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I am really curious to know what Nate should do differently to change the perception of him around here
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fishmike
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7/15/2009  9:11 AM
I mean.. news that he might play in Europe and guys around here are like good riddance. GFK guy seems to lead the hate, but more around here than most really seem to loathe the kid. I really cant get my head around it.

He's 25
He's a homegrown Knick
He loves playing here and wants to remain a Knick
He's gotten better every year. He's scored 9,10,12 and 17 points year by year.
He rebounds better than Eddie Curry and Tim Thomas combined
He plays hard
He's drasticly cut down on the idoicy and showboating. He still loves to play though and plays 'fun'
He's become a great backup PG as well as being a scorer off the bench
He hasnt made outlandish contract demands or badmouthed fans
He's got a the best +/- stats on the team
In the 11 games he started to fill in for Duhon or because of other injuries he averaged 21/5.5/5 and 1+ steals in 38 minutes

The bad?
Part of the Isiah regime
Not a good defender
He's not Ramon Sessions

I get his faults... I am not saying he's the next Chris Paul, but I think most around here dont even value him as a usefull player or part of this team as we try to improve.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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crzymdups
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7/15/2009  9:43 AM
i like nate - but he's too much of a defensive liability. i mean, clearly this is a view point the rest of the league has.

i would try to get him to sign to the QO though.
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Nalod
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7/15/2009  9:47 AM

Its what we need, not what nate is.

Stats don't tell the whole story.

He might have some personality traits that don't make him good chemistry both on and off the court. We need his output last year but I don't think he can play the point and I don't think having 5mm per year 5-7 SG is a good idea. He is fun to watch and very personable.

But is he a good fit for what we want????? A back up???? But I think you build around your cornerstones than back up players. He is more valuable on a winning team with an existing personality and leadership structure.
djsunyc
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7/15/2009  9:50 AM
only way to change knicks fans' perception is for him to be wearing another jersey...

grass is greener my friend...

the new shiny toy is toney douglas...
EwingsGlass
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7/15/2009  10:02 AM
I think that he can play really well, but (based on impression alone) he plays out of control when under pressure and the game is on the line. I have deja vu like memories of him rushing downcourt leaving his feet and having no place to pass or shoot the ball, creating a turnover and killing a rally or giving up the lead.

I think he is immensely talented and I think he has the ability to be a very good player in this league, I just don't think that he is my starting pg or sg on a championship squad. Until you have those players locked up, you cannot use up salary cap to re-sign 6th, 7th and 8th men.

AND saying he has the best plus/minus is really just saying he is less retarded than the other players we have (none of whom I am looking to give 2010 dollars to either).
You know I gonna spin wit it
McK1
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7/15/2009  10:08 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

only way to change knicks fans' perception is for him to be wearing another jersey...

grass is greener my friend...

the new shiny toy is toney douglas...

QFT
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
BasketballJones
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7/15/2009  10:12 AM
He could stop being so short.
https:// It's not so hard.
JayNYC
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7/15/2009  10:13 AM
Nate is good for what he is, in fact in terms of skill.. He is better than Duhon IMO... The problem is that he is not the quintessential point guard D'Antoni requires to run this team! When he's on the floor, the motion stops. Moreover, he is too erratic!

So in response to this topic.. Nate has to become a better creator, and decision maker on the floor. He has to make others better.. It's no doubt he can score, and is a semi-star for NYK but his perimeter D is nothing to brag about. He has learned to play the passing lanes better, but I'd expect more steals.. be a pesky defender ala Mugsy Bogues. Until Nate Robinson achieves those things, he will always be seen as a two-guard in a points body!

Thus, we'll continue to talk about Toney Douglas as a replacement.. BTW, 11 assist no turnovers from a guy touted in the draft as a combo, pretty impressive.

[Edited by - JayNYC on 07-15-2009 10:14 AM]
Inhale deep like the words of my breath/ I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death-- Circa 1994 Nasty Nas: NY State of Mind
djsunyc
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7/15/2009  10:18 AM
i'm sorry guys but how can you take stats from a summerleague game seriously? it's basically a huge pickup game full of players trying to make the team against many guys that are just not that good.

toney douglas has some good skills but nate right now is 200X the player douglas is b/c nate damn near dominates some games at the nba level.
Allanfan20
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7/15/2009  10:21 AM
I like Douglas a lot and he'll be helping us a lot in the future. But that doesn't mean we can't keep Nate. They are two different players.

If Nate can keep his emotions in check and put in more of a commitment to defense, he'll help us be a winner. Maybe more so than Lee.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
JayNYC
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7/15/2009  10:22 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

i'm sorry guys but how can you take stats from a summerleague game seriously? it's basically a huge pickup game full of players trying to make the team against many guys that are just not that good.

toney douglas has some good skills but nate right now is 200X the player douglas is b/c nate damn near dominates some games at the nba level.


It's not as much about stats as much as it is the way the player reacts to in game situations. Summer league or not, you can tell who understands how to play vs. someone that is raw. I beg to differ, I don't see Nate as being 200x better... especially when you look at the MDA system. Nate scores and is exciting w/ dunks... ok; does that make him more efficient? In my opinion, NO!
Inhale deep like the words of my breath/ I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death-- Circa 1994 Nasty Nas: NY State of Mind
djsunyc
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7/15/2009  10:25 AM
Posted by JayNYC:
Posted by djsunyc:

i'm sorry guys but how can you take stats from a summerleague game seriously? it's basically a huge pickup game full of players trying to make the team against many guys that are just not that good.

toney douglas has some good skills but nate right now is 200X the player douglas is b/c nate damn near dominates some games at the nba level.


It's not as much about stats as much as it is the way the player reacts to in game situations. Summer league or not, you can tell who understands how to play vs. someone that is raw. I beg to differ, I don't see Nate as being 200x better... especially when you look at the MDA system. Nate scores and is exciting w/ dunks... ok; does that make him more efficient? In my opinion, NO!

but my opinion is always RIGHT!!!

i just think nate gets the short end of the stick around here. the guy is a dominating presence on the court and can singlehandedly change the tempo of the game. not alot of players can do that. he's not a pg but neither he nor lee have played with any really good players. they need someone to make them better and put them in other roles.

toney douglas future is TBD. need to see some work against real nba teams.
Allanfan20
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7/15/2009  10:34 AM
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/nate_robinson/index.html

Nate is not efficient? I don't know why people say that. He's probably under 5'9". Maybe more like 5'7". He plays 30 minutes a game, controls the ball for a good portion of the time, yet he has less than two turnovers a game and shoots almost 44% from the field, which is very very very good for someone at his height. And that's with that enormous shooting slump he went through in February.

You can't ask for much efficiency from a sparkplug coming off the bench. He's a VERY GOOD player.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
EwingsGlass
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7/15/2009  10:34 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by JayNYC:
Posted by djsunyc:

i'm sorry guys but how can you take stats from a summerleague game seriously? it's basically a huge pickup game full of players trying to make the team against many guys that are just not that good.

toney douglas has some good skills but nate right now is 200X the player douglas is b/c nate damn near dominates some games at the nba level.


It's not as much about stats as much as it is the way the player reacts to in game situations. Summer league or not, you can tell who understands how to play vs. someone that is raw. I beg to differ, I don't see Nate as being 200x better... especially when you look at the MDA system. Nate scores and is exciting w/ dunks... ok; does that make him more efficient? In my opinion, NO!

but my opinion is always RIGHT!!!

i just think nate gets the short end of the stick around here. the guy is a dominating presence on the court and can singlehandedly change the tempo of the game. not alot of players can do that. he's not a pg but neither he nor lee have played with any really good players. they need someone to make them better and put them in other roles.

toney douglas future is TBD. need to see some work against real nba teams.

I agree he can change the tempo of the game, but he also creates and kills runs. He is a bit chaotic out there and needs to play a bit more controlled ball. I like letting him run havoc on other teams, but not when alienating other teammates by dominating the ball. He is a great 6th or 7th man when he can be a burst off the bench, but you pick your 6th or 7th man after you have the starting 5.
You know I gonna spin wit it
JayNYC
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7/15/2009  10:37 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by JayNYC:
Posted by djsunyc:

i'm sorry guys but how can you take stats from a summerleague game seriously? it's basically a huge pickup game full of players trying to make the team against many guys that are just not that good.

toney douglas has some good skills but nate right now is 200X the player douglas is b/c nate damn near dominates some games at the nba level.


It's not as much about stats as much as it is the way the player reacts to in game situations. Summer league or not, you can tell who understands how to play vs. someone that is raw. I beg to differ, I don't see Nate as being 200x better... especially when you look at the MDA system. Nate scores and is exciting w/ dunks... ok; does that make him more efficient? In my opinion, NO!

but my opinion is always RIGHT!!!

i just think nate gets the short end of the stick around here. the guy is a dominating presence on the court and can singlehandedly change the tempo of the game. not alot of players can do that. he's not a pg but neither he nor lee have played with any really good players. they need someone to make them better and put them in other roles.

toney douglas future is TBD. need to see some work against real nba teams.

My opinion isn't always RIGHT!!! I'd assume that yours isn't either.

Bottom line is this, Lee and Nate are both good... They have influence on the game, but will not make this team WINNERS! Can they contribute?, absolutely... but are they replaceable OF COURSE! You said it, both players "need someone to make them better and put them in other roles."

Ok, so that sounds like an issue with the coach? MDA has his philosophy on the way his team should be run, I don't know about you???.. but from what I know about playing ball.. its up to the player to buy into the system, then a role can be established. Ideally, MDA would like to see his 5'7 POINT GUARD orchestrate. With David Lee, it isn't a question of role? Clearly they value what he brings to the game.. The issue is money! He isn't a 10 mil per player... again IMO. (Heck, I might even go as far as sayin in their opinion as well.. does he have an offer above 7.5 yet?)





[Edited by - JayNYC on 07-15-2009 10:47 AM]
Inhale deep like the words of my breath/ I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death-- Circa 1994 Nasty Nas: NY State of Mind
Knicksfan
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7/15/2009  10:49 AM
Nate is one of my fav players of NY, but that isn't saying a lot right now. He has the talent to be a star 6th man ala Ginobili. The problem is that his edge, his attitude, is also his problem. If he could find a way to maintain his intensity while refraining himself from the many mental mistakes he makes, he would be excellent.

I hope he stays in NY at the right price. I really like him. But NY needs so many pieces that he may end up being traded to get is closer to having a better team. If that happens, so be it. Bye Nate.
Knicks_Fan
Cosmic
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7/15/2009  11:08 AM
He needs to stop being an immature prick something we thought was improving but apparently hasn't.
He needs to stop gunning away with no conscience unless he actually plans on shooting a higher percentage again.
He needs to stop ignoring certain teammates just because he wants to jack a prayer.

Honestly, I love Nate, but the way he froze out teammates last season - something that has gotten worse (despite increasing his assists) - and after watching his 3PT shooting go down the drain (40% as a rook, dropped ever since, now 32%, while taking ever more every year) - I soured on thinking he was worth more than 4M a year off the bench.

He had that wild stretch last season and he does put up some big games but let's be realistic here: He is another case of a player who gets his but doesn't win you games and doesn't make his teammates better.

Until this changes he will not be a winner no matter how tough he is out there. He's entering his fifth season by the way - what you see is what you get - and unfortunately personality wise it's probably what you see is what you get - and that's not winning basketball.

http://popcornmachine.net/ A must-use tool for NBA stat junkies!
BasketballJones
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7/15/2009  11:15 AM
He could wear a different uniform.
https:// It's not so hard.
McK1
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7/15/2009  11:18 AM
a year from now Nate-

wins a 6th man award

makes first play-off appearance my guess is with the Heat AND
has a Ben Jordan like shooting display thru out a 7 game series

comes back to NY appears on Letterman, plays some ball in the city

chuckles while delusional fans who said good riddance rejoice in knowing it wouldn't have happened had he stayed in NY
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
misterearl
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7/15/2009  11:58 AM
Pure Acid

"He needs to stop being an immature prick"

Just curious why it is necessary to invoke a demeaning body reference?

"He needs to stop ignoring certain teammates just because he wants to jack a prayer."

Nate is a cancer.

once a knick always a knick
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I am really curious to know what Nate should do differently to change the perception of him around here
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