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4 Smart People Think Toney Douglas will flourish in the NBA.
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rvwink
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6/29/2009  10:46 PM
Four smart people really liked Toney Douglas. Clearly D'Antoni and Walsh are the first two and Coach K is number three. Coach K apparently thought Toney Douglas was the most valuable player in his conference, instead of Ty Lawson. The fourth guy is David Falk. Douglas is the only player David Falk's is representing in this years draft. He doesn't need the money and more, thanks to representing players like Michael Jordon, and I get the idea that he wouldn't go out on a limb and predict big things for Toney Douglas if he didn't believe it. He he was a bench player, I don't think he would waste his time with him. I don't include myself in the four smart people, but I have listened to some interviews and spent some time researching things on the net, and I too really like Toney Doublas.

First, he is the fastest player in the NBA draft in the 3 quarter court dash. (7th fastest on record.) Second he is strong. I didn't look extensively but he managed 15 repetitions and 14 was the highest I saw otherwise for a guard. He also prides himself on being tough and he is dedicated to playing defense. Despite being only 6'2", Toney was the most valuable defensive player in his conference. Part of the reason was his excellent wingspan. He is a student of the game which helps him average about 2 steals a game for his college career.

The scouting reports say that his assists averages are too low, and the number of incompleted passes was too high. They also say he is a shoot first player, who is too small to play shooting guard and not a good enough passer to play point guard. Also because he spent 5 years in college, due to transfering, Toney is 23, another negative.

Toney knew based on his height that he needed to be a point guard to make the NBA. Unfortunately in his first year at Auburn, the coach that recruited him left, and the replacement insisted on playing him at shooting guard. He tried to turn to the draft after his freshment year, but was persuaded otherwise. One consequence was that his scholarship was canceled at Auburn and so he needed to transfer and chose Florida State. The next two years, Florida State had other people playing the point, so again, he didn't get the experience he wanted playing point guard. Only in his senior year, did he get the experience he wanted playing point. Another negative for Toney is that his overall assist numbers are not attractive, but Toney needed to be the leading scorer for the team averaging 20 points a game, and so he simply couldn't be a pass first point guard. He succeeded in his goal to take Florida State to the NCAA tournament, something the Gators hadn't done for a number of years.

Toney's favorite player is Joe Dumars. I think he is near the size of Chancey Billups and like David Faulk I believe he has the potential to be a winner in the NBA despite his size and other shortcomings. For those that like Nate Robinson, I think Toney Douglas has made it time for him to leave. I expect him to make the Knick's active rotation in his rookie year. He has a long wingspan, and with his defensive prowess and lateral speed, I think he will be able to guard 6'4" or even 6'5" shooting guards effectively, and get significant playing time at the two guard positions, unless the Knick's draft another point guard, and make Chris Duhon a backup, in which case I still think Toney Douglas will thrive as a backup shooting guard.
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Markji
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6/29/2009  11:02 PM
Good post.

I also like Toney Douglas and think he was a steal at #29. In addition to your points, I get the feeling that he is a winner and thrives on competition.

Being 23 years old I feel is a plus. He is mature and has gained a lot of experience playing in the best and most competitive college basketball conference. He has had time for his body to fully develop and to fine tune his abilities before coming into the NBA. You know what you are getting with him while with many 19 year olds, you know they have potential, but you don't know how that will pan out.

A little point - FSU are the Seminoles. The Univ of Florida (their arch rival) are The Gators.

[Edited by - markji on 06-29-2009 10:05 PM]
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Nalod
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6/29/2009  11:05 PM
I saw his florida team play a few times on TV via ACC conf. games and the team had a simple philosophy which was just give him the ball! He was a one man band.

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BRIGGS
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6/29/2009  11:10 PM
I wouldve rather saved the 4mm$ and just signed Jerel McNeal as a FA. Jerel is taller 10 pounds heavier has a longer wingspan is much more athletic--plays bigger. There is no skill that Douglas is superior on the court.
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nixluva
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6/29/2009  11:12 PM
Douglas intrigues me most due to his defensive skills. We know he can score, but to get a guard that was acknowledged for being the best defensive player in his conference is a good thing. He actually wants to be known for his defense!!! Remember that Walsh said he was looking for a two way guard, so this shows he was actively looking for a guy like Douglas and he was able to get him.
EnySpree
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6/29/2009  11:57 PM
I'm very excited about Toney Douglas as well....the Knicks need a break.

I think Toney Douglas plays a lot like Vinnie Johnson...Vinnie was a tough dude that could score with anyone, play defense and play point guard.....he backed up Isiah and Dumar for their championship run (and he's from Bushwich Brooklyn!!!). I think Toney can be exactly like him and I freak hope he can.
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buddapaw
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6/30/2009  12:03 AM
Well to be honest I never heard of this guy until they called his name on draft night, so excuse me if I don't fluttery and tingly inside.
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TMS
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6/30/2009  12:15 AM
on behalf of nyk4ever, PresIke & McK1, i present to you:

http://ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=31473&page=5



REGULATORS!!! MOUNT UP & MOVE OUT!
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izybx
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6/30/2009  3:40 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

I wouldve rather saved the 4mm$ and just signed Jerel McNeal as a FA. Jerel is taller 10 pounds heavier has a longer wingspan is much more athletic--plays bigger. There is no skill that Douglas is superior on the court.

Are you serious? I feel as if the Knicks had signed Jerel Mcneal as a FA you would make a post saying they should have bought the 29th pick and drafted Toney Douglas
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Ira
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6/30/2009  6:32 AM
How could the Knicks know that Jerel McNeal wouldn't get drafted?
earthmansurfer
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6/30/2009  7:14 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

I wouldve rather saved the 4mm$ and just signed Jerel McNeal as a FA. Jerel is taller 10 pounds heavier has a longer wingspan is much more athletic--plays bigger. There is no skill that Douglas is superior on the court.

If he wasn't drafted can't we sign him to our summer league team? I'm not familiar with his game at all, but after reading up on and watching some video of Douglas I have to say I'm curious as to what he can do in this system. Especially when he is on the floor with Hill and Gallinari who both play defense (or at least try).
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metra
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6/30/2009  8:16 AM
Out of the 4 you listed seems like only one non-biased. Coach K.
WOODMANnYk
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6/30/2009  8:57 AM
After it's all said and done 12 yrs from now, Toney Douglas will still be in the NBA, RUBIO will not..
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nyk4ever
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6/30/2009  9:18 AM
Posted by TMS:

on behalf of nyk4ever, PresIke & McK1, i present to you:

http://ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=31473&page=5



REGULATORS!!! MOUNT UP & MOVE OUT!

LOL, thats awesome.

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rvwink
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6/30/2009  9:11 PM
"I wouldve rather saved the 4mm$ and just signed Jerel McNeal as a FA. Jerel is taller 10 pounds heavier has a longer wingspan is much more athletic--plays bigger."

Toney Douglas is listed as a point guard. This year, he made all of the players on his team better. Jerel McNeal, on the other hand, is listed as a shooting guard. He therefore lacks the versatility that Toney Douglas has of being able to play contribute at two positions. While he is a good player, I don't think Jerel inspired the other players on his team the way Toney Douglas did.

"There is no skill that Douglas is superior on the court." Toney is stronger and faster than Jerel and he plays better defense and distributes the ball better. (Jerel's off ball defense was criticized in the Draft Express review.) Toney's height is less of an issue because he projects primarily as a point guard. While Jerel's is taller, his height is more of an issue as he projects primarily as a shooting guard.

I think you pay alot of attention to a player's size and what kind of an athlete he is. You appear to be less interested in keeping track of a player's intangibles. Toney Douglas has amazing intangibles. He lost his scholarship at his first college, and didn't give up. He didn't get to play point guard for the first two years of his second college and again didn't give up. In his senior year he raised the quality of his game and got his team into the NCAA tournament. He set his mind to succeeding and found a way to get drafted in the first round despite being undersized, and not having enough time playing point guard. Its inspiring that he found a way to achieve his goals despite bad breaks.
rvwink
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6/30/2009  9:22 PM
"Out of the 4 you listed seems like only one non-biased. Coach K."

What are you talking about? Don't you think D'Antoni and Walsh objectively loved what Toney Douglas offered? They decided they wouldn't use the pick they had bought, if Toney Douglas wasn't there when they chose. They were going to sell the pick for a pick in next year's draft. They wouldn't go to the owner to get permission to spend the money for a second 1st round draft pick, if they weren't really sold on Toney's potential. David Falk is independently wealthy and the money he will earn representing Toney Douglas is quite unimportant. He had no real financial incentive to say the things he did about Toney Douglas, if he didn't believe they were true imo. The money is less important than protecting his reputation at this point in his career.
BRIGGS
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6/30/2009  9:58 PM
Posted by rvwink:

"I wouldve rather saved the 4mm$ and just signed Jerel McNeal as a FA. Jerel is taller 10 pounds heavier has a longer wingspan is much more athletic--plays bigger."

Toney Douglas is listed as a point guard. This year, he made all of the players on his team better. Jerel McNeal, on the other hand, is listed as a shooting guard. He therefore lacks the versatility that Toney Douglas has of being able to play contribute at two positions. While he is a good player, I don't think Jerel inspired the other players on his team the way Toney Douglas did.

"There is no skill that Douglas is superior on the court." Toney is stronger and faster than Jerel and he plays better defense and distributes the ball better. (Jerel's off ball defense was criticized in the Draft Express review.) Toney's height is less of an issue because he projects primarily as a point guard. While Jerel's is taller, his height is more of an issue as he projects primarily as a shooting guard.

I think you pay alot of attention to a player's size and what kind of an athlete he is. You appear to be less interested in keeping track of a player's intangibles. Toney Douglas has amazing intangibles. He lost his scholarship at his first college, and didn't give up. He didn't get to play point guard for the first two years of his second college and again didn't give up. In his senior year he raised the quality of his game and got his team into the NCAA tournament. He set his mind to succeeding and found a way to get drafted in the first round despite being undersized, and not having enough time playing point guard. Its inspiring that he found a way to achieve his goals despite bad breaks.



Jerel Mcneal is the same type of player as Douglas but he is longer stronger and more athletic. Douglas is no pure PG--have you ever seen him play? These guys are both pure combo guards. Nothing else to say and I don't know how you say otherwise. That was VERY expensive to spend 4mm on him there.
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Ira
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6/30/2009  10:46 PM
In the 2005 draft, David Lee was the last player we took in that draft, but turned out to be the best. In this draft, I think Toney Douglas will turn out to be our best selection.
BRIGGS
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6/30/2009  10:50 PM
Posted by Ira:

In the 2005 draft, David Lee was the last player we took in that draft, but turned out to be the best. In this draft, I think Toney Douglas will turn out to be our best selection.

Too small and not athletic enough. And if he is better than Hill we get an F for the draft anyway.
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VDesai
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7/1/2009  12:48 AM
Toney Douglas is the kind of guy who sticks b/c he has the desire to out work whoever he is matching up against. He won't always outplay them, but he is the kind of player that will always put forth a good effort.

I see him really being a defensive spark for us, and I think he'll be a lot more efficent with his face up J and coming off screens here. Take the pressure off of him being the first and only scorer, and I see a lot of areas in his skillset where he can help this team
4 Smart People Think Toney Douglas will flourish in the NBA.

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