by his defender so easily. And then they collapse on him. He is not shooting very much like he did at FSU but dishing the ball back out to the open man for a 3 pt shot. I believe this is what the coaches have asked him to work on and do in the SL games and he is doing it tremendously well. He also plays a tenacious defense on the perimeter and picks up rebounds and loose balls very nicely and starts a fast break.

Hill has been disappointing so far but I think he will improve. With all of the hype about him, I was expecting a dominating inside presence. He hasn't been that. Coaches will have to work with him.....and I hope he/they start before he reports in to camp. He has all summer to work on his inside game. Forget the heavy lifting. Just light lifting is OK and learning basketball skills is more important. I agree with Eny that he has a very good jumper from 10 to 15 feet, good turn around moves, etc. But inside he can't put it up and finish in traffic. He seems to like to do a turn around, fade away jumper rather than go for the hoop. (I have only seen half of both games so I may have missed things?)

Almond - He looks like a decent all round player. Not great but should make the team. He definitely does more than shoot. He has an advantage as he has played in the NBA for 2 years (even with limited action, he has practiced with better players) and is showing a more relaxed and knowledge about the game.

The fact that Hill is out of shape is a big deal to me, and I think a lesson for Hill. Other guys are in very good shape for the SL - like TD, Almond, Crawford. They prepared themselves - they are more hungry to land a spot. I think Hill will rise up to be with this higher level of competition. But I wouldn't be surprised if he were included in some trade....depends on who else Donnie trades.

[Edited by - markji on 07-16-2009 10:00 AM]

Posted by EnySpree:

As a basketball fan...you gotta love what you are seeing guys. I like to coach and scout while I'm watching...With that said I'm in love with our 2 draft picks!!! I don't see our players being out of shape.

One word: TIMING!!!

Toney is very good. I never saw him play outside of these Summer League games but he has shown he can play. For someone that hasn't played point guard at all in college, he looks like a very good point guard. He never gives up his dribble or jump in the air and get stuck. He doesn't telegraph passes...he's just a very good player. Clyde Frazier said he reminds him of Norman Nixon...that is freakin spot on!!! Norman Nixon has had more press off the court but he was a very good point guard. Damn good comparison especially from what i'm seeing...Toney has a veteran swag. I love it.

Now Jordan Hill is giving me a massive hard-on watching him play. I see 20pt scorer all the way!!! His timing is all off. On top of that he is going 100mph with the speed limit only being 65mph. OMG! Dudes his offensive potential is off the charts. First off from the face up "Triple Threat" position he can take a jab step in either direction. He can fake the drive and pull up from 20 ft out very cleanly. He can drive left or right, stop and pull up and get a very clean shot off. His moves inside are very quick. With his back to the defender he can make a turn around jumper. He can fake the turn around and drive baseline. He can turn in the lane and take it to the basket or shoot a clean fade away jumper in the lane....that is a big time move right there. He understands pivoting and attacking the defense. He is relentless...he just needs to keep that fury but slow down a few steps and just keep perfecting his moves cuz he has alot of scary scary scary moves....He plays alot like a very aggressive Pau Gasol. That is very good for the Knicks. I'm praying this kid can settle and believe in himself as a scorer. I'm very excited about him.

Morris Almond needs to get that camp invite. "Can he do something other than shoot?" Come on that's bull****. The dude can play. He's doing alot of nice things out there. Joe Crawford deserves another shot as well because he has shown some handle and fearlessness inside. Carter is another guy. He has nice skill but looks to be trying to play perfectly. He needs to relax cuz he can play. Ron Howard impressed me and Skeeter looks like a guy that could make the team. The rest of the guys are bums!!!!

Good observation on Douglas. Norm Nixon comparison is quite good. I too am very impressed with ball handling skills and ability to break down his man. I read someone post that he is not looking finish and keeps dishing to the outside shooters. The reason he is passing to the outside shooters is because that is the right read. If he ever plays with DLee then you will see a lot of dunks. I am very pleased with Douglas right now. His shooting will come.

I never saw the Gasol comparison before but now that you have mentioned, I see the resemblance in their game. The only thing missing would be his ability to put the ball on the floor because Gasol has a good handle for a big man. I am very happy with this pick as well.

Almond looks like he belongs in the NBA. He can shoot and the finger roll he executed in one of the games was really pretty. His defense is suspect so he should fit in with this group.

By the way, TD has 21 assists in 2 games. Should have been more since some of the players were bricking their shots.

I wonder if we'll even consider cutting somebody like Hughes to keep one more of these guys.

I like Sene actually. He changes the game on defense in a way that no other Knick can.

Crawford is OK. Almond is OK. Skita is OK.

Korolev is completely unimpressive.

I like what I've seen from Douglas. He'll help next year, but will his discipline and defense end up being more of a plus than the minus of losing Nate.

Hill... eh... he'll do what he's supposed to do, but he's not going to change our fortunes. Much like the last Arizona forward we took in the Lottery, but with different skills.