I agree name recognition isn't there. I think not having a big time program in NYC area hurts Name recognition in the NY area. I grew up in the St. John's era when Mullen, Berry, Mark Jackson were big time. With that came knowing everyone, from Hakeem, Jordan, Ewing, Sampson and so on. Right now just to many games go on and you can't watch all the games before it was something to look forward to. Ewing vs Sampson, Ewing vs Perkins. The infestation of HS kids didn't help college basketball either. Now you are starting to get some recognition back but no where is it near the 80's or the early 90's. I agree that 2 year college wait should be implemented. I'm ok with the 1 year wait but that isn't enough time to get name recognition going. If a player is good in his freshman year he leaves.

Posted by orangeblobman:

WASP? news flash, there hasn't been many true WASPs for several generations. you're talking about a non-existent entity here, buddy. i know it must suck for me to break it to you like this.

briggs, 20 year min? that has nothing to do with why fans are turned off nor does it have anything to do with the quality. i feel that the age limits are in place for one reason only and that is to uphold the ncaa product line.

tattoos and rampant amoral behavior is the problem. who the heck wants to turn on a tv and see a person with 205820938520385209385203958209385 inks on their body? a few tasteful ones are much easier to take.

So there are no tattoos and rampant amoral behavior in other sports? I don't hear the same people complaining about the issue. Stop kidding yourself. It is more to it and frankly Stern has stopped trying to please a certain segment of this country. The guy is marketing his sport on a global market now. They told him not to move his sport to cable and the guy laugh because he knows how else will foreign markets and MTV generation get to see his sport on a regular occassion. They don't watch network television anymore. Stern is marketing to a different brand of consumers.

Posted by CrushAlot:

I don't think Stern's style of marketing has changed much. He attempts to make a few players bigger than life and hopes that they end up in the finals against each other. The current guys are Kobe and Lebron. There are alot of less knowledgeable NBA fans who say they are not watching the playoffs until it is the Lakers and Cavs/Kobe and Lebron. That marketing was going on throughout the entire Jordan era. I used to find that many of the NBA commentators were not knowledgable about the players, teams, style of play etc. and I hated watching some broadcasts for that reason. I think TNT and ESPN have put together some good, knowledgable broadcasters this year.

Nothing wrong about it. Sport is about individuals. Especially skilled sport like bbal.
And it is a show; with bad guys and good guys. Are you telling me that fans will lose interest because of brawls, tattoos, crazy plays and crazy guys?
Come on - they will come in bunches to see the SHOW.
What fans doesn't want to see are lazy overpaid booms; corrupted officials, bags of sh..t like Isiah Tomas, idiotic owners like Mr. Jimmy, etc.
Game is fine and players are OK. The crowd of clowns parasitizing on NBA is offensive and annoying.





[Edited by - arkrud on 05-23-2009 2:24 PM]

Posted by holfresh:

I can't imagine what has occurred in basketball with brawls and tattoos is worse than the widespread use of steroids in baseball and football

the steroids testing policy in the NBA is by far the weakest & worse enforced policy among the 3 major sports in this country... this is from this website URL:

http://news.findlaw.com/legalnews/sports/drugs/policy/basketball/index.html

D. Testing of Veteran Players

Veteran players can be tested once during training camp, or, if a player reports during the season or with less than 15 days remaining in training camp, once during the first 15 days after he reports to his team. All such tests are at the discretion of the NBA and without prior notice to the player.


Discipline:

If a player tests positive for steroids for the first time during Reasonable Cause Testing, First-Year Testing, or Veteran Testing, the player will be suspended for five games and will be required to enter the program. A second positive test for steroids will result in a ten-game suspension and the player's re-entry into the program. A third (or any subsequent) positive test for steroids will result in a twenty-five game suspension and the player's re-entry into the program. A player will be dismissed and disqualified from the NBA if he is convicted of, or pleads guilty, no contest or nolo contendre to, a crime involving the use or possession of steroids.

so veteran players CAN be tested a max of 2 times per season, & at the latest 15 days after reporting to his team at the start of training camp? & the penalties are nothing compared to the ones given out in MLB & the NFL if you even get caught as this site explains it... there's no way that some major players aren't using roids in the NBA... seems like it's a lot easier to get away with it in the NBA.

Posted by TMS:

Posted by holfresh:

I can't imagine what has occurred in basketball with brawls and tattoos is worse than the widespread use of steroids in baseball and football

the steroids testing policy in the NBA is by far the weakest & worse enforced policy among the 3 major sports in this country... this is from this website URL:

http://news.findlaw.com/legalnews/sports/drugs/policy/basketball/index.html

D. Testing of Veteran Players

Veteran players can be tested once during training camp, or, if a player reports during the season or with less than 15 days remaining in training camp, once during the first 15 days after he reports to his team. All such tests are at the discretion of the NBA and without prior notice to the player.


Discipline:

If a player tests positive for steroids for the first time during Reasonable Cause Testing, First-Year Testing, or Veteran Testing, the player will be suspended for five games and will be required to enter the program. A second positive test for steroids will result in a ten-game suspension and the player's re-entry into the program. A third (or any subsequent) positive test for steroids will result in a twenty-five game suspension and the player's re-entry into the program. A player will be dismissed and disqualified from the NBA if he is convicted of, or pleads guilty, no contest or nolo contendre to, a crime involving the use or possession of steroids.

so veteran players CAN be tested a max of 2 times per season, & at the latest 15 days after reporting to his team at the start of training camp? & the penalties are nothing compared to the ones given out in MLB & the NFL if you even get caught as this site explains it... there's no way that some major players aren't using roids in the NBA... seems like it's a lot easier to get away with it in the NBA.

The reason why testing and penalties are more severe in those sports is because it's more widespread...I'm won't sit here and say no NBA player is using steroids but who has been caught???..I remember one guy admitting use...Saying you are sure some major players are using doesn't make it so...You can read countless stories of steroid use that goes back to the Steelers back in the 70's where their offensive line were all juiced...I can't prove this either but I can't see steroids helping NBA players the way it would help MLB players and NFL players where more physical strength is needed...Basketball is a finesse game...If Manny got caught and Papi just hit his first home run of the season, everyone is using in baseball....

Posted by CrushAlot:

I disagree about basketball being about individuals. I think it is all about teams and teamwork. At this point I don't know if there is an individual on the Knicks that I would follow if he was traded to another team. I personally have always identified with a team and have looked at team match ups. I think there are individual match ups at positions that are exciting (i.e. Ewing vs. Shaq or Hakeem or Mourning) but it is all in the scheme of the team. A game like basketball that requires a flow and chemistry between five guys at both ends of the floor is about team first. My point was that the NBA markets individuals. In my opinion that strategy might bring in the casual fan to watch a Sunday game or a game 7 but it isn't going turn that fan into a hoops junkie. The people that say they aren't watching because of tattoos and fights wouldn't be watching anyway.

Yes, the bbal game is about the team...
But this is not what today’s NBA is marketing.
And this is not what NBA culture is about any more.
It's all me, me, me... stats, jerseys, tattoos, cool cars and big mentions, celebs, scandals, dirty deals, game fixing, etc.
Professional sport is more and more just another type of show business.
And the only solution for fans get used to it and enjoy the ride.

Good talking points on both sides. I think the league suffers when immature athletes can't deliver despite physical gifts.

Tats don't really turn off too many but its not about "Wasps" or youth, its about who pays the bills. You have to cater to who buys the expensive seats and buys advertising. so yeah, its honkey and his honkey money.

Its also the black exec who got money. The black attorney, the black docter, and the blac family too!

Look at denver, they get rid of Iverson the fist posterboy for hip hop and swap him for Billups who by example influences melo and JR to step up and be a real pro and look all of a sudden they are in the conf. finals! Melo grew up and is having more success. JR smith is rounding his game also. Are these guys selling out or just acting professional?

Maybe guys like Bynum can grow into their bodies without the rigors of 100 game season and tough travel schedule.

But you can't deny a 19 a living, so while its better for them to wait, the money will still bring the kids in.

i think it's sorta naive to assume no major players aren't using banned substances when it seems so easy to schedule your cycles or drug fetishes during the season after training camp breaks when the league won't even test the vets 15 days after reporting to camp... there's millions & millions of dollars at stake here & all it takes is a precursory glance at some of the physiques these guys are sporting these days compared to how players looked back in the day... chiselled freaks like Karl Malone were a much rarer commodity back then compared to now... i believe Samaki Walker was caught for a banned substance in '02 & only got a 5 game suspension... if a scrub like him is using you have to believe there are some bigger names out there using too... Shaq tested positive once for cocaine during the Olympics & he used some lame poppy seed muffin excuse to explain it away according to this article... come on Shaq, if it was that easy to explain a positive cocaine test don't u think everyone who tests positive for it would use the same excuse?

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=1460012&type=news

Posted by holfresh:

Today's players train year round as apposed to players back in the day...Better nutrition and workout routines can get a better fit body...Steroids can help too...But I will hold my judgment until the first guy who lost his NBA fortune writes a tell all book about the rampant use of steroids in the NBA...I'll wait until testing actually catch users as well...

or hgh or creatine...